OcUK Health Seekers: Post your progress pics

[Morba]

No point talking to them unless they look like they are going to injure you or someone else.
Even when it comes to injury to themselves a lot of people just ignore you still.

Nevermind

 

[Ultra_Extreme]

There are a number of young lads started on gear down my gym and im finding it hard to stop myself laughing at them every day. They load up the bench press with 100 kg press it 6 to 8 inches down with there mate spotting it and back up, just why. Load up the leg press and press that 5 inches, squat to a 8 inch depth. Sick of trying to explain to them all you get back is well im growing. Boys will be boys, even some of the more hard core juice boys are a weak as kittens. I like been old and strong.

Its sad that that is the general perception, perhaps reality, of juicing. But i dont think its any more fair to lump everyone who needles in the same boat any more than it is to lump all natty lifters in the same bracket.

 

[zuludawn]

Funny thing is that they look at me as if im stupid because i do 8 to 12 sets on bench, but im natural and benching 180kg plus, i wonder why?

 

[LiE]

Because you've put in the time

 

[Ultra_Extreme]

nobody should ever look at anyone benching big as if they are stupid, since if they bench higher than you then whatever it is they are doing is working. Some assumptions are being made here tho, you have no idea if they juice or if they are just idiot kids. You dont really know what they are thinking when they look at you, could be respect, quite easy to assume the worst in people.

 

[Morba]

Because they think you are on better gear than them

 

[Ultra_Extreme]

lol probs, spose in some way thats the biggest shame, you tend to assume the best natty's are just average juicers, become jaded and probs dont have as much respect for those who deserve it the most

 

[icecold]

Back OT, Ice - I'd almost switch teams... almost.

I can wait...

The sad reality is its a combination of what monkee says and typical mentalities of lifters. Juicers by their very nature lack the work ethic of a natty, at least in general and they certainly dont NEED to be as meticulous about their diet (i stress NEED they SHOULD but many dont). Weight loss is easier as you get strong thermo from test, muscle is never lost on cycle give or take, even if you starved yourself you would retain a lot of mass. Training itself is easier, you gain mass constantly, numbers go up every week of a cycle no question sometimes in large jumps. Everything becomes mechanical, effort + food + rest = gains, very linear gains that are continuous week on week.

When it comes to relative strength within a weight category steroids do far less, you need a naturally good CNS and many other natural genetic advantages (or few genetic weaknesses) in order to be "strong for your weight". Steroids will only help at the top end >100kg where mass can go mad. Otherwise its all short duration 'cheat' compounds like mTren that can boost lifting capacity by over 20% almost instantly. This is the side of juicing i hate as its plain cheating.

Personally? I have poor genetics for powerlifting, very oestrogen dominant, long bones, natural propensity for fat retention. Im 28 yrs old and i want to be reasonably big and compete in some strongman before i get old and die. I dont want to look back and regret what i achieved in weight training, im prepared to go the decent lengths to get where i want and i do not believe the risks associated with steroid use are as severe or likely as the masses believe. I work very hard, people i train and train with are all natty and they leave the gym destroyed, whilst achieving much more than many in less time. I work harder and longer because i can. Is it easier? Not really. But the return on investment is far better.

This sums up some of my thoughts on the matter.

Idiots are idiots whether they're on steroids or not, and sometimes this gives juicers a bad reputation beyond what they deserve. For example, UE would only be doing something wrong if he competed in a natty strongman comp. On the other side of that coin, I know a guy who fits the violent moron steroid user stereotype perfectly. Yes, it's a lot harder to get big and strong natty, but beyond a certain point (health risks and cheating taken into account), so what?

The pros and cons of natty vs juiced can be discussed endlessly, but something I believe is that someone shouldn't be held back by from something they want to do because of something as arbitrary as their genes.

This may sound like I'm advocating usage, but I'm really not. My layman's knowledge of it tells me it's a risk to ones health, it seems like a lot of hassle, and think people should look to exhaust their natural potential first. My personal goals are to push myself to my absolute limit, and that will take bloody ages.

 

[Freefaller]

You still make gains in your 40s (albeit less quickly)... as such I shall carry on pushing myself, and I will force my body to exceed it's natural potential

Having met some amazing strong older men, they're muscle density and physiques were astounding - they just said, 20 years of hard work got me here - good on you sir, good on you.

 

[zuludawn]

I always advise people only to take gear if they are going to compete and take body building up as a sport and not a hobby. As a lad i was a massive user but saying that i was regularly competing in both body building and weight lifting. Add to this the risks just for casual use and the gains become obsolete, my personal steroid usage caused me, enlarged heart, joint and tendon problems, three and a half hour full chest reconstruction twenty years after usage (loose skin and deep Gynecomastia under the muscle tissue). All well and good when you are young its in the later years when it hits you.

