** Official ** January 2010 Transfer Thread- Rumours & Speculation in here

He's only got 6 months left on his deal but then again Villa paid £3.5m for Heskey when he only had 6 months left too.

It looks like Voronin's close to joining one of the Moscow clubs for around £2m and the only thing holding up Dossena's move is the snow. Unfortunately Tony B is reporting that even if they go (and Degen), Rafa's only going to see the £1.5m going on Maxi and that the only other possible incoming transfer will be a RB on loan to cover Johnson.

He also mentions Birmingham's interest in Babel and that their bid (he says £9m) will be rejected with us holding out for more money. Hopefully he does go and hopefully the club does see that money and it doesn't go to the same place as the above ~£5m.
 
BaZ87 said:
He's only got 6 months left on his deal but then again Villa paid £3.5m for Heskey when he only had 6 months left too.

It looks like Voronin's close to joining one of the Moscow clubs for around £2m and the only thing holding up Dossena's move is the snow. Unfortunately Tony B is reporting that even if they go (and Degen), Rafa's only going to see the £1.5m going on Maxi and that the only other possible incoming transfer will be a RB on loan to cover Johnson.

He also mentions Birmingham's interest in Babel and that their bid (he says £9m) will be rejected with us holding out for more money. Hopefully he does go and hopefully the club does see that money and it doesn't go to the same place as the above ~£5m.
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We could be looking at wages of £5-9m for Maxi over the 2.5 years, possibly where the funds are going if the summer is anything to go by.

DanH84 said:
How much did you pay for Babel? because i don't really see him having increased in value exactly.
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~£11.5m
 
£9million would seem pretty fair to liverpool to me then to be honest. he was extremely highly regarded when you signed him but hasn't progressed anywhere near as hoped.
 
Burned_Alive said:
We could be looking at wages of £5-9m for Maxi over the 2.5 years, possibly where the funds are going if the summer is anything to go by.
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That's just an excuse. Even if we end up paying £12m on Maxi when you take into account his wages, that's still far less than the combined total of the transfer fee's we're looking at getting for Dossena and Voronin, and the money we'll save on their wages (~£6.5m transfer fee's and ~£13m saved on wages over 2.5 years). We all know where the balance of that money is going.

It was the same in the summer. The new contracts for Gerrard, Torres etc were used as an excuse but when you take into account Keane, Pennant and Hyypia leaving, the money saved on their wages (the best part of £200k per week) would more than pay for the extra £20-30k per week for 5 players.
 
BaZ87 said:
You've got your figures slightly wrong there Frank. Utd's last set of accounts said you made just over £70m profit but more or less all of that is wiped out by interest and chargers (not paying anything off the debt) on the loans secured against the club. Like you said in your other post, there's then a further PIK which is personally secured by the Glazers with it's interest rolling up year on year.

Regarding your point about some 'Rich Arab', you're being slightly optimistic if you think any possible buyer for Utd would put up £1bn of their own cash to buy the club. Like dannyjo kind of said, City's Arab's chose City specifically because they didn't have to spend £100m's paying off debts etc.
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FYI

Next season's shirt deal is better than the AIG one (according to telegraph anyway) plus we have signed media contracts in Asia and around the ground since then, so yes I think the annual earnings have increased since the last accounts release mentioned £79m a year

and I believe the club IS paying off something - although Im not sure how much. certainly before the big financial crash last year there were broadsheet reports that Utd had paid off a huge chunk of the club debt , although the Glazer's are not paying off any of their PIK debt which is what all the refinancing is coming from.

