******Official Star Citizen / Squadron 42 Thread******

[humbug]

The pay2win argument is an interesting one and this game is definitionally pay2win, of course it is, i think it would be daft if we didn't all agree on that and when we do we can have a wider conversation about that.

So if you buy the C2 with cash then congratulations you skipped working your way up to owning that ship and you can earn a lot more money a lot faster than you can with a Drake Cutter, you win, but what did you win? You won missing out on part of the game. Well done.

 

[bigmike20vt]

The pay2win argument is an interesting one and this game is definitionally pay2win, of course it is, i think it would be daft if we didn't all agree on that and when we do we can have a wider conversation about that.

So while if you buy the C2 with cash then congratulations you skipped working your way up to owning that ship and you can earn a lot more money a lot faster than you can with a Drake Cutter, you win, but what did you win? you won missing out on part of the game. Well done.

true....... its a personal thing and people draw the line in different places.... i mean objectively any paid expansion in any game which offers new improved toys that the base game does not get would be P2W but few people would have a problem with that.

From my perspective if you want to buy a £40000 game package with all the ships then that is up to you, so long as i can feasably earn them by playing the game i can live with that.

however what grates to me is when stuff i have earned in game is repeatedly taken away from me, but Tarquin who bought all his stuff with cash gets to keep all his stuff.
pre release i am not bothered about that either............... but that is where i differentiate pre and post release.

 

[humbug]

true....... its a personal thing and people draw the line in different places.... i mean objectively any paid expansion in any game which offers new improved toys that the base game does not get would be P2W but few people would have a problem with that.

From my perspective if you want to buy a £40000 game package with all the ships then that is up to you, so long as i can feasably earn them by playing the game i can live with that.

however what grates to me is when stuff i have earned in game is repeatedly taken away from me, but Tarquin who bought all his stuff with cash gets to keep all his stuff.

Most of the ships in that package are unusable solo, they also came about because people running large orgs requested it, its easier than buying them individually, CIG still get that money if they do them or not, if anything they get less as those packages are discounted from what they would be bought as individual ships.
Media outlets and Youtubers who complain about this know nothing else about Star Citizen.

On resets, yes i get that, but quite often, more than not, it is welcomed as once you have everything then what's the point? Its been far far too easy to get all of those ships in the past, the ultimate plan is to never have wipes and make it much more difficult than it currently is to get all the ships in game.

 

[bigmike20vt]

Most of the ships in that package are unusable solo

out of curiosity is this a pre release issue or will it be the case on launch?

ie am just wondering is it on the cards to be able to get missions to join a crew of npcs on a large ship, or flip side would i have the option to buy a multicrew ship and employ npcs to fly with me rather than real players?

as for resets..... like i said, am not that bothered pre release - tho it is why i am not playing it yet - but the argument of players welcoming wipes because they are bored with all the toys............ i mean..... is there no wipe save option to voluntarily do it?

 

[Calin Banc]

The pay2win argument is an interesting one and this game is definitionally pay2win, of course it is, i think it would be daft if we didn't all agree on that and when we do we can have a wider conversation about that.

So if you buy the C2 with cash then congratulations you skipped working your way up to owning that ship and you can earn a lot more money a lot faster than you can with a Drake Cutter, you win, but what did you win? You won missing out on part of the game. Well done.

As long as there is a reasonable way to get something in game, there is no pay to win.

Someone getting something faster is irelevant. What, if I get into a game later and start from zero while the players that are with it from the begging have a lot, should I demand they get reset to zero as well? People use p2w too loosely.

 

[jonneymendoza]

true....... its a personal thing and people draw the line in different places.... i mean objectively any paid expansion in any game which offers new improved toys that the base game does not get would be P2W but few people would have a problem with that.

From my perspective if you want to buy a £40000 game package with all the ships then that is up to you, so long as i can feasably earn them by playing the game i can live with that.

however what grates to me is when stuff i have earned in game is repeatedly taken away from me, but Tarquin who bought all his stuff with cash gets to keep all his stuff.
pre release i am not bothered about that either............... but that is where i differentiate pre and post release.

It is still pre alpha, there is going to be wipes.

When the game reaches 1.0 state, there wont be anymore wipes.

They will also start to decouple a players inventory better. They kinda do already ie they can wipe everyones auec but you keep your ships. or wipe everyones ships(the ones bought in game) but you keep your auec.

Same with reputation.

Basically reputation, ships/gear and auec are seperate and decouples meaning they can wipe these seperately or together when need be.

 

[jonneymendoza]

Finally they have shown the persistent hangers fully!

 

[jonneymendoza]

As long as there is a reasonable way to get something in game, there is no pay to win.

Someone getting something faster is irelevant. What, if I get into a game later and start from zero while the players that are with it from the begging have a lot, should I demand they get reset to zero as well? People use p2w too loosely.

I have personally played with others that have grinded for things like a c2 faster then i could go into the pledge store and buy one myself lol.

You be surprised, there are people who play video games as a whole for 50hours a week . i personally only play maybe half that if that even .

Plus the person who spent that extra 20hours over me for grinding for a c2 ship will be a much better player than me as he or she has put in the hours .

So in theory i say the game is more like a GRIND2WIN

 

[jonneymendoza]

out of curiosity is this a pre release issue or will it be the case on launch?

ie am just wondering is it on the cards to be able to get missions to join a crew of npcs on a large ship, or flip side would i have the option to buy a multicrew ship and employ npcs to fly with me rather than real players?

as for resets..... like i said, am not that bothered pre release - tho it is why i am not playing it yet - but the argument of players welcoming wipes because they are bored with all the toys............ i mean..... is there no wipe save option to voluntarily do it?

The flip side of hiring npc to crew yporu large ship is on the cards.

