OcUK Nvidia RTX series review thread

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 20 Sep 2018 at 17:32

andybird123 said:
its the other way round, the image with DLSS has a lot more detail in the textures that gets lost with TAA

https://bit-tech.net/reviews/tech/g...-ti-and-rtx-2080-founders-edition-reviews/11/

In this instance, DLSS, despite being advertised as only having similar quality to TAA, was always the better method for image quality. You do have to look for the finer details, such as complicated foliage in the background, the creases of clothing, or hair, but in doing so you invariably find a better image with DLSS than with TAA (also confirmed by a few quick blind tests with nearby staff members). For example, sharpness would often be improved over TAA, which could sometimes suffer from a slight blur effect in comparison, and there were fewer artefacts on the DLSS side too. Occasionally, edges looked a touch jaggier with DLSS, but it remained the clear winner overall. There are some examples below: In each pair, the top images are captured using TAA and the bottom images with DLSS. We suggest opening them in different tabs or downloading and saving them, then zooming in to spot differences in the areas we mentioned.

I get what you are saying now,but then if you look at what they have posted it is:

TAA(top)

https://bit-tech.net/media/image/2018/9/b63d6405-e0ad-446e-9d5c-4946e56b994b.png

DLSS(bottom)

https://bit-tech.net/media/image/2018/9/fd9be391-c1e6-48ca-aa16-edd9de58d4e7.png

The description says one thing,but the order of the images shows a different thing. The top image has worse edges,and better detail and the bottom has better edges and worse details.

I might send an e-mail and ask them if they mixed it up.

GordyR · 20 Sep 2018 at 17:34

deuse said:
All DLSS is doing is cutting down on detail to get the FPS up.

I understand that's the end result, but it's doing an awful lot more than merely cutting down on detail.

Running at 1440p on a 4K monitor looks abysmal. Using DLSS X1 we should be able to run at 1440p internally and get the performance boost over 4K that comes with it, yet get comparable 4K quality on a 4K monitor.

For today's games this is pointless, you'd just use DLSS X2 to get the ultimate AA quality at native 4K and always get 60+ FPS, but for tomorrow games that take advantage of raytracing or other heavy duty effects, DLSS might be the only thing keeping framerates playable at 4K on these cards.

It's a fantastic piece of technology.

loftie · 20 Sep 2018 at 17:34

andybird123 said:
its the other way round, the image with DLSS has a lot more detail in the textures that gets lost with TAA

CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
*snip*

I was talking about the 'rust effect' on the DLSS image.

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 20 Sep 2018 at 17:35

loftie said:
I was talking about the 'rust effect' on the DLSS image.

From their description its more likely the TAA image has rust on it now,as the images don't match their description.

Can someone run the demo on a normal card - that should clear up what is meant to be what.

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 20 Sep 2018 at 17:37

deuse said:
All DLSS is doing is cutting down on detail to get the FPS up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_usUAXRnGg

Stop at 20 seconds and look at the girls face.

Thanks:

https://youtu.be/Y_usUAXRnGg?t=91

That is the timestamp of the image from the BT review.

BT have mixed up the images. The image with the rust is the TAA image.

andybird123 · 20 Sep 2018 at 17:38

Zoom in on the blue car - on the TAA one you don't see all the rusty edges, thats a big loss of detail

loftie · 20 Sep 2018 at 17:38

CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
From their description its more likely the TAA image has rust on it now,as the images don't match their description.

Can someone run the demo on a normal card - that should clear up what is meant to be what.

Maybe, but we need a non AA'd version to see what the stock is as you say. Regardless, one is adding rust or one is omitting it.

GordyR · 20 Sep 2018 at 17:46

The shot of the guy holding the fishing rod is an interesting one as it shows DLSS to be superior in that instance.

Take a look at the comparison tool here:

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2018-dlss-turing-tech-analysis

The DLSS shot is significantly better than the TAA one due to TAA not being able to handle the hair anywhere near as well as DLSS.

- DLSS X2 = 4K native res plus super high quality AA (best quality)
- 4K TAA = 4K native, plus reasonable quality AA (second best quality)
- DLSS X1 = 1440p res, AI upscaled to 4K, plus super high quality AA (third best quality most of the time, but in same cases, it's better than 4K TAA)

But with DLSS X1 you get the huge performance boost so...

Interesting times!

loftie · 20 Sep 2018 at 17:49

CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
Thanks:

https://youtu.be/Y_usUAXRnGg?t=91

That is the timestamp of the image from the BT review.

BT have mixed up the images. The image with the rust is the TAA image.

Good find! But, in that video while TAA has more rust the DLSS image isn't pristine, look at 1m38. The car in B-Ts photos one looks brand new and one looks rusty. It's funny, looking at B-Ts images I would argue they've not mixed it up. Looking at the ground effect on the side of the road the TAA photo looks like it has a higher resolution to me. Unless the game/demo has some sort of dynamic ageing effect?