(and also every report recently has stated that the total debt isnt any larger than it was originally - and yet the Glazer's "personal" debt has grown by 50-60m by the few accounts Ive read that mentioned specifics, which implies the club have actually paid off roughly the same amount from their debt)

I wasnt suggesting one person invest the £800m - £1bn (although there are enough arabs that could do it with ease), but one arabian investment company would find that figure a drop in the ocean, and I still believe over a decent length of time they would make a lot more money back then any one ever would investing in City or A N Other club (excluding Liverpool who would probably cost 2/3 the cost give or take incl the new stadium)
 
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FrankJH said:
Next season's shirt deal is better than the AIG one (according to telegraph anyway) plus we have signed media contracts in Asia and around the ground since then, so yes I think the annual earnings have increased since the last accounts release mentioned £79m a year
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Yes you're new shirt sponsorship deal (which doesn't come into play until next season) is larger than your current one (around £5m per season iinm) and you may well have signed new media deals in Asia but these are not likely to have increased your profit by ~£30m, but that's your opinion so fair enough.

FrankJH said:
and I believe the club IS paying off something - although Im not sure how much. certainly before the big financial crash last year there were broadsheet reports that Utd had paid off a huge chunk of the club debt , although the Glazer's are not paying off any of their PIK debt which is what all the refinancing is coming from.


(and also every report recently has stated that the total debt isnt any larger than it was originally - and yet the Glazer's "personal" debt has grown by 50-60m by the few accounts Ive read that mentioned specifics, which implies the club have actually paid off roughly the same amount from their debt)
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This is simply not the case; nothing is or has been paid off, the debt secured against the club (and the Yanks personal debt) is increasing. The majority of that is just your Yanks using technicalities to transfer personal debt (used to buy the club) back onto the club but there is a small (well £8m is what I read) increase in bank debt too.

The only thing you got right is that your Yanks debt is increasing and that's because the interest on the PIK just rolls up onto the original borrowing and will be paid when it's paid off/refinanced.

FrankJH said:
I wasnt suggesting one person invest the £800m - £1bn (although there are enough arabs that could do it with ease), but one arabian investment company would find that figure a drop in the ocean, and I still believe over a decent length of time they would make a lot more money back then any one ever would investing in City or A N Other club (excluding Liverpool who would probably cost 2/3 the cost give or take incl the new stadium)
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As I said in the first post, I think you're being incredibly optimistic. There aren't many individuals or investment groups that are going to pay ~£1bn cash on any organisation let alone a Football club. City's owners are a one off and even then nobody knows what their intentions are and or in what form they've given City the money.

You only have to look at the 2 clubs which have been bought purely as businesses (Liverpool and Utd if it wasn't clear enough) to see that anybody looking to buy a football club as a business is going to load it up with debt.

*I don't want to have to go around in circles with you Frank so if you disagree then fair enough :)*
 
http://www.eufootball.biz/finance/7...m_campaign=Feed:+eufootball+(Daily+headlines)

English club Manchester United's loans' price has gone up following reports that the club is seeking to sell bonds to refinance its debts according to Bloomberg. The Premier League club’s GBP 520 million of senior loans gained about 3 pence to 97 pence in the pound according to the head of high yield at London's Insight Investment Management, Alex Moss. Bloomberg indicates that the American Glazer family, which owns the club, has payment-in-kind (PIK) loans of about GBP 202 million and the Sunday Times and Financial Times have reported that the family is looking to settle this debts it is personally responsible for after the 2005 buy-out. The Glazers paid GBP 790 million for the club and took on the 14.25 percent a year PIK loans at that time. Kit Juckes, who is the chief economist at ECU Group remarked that “That the new owners could take on so much debt to buy a football club is a reminder of how widely the monetary madness spread in 2006/2007. That they might be able to issue a new bond and start cleaning up their finances is indicative of how far quantitative easing policies have taken us.”
High-yield bond sales have grown rapidly in recent months and Standard & Poor's market for debt rated lower than BBB and Moody’s Investors Service opened after a two-year closure.

The PIK loan terms allows the hedge funds that own the securities to appoint their own directors if the club's financial performance becomes worrisome according to the Sunday Times. The PIK notes allowed the Glazers to pay interest with more debt rather than with cash.