Plus as a massive warning, all the gear in those days was sourced from the Eastern block countries at the time when most sports people where using it, ie the good stuff. These days i have seen it been sold in a plastic bag of 100 tabs etc, could be anything. If injected it must be in one use viles if its real, any multi use viles or bottles are either fake or mixed with something else.

There are risks dont let anyone kid you into thinking its all safe, especially with some of the crap that is been sold out there.

 

[icecold]

Absolutely, not being "young" is not an excuse to not push yourself. I'm probably never going to stop, I don't understand why anyone would.

 

[zuludawn]

Absolutely, not being "young" is not an excuse to not push yourself. I'm probably never going to stop, I don't understand why anyone would.

My training partner is 68 and he can bench 140 kg and trains with me if i want to do 15 sets or what ever and he is just an average 6" 2 build 14 stone. We do an hour and a half 5 times a week sorted!

 

[Freefaller]

Agreed Zulu - the importance of getting blood work done, and keeping an eye on levels is so critical. However it's the long term damage that it can potentially cause - sure doing just the one "go" at it is unlikely to cause issues, however, there's no point, and all it'll do is make you realise what you can achieve by getting unnatural help - which will screw up with your mind even more and make you more depressed you're not at the level you want to be or can be.

 

[Steedie]

Guys.....Some people want to juice, some people don't

Let's get back to the homo erotic pictures

 

[stiv121]

I don't see the point in juicing or wanting to juice. It doesn't really seem worth it and it will never be as satisfying as making natural progress because you will always know that you 'Cheated' in a way. From my point of view the cons greatly out weight the pros... Isn't the point in getting fitter/stronger so that you are more healthy and live a better life? Where as juicing can cause quite serious problems later on.

 

[Steedie]

I don't see the point in juicing or wanting to juice. It doesn't really seem worth it and it will never be as satisfying as making natural progress because you will always know that you 'Cheated' in a way.

Yes it will, and no it won't

I just typed out a huge post about how this cheating mentality towards gear is infuriating but stopped myself, but I will say that it's amazing that so many people have that attitude towards gear, yet I guarantee if they were given the chance to earn money more easily than anyone else with an unfair advantage, they would. Or if someone told them they could have 100bhp on their car for not much extra effort, they'd not turn it down. But because it's gear, and there is this stigma, people just jump on the bandwagon and cheat. The ironic thing is, we're on an overclocking forum where we're getting extra performance for nothing, yet in the context of another hobby, it's suddenly so so bad

I know full well that the people who are doing steroids properly and doing it for the right reasons work as hard or harder than anyone on this board, but no one see's that because they automatically assume that the second you put that needle in you, you gain size without trying. Yes that's possible, to get bigger without the work of a natty guy, but those guys look like crap most of the time and never see any benefit, as they just lose all their size in the PCT stage anyway

It's not cheating, it's just using something that's available to better yourself. If they are competing in natural shows or competitions, then yes, that's cheating. But if they're not, then who really is at harm? Other than your ego because you're no longer the biggest guy in the gym

 

[stiv121]

I see the point you are making. A lot of people at the top of their game use them properly and use them to try and take themselves further I have respect for them. Sadly they have all been thrown into a category together with the people that use them improperly to get a quick fix and act like utter asses. As long as it doesn't affect me I don't really care what other people are putting into their bodies.

I also agree that the health issues involved with taking them can be compared to that of drinking and smoking which are legal drugs which cause just as much harm to you or more but they are legal so people see them as being as bad.

It's just my personal opinion that they are dangerous and I don't want to be putting something into my body which could cause damage. I don't smoke and I only occasionally take alcohol. In moderation it may be fine I just don't want to risk it

 

[wedgie]

Yes it will, and no it won't

I just typed out a huge post about how this cheating mentality towards gear is infuriating but stopped myself, but I will say that it's amazing that so many people have that attitude towards gear, yet I guarantee if they were given the chance to earn money more easily than anyone else with an unfair advantage, they would. Or if someone told them they could have 100bhp on their car for not much extra effort, they'd not turn it down. But because it's gear, and there is this stigma, people just jump on the bandwagon and cheat. The ironic thing is, we're on an overclocking forum where we're getting extra performance for nothing, yet in the context of another hobby, it's suddenly so so bad

I know full well that the people who are doing steroids properly and doing it for the right reasons work as hard or harder than anyone on this board, but no one see's that because they automatically assume that the second you put that needle in you, you gain size without trying. Yes that's possible, to get bigger without the work of a natty guy, but those guys look like crap most of the time and never see any benefit, as they just lose all their size in the PCT stage anyway

It's not cheating, it's just using something that's available to better yourself. If they are competing in natural shows or competitions, then yes, that's cheating. But if they're not, then who really is at harm? Other than your ego because you're no longer the biggest guy in the gym

Steroids aren't cheating, unless you're in a competion where you're expected to be natural. For most regular people that use them, it's either a short cut, or they use them when they're big enough to 'need' them.