Edit: In defence to B-T, the video could have mixed things up. Either way though, there isn't consistency.

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 20 Sep 2018 at 17:51

loftie said:
Maybe, but we need a non AA'd version to see what the stock is as you say. Regardless, one is adding rust or one is omitting it.

BT are running a GTX2080TI which is pushing higher FPS in the benchmark and the video is using a RTX2080.

If you watch the video,at the moment the main car drives in, you see less rust on the DLSS image in the RTX2080 but when they get out it seems fine. It looks like some kind of scene dependent bug,and I suspect since the RTX2080TI is pushing higher FPS its probably not got enough time to do the upscaling operation properly over the odd frame or two.

loftie said:
Good find! But, in that video while TAA has more rust the DLSS image isn't pristine, look at 1m38. The car in B-Ts photos one looks brand new and one looks rusty. It's funny, looking at B-Ts images I would argue they've not mixed it up. Looking at the ground effect on the side of the road the TAA photo looks like it has a higher resolution to me. Unless the game/demo has some sort of dynamic ageing effect?

Edit: In defence to B-T, the video could have mixed things up. Either way though, there isn't consistency.

https://youtu.be/HPZCv3wM1go?t=95

That is with a normal card,so more rust would indicate a non-DLSS image.

loftie · 20 Sep 2018 at 18:04

CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
BT are running a GTX2080TI which is pushing higher FPS in the benchmark and the video is using a RTX2080.

If you watch the video,at the moment the main car drives in, you see less rust on the DLSS image in the RTX2080 but when they get out it seems fine. It looks like some kind of scene dependent bug,and I suspect since the RTX2080TI is pushing higher FPS its probably not got enough time to do the upscaling operation properly over the odd frame or two.

Yea I noticed that too, though the rust around the wheel arch is mostly still there. I'll be honest, I don't know how TAA works, nor DLSS really, but I assumed since DLSS is doing guess work to add detail (even if it is trained) it could have 'guessed' incorrectly. And yea, could also be a bug! Interesting though.

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 20 Sep 2018 at 18:13

loftie said:
Yea I noticed that too, though the rust around the wheel arch is mostly still there. I'll be honest, I don't know how TAA works, nor DLSS really, but I assumed since DLSS is doing guess work to add detail (even if it is trained) it could have 'guessed' incorrectly. And yea, could also be a bug! Interesting though.

It will most likely work the best with predictable repeating stuff,but with more randomised things might have issues like this. It will be interesting to see how it pans out. I also find it ironic that consoles were laughed at for not being "proper" for doing upscaling to get over a lack of physical grunt and now PC is doing it(LOL). About time!!

Poneros · 20 Sep 2018 at 18:48

If we had it actually working in games it would be very interesting to compare it to lowering render scale, different aa, using reshade (makes a big difference), etc.

spikerules · 20 Sep 2018 at 20:43

loftie said:
Something I saw on Anand forums, which unfortunately the DF video doesn't do a side by side of, is that someone pointed out there's a difference between two cars when comparing TAA and DLSS. Notice anything different between the blue car in the last two photos? Sauce: Bit-Tech

Huh DF did literally an entire video of side by side footage of FFVX...

Edit - sorry misread that. You meant the car scene in particular. Apologies.

tyler_jrb · 20 Sep 2018 at 21:00

loftie · 20 Sep 2018 at 22:04

spikerules said:
Huh DF did literally an entire video of side by side footage of FFVX...

Edit - sorry misread that. You meant the car scene in particular. Apologies.

TBH, i didn't watch the entire video. I saw up to that point at the beginning and scanned through the rest but couldn't see the scene, but yea i meant the car scene specifically

RavenXXX2 · 20 Sep 2018 at 22:57

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 20 Sep 2018 at 23:01

35 game benchmark:

https://www.techspot.com/article/1702-geforce-rtx-2080-mega-benchmark/

Dan82 · 20 Sep 2018 at 23:06

Davanius said:
Jackfrags video review is a review?

Really?

It's not a review as such but he does a good video from a gamers perspective. He demos a bunch of games with fps counter and they all run and look amazing @ 4k.

deuse · 21 Sep 2018 at 07:02

GordyR said:
I understand that's the end result, but it's doing an awful lot more than merely cutting down on detail.

Running at 1440p on a 4K monitor looks abysmal. Using DLSS X1 we should be able to run at 1440p internally and get the performance boost over 4K that comes with it, yet get comparable 4K quality on a 4K monitor.

For today's games this is pointless, you'd just use DLSS X2 to get the ultimate AA quality at native 4K and always get 60+ FPS, but for tomorrow games that take advantage of raytracing or other heavy duty effects, DLSS might be the only thing keeping framerates playable at 4K on these cards.

It's a fantastic piece of technology.

Really it's not. Just turn down the settings and one would get a better picture with the same FPS.
I can't believe people have fallen for it.