Soldato
OcUK Health Seekers: Post your progress pics
- Thread starter Freefaller
- Start date
I'm not taking anything away from you, as irrespective of that you've had to train hard, and eat well and know your stuff. And for that, I have a lot of respect, and I'm not denying any of the work you've done.
It is my duty as an older person, to ensure that the younger more impressionable people realise what is / isn't achievable naturally, and that's the only reason I pointed out your background.
Of course, I did add my bias, which is for non use of gear.What I also respect is that you've admitted it and not pretending you haven't - and you're into bodybuilding and trying to compete - and for that I also have respect.
We all have different aims, but it doesn't change my opinion 
Good luck though and look forward to seeing how you get on.
Caporegime
Defo keeps us posted, if anything, do a comp-prep log or something
I'm not bitter about it at all. However, I can now understand better why you're so defiant and defensive about it.
I honestly don't care what people do to themselves - I personally think it's daft, but it's not my body. AS I've said many times before, you still need to work hard, both in the gym and on your diet to get the gains - I've never denied that.
Ultimately it's down to people's choice and I'm still entitled to disapprove. As far as I'm concerned, it is a big no no.
Caporegime
That's because you have bear genetics.
Us stick insects need extra work. (me that is)
Us stick insects need extra work. (me that is)
Soldato
I was just as adamant before I started on this though. I'm not defiant, just defensive. Defensive of anyone being looked down on because they're pushing things to the absolute max. I dislike people frauding as much as you do, claiming they're not on gear when they are. In fact I think there's someone on these boards that is! I just know that doing a cycle does not make you blow up massively, and their hard work should never be underestimated because of their path.
I've never undermined the hard work - I undermine the decision. I think it's foolish, and pointless. However, I'm not obsessed with size, or competing, or aesthetics, and as such I fear that people do use them for the wrong reasons.
The problem is all the famous bodybuilders are monitored around the clock by doctors, and have accepted the long term impact of exogenous testosterone will do to them.
I just think it's a shame people do drugs - I do not poo poo the work that goes behind the work if they achieve it, I just think it's a myopic attitude.
Of course this is one sided as I don't train for the same things as a lot of people - well not any more. I do not suffer from my body dismorphia any more, and my strength and health has improved. I see it as a vicious cycle (lol), and just worry that people won't be able to get out of them. If I'm brutally honest, I worry about people I consider my friends damaging themselves for a few years of "high life".
Lastly, I really don't like how the overly casual use is portrayed - rather than the actual usage is a BIG deal, with significant long term thought behind it, and doing it for the right reasons.
Anyway, we've both said our peace - just be careful all of you and stay safe.
The problem is all the famous bodybuilders are monitored around the clock by doctors, and have accepted the long term impact of exogenous testosterone will do to them.
I just think it's a shame people do drugs - I do not poo poo the work that goes behind the work if they achieve it, I just think it's a myopic attitude.
Of course this is one sided as I don't train for the same things as a lot of people - well not any more. I do not suffer from my body dismorphia any more, and my strength and health has improved. I see it as a vicious cycle (lol), and just worry that people won't be able to get out of them. If I'm brutally honest, I worry about people I consider my friends damaging themselves for a few years of "high life".
Lastly, I really don't like how the overly casual use is portrayed - rather than the actual usage is a BIG deal, with significant long term thought behind it, and doing it for the right reasons.
Anyway, we've both said our peace - just be careful all of you and stay safe.
I may have slightly better genetics than you - but I still have to work just as hard to keep myself in shape and so on. It's not a reason to dive into messing about with your body's hormones - especially when the impact is a lot bigger than people realise (not just on health, but mental health and others around them). What do you do when you get back to your "normal" size? Start using them again? There are so many cause and effect factors...
Man of Honour
What long term impact? There have been no long term studies on steroids. So how can you know what that impact is?
So yes, they accept there is a risk but there is a risk with most things in life it would seem if you listen to the news or read enough about them. Steroids if done responsibly and with enough education aren't the danger the media make them out to be.
Sure if done properly can help to mitigate the long term risks - but there are so many people that are treated every year for abuse - sure, it's like any drug, abuse is abuse. I know that. However, let us be clear - you're adding artificial amounts of hormones into your body - for a start if that doesn't strike you as a little bit counter intuitive then I'm already worried.
The major proponents are professionals with on the call doctors able to look after them, take regular blood tests, and offer medication to counter act symptoms and ailments - they are not to be used for a controlled experiment. Furthermore, we cannot write off congenital issues. Lastly, there are the psychological implications, what happens when you come off, dependency, and the amplification of any psychological shortfalls people may or may not be aware of.
Then the practical side of things, inter cellular & organ haemorrhaging, stresses on the heart, liver and kidneys, osteoporosis, blood pressure issues are just scratching the surface. Sure, I accept these are only potential symptoms and issues as not everyone is the same, and not every body responds in exactly the same way. Somewhat anecdotally, my cousin works in the States as an endocrinologist has had to prescribe lifetime supplies of drugs to keep people alive from having either taken the wrong gear or where their body's have had issues with them - ok, I know this is an exception but still, makes you think. Fact is, lots of people have had issues long term, lots of people have had the time of their lives. I'm not willing to take that risk, you're artificially raising the level of hormones in your body - to me there's something fundamentally queer (in the old sense of the word) about that.
Also, there's something quite morbid to me about doing it to - something a little grotesque.