If someone has grown pretty large over the years, so what if a couple cycles he did in the past contributed to that, to your average person what difference does it really make?

Although I do agree, show me two guys of comparable size, one natural, one aided and yeah I'll be slightly more impressed with the natural guy, but does the other guy really care? He'll probably think yeah but I did it in 2/3's of the time. That's the thing, to some people training is all about the end goal, the journey doesn't really matter. Some take pride in staying natural, that's fine too, nothing wrong with either imo.

It's best to not even bother discussing them with most people though, what the average person actually knows on the topic could be written on a pinhead, and the stigma will always be there, thanks to stuff like this -

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...led-testicles-True-cost-of-steroid-abuse.html

They weren't kidding when they called it steroid abuse....

Moron 1 took steroids every day from the age of 16 to 34.

Moron 2 took orals only between 2002-2008, started on 3 tabs a day and within weeks was eating 15. He then 'moved on' to injections in 2008.

Moron 3's first cycle lasted 6 months and he then wondered why he was shut down after his second cycle bombed.

I mean come on, every one of those is slightly lucky to even be alive after that kind of use. Your typical user knows how to do it properly, is aware of the sides, takes the necessary precautions and takes the required steps post cycle.

If people mess up badly with steroids, the gear is no more to blame than the glue is from some idiot that died sniffing it. Morons will be morons.

 

[Freefaller]

If it's for self fulfillment it's not cheating at all I agree. Well maybe cheating yourself, but youngsters these days (like the members of this forum) are easily swept up in these sort of decisions for the sake of vanity and for a quick win. Long term it's always going to be a foolish path to go (IMO).

However, whilst I will lose a bit of respect in people's achievements, I won't lose respect or trust or friendship to those that do go that way as I know they'll be honest with me. I won't judge, I may be disappointed in their decisions, but I know that the effort required is still there - but you can get away with a lot less "perfection" and less effort if the person wants to as well. That's the sort of joy of steroids, you can get away with training like a a bicep monkey and still grow, and have no nutritional education, or just go SUPPS FTW OMGLOL!!!!111

It's a dark taboo world, and I think it's a shame that people want to go that way - it's their choice, and they can look back 20 years from now and question their decision.

A lot of people here have some form of body image issue, I think it's the reason why a lot of people go to the gym on here. If I'm honest initially I think I was like that 10 years ago, but then I just couldn't really give a **** as long a I was strong, and made progress and got better at lifting weights, and as long as I enjoyed it and had fun.

I'm not interested enough to put synthetic chemicals into my body to artificially help my body grow, and affect part of my body's natural balance/levels. Our bodies are designed to work a certain way, I'm not going to mess with it. Sure, it's well researched, and steroids were designed to help people who suffered atrophy and muscle wastage - but for recreational purposes?! No thanks - just like smoking to me - I see no long term benefits, short term, yes, long term no.

It's a MASSIVE decision, i.e. bigger than who do I shoot first, my mother or my father (well maybe not quite ), and I'm sure those that have decided they want to go that route have thought long and hard, and are not doing so lightly. People die every year from substance abuse (including steroids) but thousands use them with no ill effects (long term effects are debateable as Zulu has highlighted). Those that are going that route will research it, speak to their GPs about it, monitor their blood pressure, lipid levels and all other bloods during their cycle - and if they don't do that then more fool them - it's like overclocking your PC without any temperature monitors (to continue the analogy.) you'd be a fool not to monitor yourself.

So let's get back to the point, it's their choice, they've made an informed decision - we don't all agree about them (I certainly don't) - however I consider a few members here good friends, and I will support them as friends, but not their decisions.

 

[Morba]

I always advise people only to take gear if they are going to compete and take body building up as a sport and not a hobby. As a lad i was a massive user but saying that i was regularly competing in both body building and weight lifting. Add to this the risks just for casual use and the gains become obsolete, my personal steroid usage caused me, enlarged heart, joint and tendon problems, three and a half hour full chest reconstruction twenty years after usage (loose skin and deep Gynecomastia under the muscle tissue). All well and good when you are young its in the later years when it hits you.

Plus as a massive warning, all the gear in those days was sourced from the Eastern block countries at the time when most sports people where using it, ie the good stuff. These days i have seen it been sold in a plastic bag of 100 tabs etc, could be anything. If injected it must be in one use viles if its real, any multi use viles or bottles are either fake or mixed with something else.

There are risks dont let anyone kid you into thinking its all safe, especially with some of the crap that is been sold out there.

Do you class yourself as natural now? When was the last time you cycled?