Manchester United has done well under the Glazers and has emerged as a very successful football franchise with three successive league titles since 2007. The club also won the European Cup in 2008. Manager Alex Ferguson,who is 68-years old, has been with the club since 1986 and as Insight's Moss put it, “There is some key-man risk with Ferguson, who presumably will bow out at some point, and the club’s financial performance depends on its performance on the field.”

Red Football Joint Venture Ltd., United's parent company, made an April annual filing which indicated that it has narrowed its loss to GBP 43.2 million from GBP 57.8 million for the year ending June 2008. The filing also showed that the company had paid GBP 68.8 million in net interest.
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In short this SEEMS to suggest exactly what I said - in that the total debt is lower than what the Glazers initially bought for (initial cost £790m, current Club debt £520m and Glazers personal debt of £202m which means total debt is £722m , down £68m if Im understanding it right)

It certainly seems to imply that to me - but by all means disagree if you wish.

All I was suggesting in regards to any future investment is that currently the club is making about £70m profit per year (currently paying debt with it) and the additional deals could easily add £10m or more a year (with the growth in Asia its not impossible) - compare that with the £100m LOSS City made last year......it wouldnt be such a bad investent (not to mention the value of the name alone which must be worth a tidy sum also)
 
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FrankJH said:
if Im understanding it right)
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Unfortunately not. The total cost of the takeover and the amount of debt used are 2 different things.

When the Glazers bought Utd they borrowed ~£560m, with 70% (£390m) of that being secured against the club. The total group debt and the debt secured against Utd are both higher now.

The stuff about any future takeover, we'll agree to disagree on.
 
BaZ87 said:
Unfortunately not. The total cost of the takeover and the amount of debt used are 2 different things.

When the Glazers bought Utd they borrowed ~£560m, with 70% (£390m) of that being secured against the club. The total group debt and the debt secured against Utd are both higher now.
.
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That is the first time I have ever seen anything like those figures being referred to - so as I did please provide some foundation ;)
 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...debt-soars-to-700m-despite-record-season.html

When the Glazers bought the club for £828 million in 2005 they borrowed £556 million to help them do it, securing about 70 per cent of that against the club. As of June last year, according to these accounts, that debt stood at £699 million.
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And there are hundreds of other sources that will say the same. This isn't an opinion Frank, this is what Utd's accounts have shown!

edit: and you source didn't support anything you said because you misunderstood it.
 
If he joins Newcastle he'll probably be playing PL football next season. If he stays at Leeds it will be the season after at the very least. He's 26 now doesn't have long to have a shot at the PL, it's a bit harsh to **** him off because he wants to play at a higher level.
 
I think he's given Leeds more than enough time to get out of the league, he could have gone ages ago if he really wanted.

Whether he'll cut it in the top flight (assuming he goes to Newcastle and they get promoted) is another matter though.
 
BREAKING GOSSIP

Inter Milan midfielder Patrick Vieira has told Eurosport he is leaving the Serie A champions to join Manchester City in a bid to secure more first-team action that would help him earn a place in France's World Cup squad. (Reuters, 0919 GMT)

TRANSFER GOSSIP

Manchester United have been told they will have to pay £40m if they want to sign Marseille winger Hatem Ben Arfa.
Full story: The Sun

Cash-strapped Portsmouth have put their entire squad up for sale.
Full story: Daily Star

Manchester City are set to sign former Arsenal midfielder and Patrick Vieira from Inter Milan on Thursday.
Full story: The Sun

City boss Roberto Mancini is also expected to land Palermo centre-half Simon Kjaer for £18m.
Full story: The Sun

A player who could be on his way out of Eastlands is Roque Santa Cruz, with Espanyol keen to sign City's Paraguay striker on loan.
Full story: The Sun

Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger is tracking CFR Cluj's 6ft 6ins Ivorian striker Lacine Traore - dubbed 'The New Adebayor'.
Full story: Daily Express

Tottenham are ready to offer captain Robbie Keane as bait to secure a deal for Aston Villa striker John Carew.
Full story: Daily Star