The major proponents are professionals with on the call doctors able to look after them, take regular blood tests, and offer medication to counter act symptoms and ailments - they are not to be used for a controlled experiment. Furthermore, we cannot write off congenital issues. Lastly, there are the psychological implications, what happens when you come off, dependency, and the amplification of any psychological shortfalls people may or may not be aware of.
Then the practical side of things, inter cellular & organ haemorrhaging, stresses on the heart, liver and kidneys, osteoporosis, blood pressure issues are just scratching the surface. Sure, I accept these are only potential symptoms and issues as not everyone is the same, and not every body responds in exactly the same way. Somewhat anecdotally, my cousin works in the States as an endocrinologist has had to prescribe lifetime supplies of drugs to keep people alive from having either taken the wrong gear or where their body's have had issues with them - ok, I know this is an exception but still, makes you think. Fact is, lots of people have had issues long term, lots of people have had the time of their lives. I'm not willing to take that risk, you're artificially raising the level of hormones in your body - to me there's something fundamentally queer (in the old sense of the word) about that.
Also, there's something quite morbid to me about doing it to - something a little grotesque.
Man of Honour
Yeah I totally agree with you, people who abuse them and take ridiculous doses are in for all sorts of problems later on.
But I think, for example, say a couple of 12 week cycles a year of just test at a sensible dosage, would be more than safe. And that's all I'd be willing to ever do, the problem comes with people who stay on year round, or "blast and cruise" and never coming off just staying on at a lower dose or adding all sorts of compounds in.
But I think, for example, say a couple of 12 week cycles a year of just test at a sensible dosage, would be more than safe. And that's all I'd be willing to ever do, the problem comes with people who stay on year round, or "blast and cruise" and never coming off just staying on at a lower dose or adding all sorts of compounds in.
Associate
- Joined
- 2 Sep 2011
- Posts
- 114
Agreed. "Blasting and cruising" is pretty silly in my opinion as it means you're own testosterone production is shut down for stupid mounts of time which obviously isn't a good thing. Pro bodybuilders choose to do so however as it's clearly the best way to consistently build muscle. Most "cruise" dosages are still in excess of 4x the naturally produced amount so they're still benefiting from the artificial hormone. In the long term though who knows what it does to their endocrine system. I would only ever do 10-14 week cycles and have as much time off as I do on. I've been off gear for 2 months now and plan to stay off till March.
As far as you know a 12 week cycle would be safe, to be fair, as far as we both know really. You cannot guarantee that no negative impacts will occur - besides, the though of a needle going in... *shudders*
Also, there's a huge psychological impact which goes beyond just the product, and has longer term, and potentially much larger/significant long term issues (potentially). How you're perceived, how you perceive yourself and how you react to the changes and the hormonal changes in your body too - it's not to be dismissed. The physical damage may well be less or as you say non existent (potentially) but there are more factors. Heck even just getting an abscess or hitting blood vessels... there's a lot to consider.
For me, it's the increased potential risk in getting physical problems irrespective of long term or short term use. I accept and realise that a 1 off cycle in your whole life is unlikely to cause anything, but there is still potential - I'm not willing to take that risk
Also, it would be having to deal with potentially losing a the gains and going backwards which I think a lot of people would struggle with and not cope with.
Also, there's a huge psychological impact which goes beyond just the product, and has longer term, and potentially much larger/significant long term issues (potentially). How you're perceived, how you perceive yourself and how you react to the changes and the hormonal changes in your body too - it's not to be dismissed. The physical damage may well be less or as you say non existent (potentially) but there are more factors. Heck even just getting an abscess or hitting blood vessels... there's a lot to consider.
For me, it's the increased potential risk in getting physical problems irrespective of long term or short term use. I accept and realise that a 1 off cycle in your whole life is unlikely to cause anything, but there is still potential - I'm not willing to take that risk
Also, it would be having to deal with potentially losing a the gains and going backwards which I think a lot of people would struggle with and not cope with.
Caporegime
It's pretty much the whole needle aspect of it that irks me. Popping a pill or two I could do, but playing with needles I just wouldn't, but that's because I'm a cluts.
Popping pills is even more problematic - and definitely does have immediate inflammation/swelling of the liver, and added stress to the kidneys and raised blood pressure. It's just the fact it's artificially injecting something into your body and the fact that it suppresses the immune response of your body to help with the accelerated healing of your body... just gives me the heebie jeebies!
Caporegime
Makes sense. My point is that due to the needle aspect it actually deters many people fro doing it. Whereas popping a pill would be far easier and friendlier in an average joes life. Hell, I get enough comments about drinking whey
Caporegime
Yea seems a bit excessive so you can be bigger than another guy, or impress women. You can get a decent body without it.
Man of Honour
Gents, I realise that the talk of chemical assistance here might be interesting to some of you but as previously suggested and agreed please can you not discuss it in any detail on the forums. This isn't the place for it, if you really want to discuss it there are numerous other places to do so. Generally the bodybuilding type threads are fairly self-moderating so it'd be nice to keep it that was as much as possible.
Thank you for respecting this because I don't want to have to start deleting posts or anything further along those lines.
Thank you for respecting this because I don't want to have to start deleting posts or anything further along those lines.
Man of Honour
If you're doing it for vanity reasons, then I can understand why some people have an objection. But if your goal is to compete then its a whole different story and not excessive at all
Permabanned
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Yeah guys we can discuss this on fb radicalry you should join the group bit more open be interested to talk more in detail.