Everton are considering a deal for out-of-favour Blackburn striker Benni McCarthy as boss David Moyes looks to boost his options in attack.
Full story: Daily Mail

Fulham boss Roy Hodgson is ready to capitalise on the financial uncertainty around crisis club Portsmouth by attempting to hi-jack their bid to re-sign Tottenham midfielder Jamie O'Hara on loan.
Full story: Daily Mirror

West Ham hope to wrap up a loan deal for Fiorentina's former Chelsea striker Adrian Mutu early next week.
Full story: Daily Star

Birmingham boss Alex McLeish has launched a £9m bid for Sunderland striker Kenwyne Jones.
Full story: Various

Sunderland want to replace Jones with Schalke 04 striker Kevin Kuranyi.
Full story: Daily Mirror

And Black Cats manager Steve Bruce is on the verge of signing £5.5m Hamburg defender Guy Demel. (The Sun)

McLeish, meanwhile, is set to improve his offer for Liverpool forward Ryan Babel from £8m to £10m.
Full story: Daily Mirror

Blackburn winger Morten Gamst Pedersen is wanted by Greek champions Olympiakos - but they are unwilling to meet Rovers' £1.8m valuation.
Full story: Daily Mirror

Bolton could make a move for Eskisehirspor's Bosnia defender Safet Nadarevic, who is due for talks with Bolton on Monday.
Full story: Daily Mail

Newcastle will target Napoli's Ezequiel Lavezzi, nicknamed 'the Tank', if they make it back to the Premier League but the Italian club want more than £5m for their striker.
Full story: The Sun

Magpies boss Chris Hughton has received a setback after Sheffield United centre-back Matt Kilgallon decided he will remain at Bramall Lane until his contract expires in the summer, despite the clubs having agreed £2m fee.
Full story: The Sun

The Blades want to take Kyle Naughton back from Tottenham on loan - the full-back has played only once since his joint £12m summer transfer with Kyle Walker.
Full story: Daily Mail

OTHER GOSSIP

Manchester United defender Gary Neville is set to retire from football at the end of the season.
Full story: The Sun

West Ham are the target of £100m takeover offer, which could lead to a bidding war for the Upton Park club.
Full story: The Sun

Chelsea are bracing themselves for a financial hit next week when a compensation fee for their signing of Daniel Sturridge from Manchester City will finally be settled. The London club could end up forking out £8m for the 20-year-old striker Sturridge, who was Blues boss Carlo Ancelotti's first signing after taking over as manager last summer.
Full story: Daily Express

LA Galaxy midfielder David Beckham may have nowhere to play once his AC Milan loan deal ends in May because Major League Soccer faces a strike. International players union DIDPro is deadlocked in talks with MLS about a new deal for all players in the United States and the league is threatening a lock-out if a new contract is not signed by 31 January.
Full story: The Sun

AND FINALLY

Manchester United boss Sir Alex Ferguson has admitted he once tried to sign legendary AC Milan defender Paolo Maldini - only to be rebuffed by his father, the former Italy boss Cesare Maldini. "I always wanted to get Paolo here but it was impossible," said the Scot.

"I met his father at a game and told him how much I'd love to have his son at United. Cesare smiled at me and said 'My grandfather was Milan, my father was Milan, I played for Milan and now my son is Milan'. And that was it - story over!"
Full story: The Sun

Michael Oliver will become the youngest referee in Premier League history when he takes charge of Fulham's home game against Portsmouth on Saturday at the age of 24. (Daily Mail)

Chelsea midfielder Frank Lampard has scored a chart-topping single in South Korea. But the Chelsea star is unlikely to celebrate when he hears the lyrics to Mister. They refer to the England star as "cute chubby Frank".
Full story: Daily Star

A 100-inch plasma television has been installed by Manchester United players at the club's Carrington training ground. It is believed Sir Alex Ferguson's stars had a whip-round to buy the £80,000 TV set for the lounge area. (Daily Star)
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