Getting ,missions to join acrew full of npc's i have not heard of that being a thing tbh but someone here can correct me on that.

I assume you dont want to entertain the idea of playing with real players?

@humbug Most of the ships in that package are unusable solo

Wait till engineering gameplay comes online. That will make those shops even more useless solo wise lol

 

[bigmike20vt]

The flip side of hiring npc to crew yporu large ship is on the cards.

Getting ,missions to join acrew full of npc's i have not heard of that being a thing tbh but someone here can correct me on that.

I assume you dont want to entertain the idea of playing with real players?

Never say never and all that but generally despite being a bit of a gobby sod on these forums i am quite introverted when it comes to playing online.

i regularly play online with a group of about 8 different friends (not all at the same time, usually a max of 4 or 5 of us in total) but it is unlikely they will all be interested in Star citizen.

I have played online with randoms and had a few good experiences, but also had some really bad ones. bottom line i do not like being responsible for other peoples game, if i am rubbish and mess up i only want to inconvenience myself and not face the wrath of another player (I had some really toxic experiences on counterstrike and DOTA2 and quit both games over it), and further more if i want/need to quit then i just want to do that, and not feel obliged to stay online for fear of screwing someone over if i leave (imagine i was in a player run ship and me leaving meant the ship was no longer able to operate properly with me quitting for instance).

i just dont want that reponsibility. npcs however, if programmed correctly are there for my pleasure, i do not have to worry about them or being entertaining content for them.

 

[humbug]

(Thor's Day) We are currently putting together a new 3.24 build for an Evocati PTU publish later today. Goal is to also try and have a new RMQ TECH-PREVIEW starting Friday and throughout the weekend with the audience depending on the current wave

RMQ....

RMQ is a major change in our underlying network code that will help set us up for the future. While you may not notice any immediate difference, these changes will allow us to process vastly more network traffic, more quickly and are an essential step in scaling the replication layer to support server meshing and increased player counts in the future.

 

[Noxia]

@Raumarik Anything you'd like to share with the group

 

[ProStreet]

Lol I remember preordering this game about 15 years ago, haven't played it once. Is it out of beta yet? lol

 

[Cantankerous]

The thing I think they'll never do (if they have sense) is the Death of a Spaceman stuff. Aka permanent loss.

There's already enough pay2win going on with the fomo ship sales such as the F8. What it needs to be is is, do this quest chain, grind this faction rep etc. to be able to buy ships both ingame and out. Instead of happen to be around X date and fork over cash.

As for the last test they did I heard the private hangars were good but they had issues with the hangar doors opening. Although doors and lifts have always been a problem spot

 

[Curlyriff]

The pay2win argument is an interesting one and this game is definitionally pay2win, of course it is, i think it would be daft if we didn't all agree on that and when we do we can have a wider conversation about that.

So if you buy the C2 with cash then congratulations you skipped working your way up to owning that ship and you can earn a lot more money a lot faster than you can with a Drake Cutter, you win, but what did you win? You won missing out on part of the game. Well done.

Aye that be the thing. P2W clearly is for an advantage to something that is in a competitive state like buying better footballers for real monies in fifa or a weapon in a game that one shots where normally there a few seconds with TTK.

The definition is slightly at odds to what that is for SC. If you are in combat and doing combat missions thar are say PVP there is an edge there that purchasing ships gives. But for almost anything else in the game they just self advantages.

 

[Curlyriff]

Never say never and all that but generally despite being a bit of a gobby sod on these forums i am quite introverted when it comes to playing online.

i regularly play online with a group of about 8 different friends (not all at the same time, usually a max of 4 or 5 of us in total) but it is unlikely they will all be interested in Star citizen.

I have played online with randoms and had a few good experiences, but also had some really bad ones. bottom line i do not like being responsible for other peoples game, if i am rubbish and mess up i only want to inconvenience myself and not face the wrath of another player (I had some really toxic experiences on counterstrike and DOTA2 and quit both games over it), and further more if i want/need to quit then i just want to do that, and not feel obliged to stay online for fear of screwing someone over if i leave (imagine i was in a player run ship and me leaving meant the ship was no longer able to operate properly with me quitting for instance).

i just dont want that reponsibility. npcs however, if programmed correctly are there for my pleasure, i do not have to worry about them or being entertaining content for them.

I would never worry about that in our group, we have a @humbug that we enjoying causing mess ups too. And nobody really takes it super serious and mistakes happen.

 

[humbug]

The thing I think they'll never do (if they have sense) is the Death of a Spaceman stuff. Aka permanent loss.

There's already enough pay2win going on with the fomo ship sales such as the F8. What it needs to be is is, do this quest chain, grind this faction rep etc. to be able to buy ships both ingame and out. Instead of happen to be around X date and fork over cash.

As for the last test they did I heard the private hangars were good but they had issues with the hangar doors opening. Although doors and lifts have always been a problem spot

Death of a Spaceman for an MMO makes no sense to me but primarily because CIG have done such a bad job of explaining it and its one of those ticking little oddity nuggets CIG have dumped in there where people feel its curious but also slightly threatening and no one knows what its going to do once it stops ticking.

Its an MMO, just be MMO i don't get this uptalking features that seemingly they themselves don't understand, just..... stop it.

 

[Raumarik]

The pay2win argument is an interesting one and this game is definitionally pay2win, of course it is, i think it would be daft if we didn't all agree on that and when we do we can have a wider conversation about that.

So if you buy the C2 with cash then congratulations you skipped working your way up to owning that ship and you can earn a lot more money a lot faster than you can with a Drake Cutter, you win, but what did you win? You won missing out on part of the game. Well done.

It's more like pay for access to a wider game. I see the ships as essentially DLC unlocks, bought a mining ship - congrats now you can access the mining mini game, got yourself a fighter, good now you can die horribly to better players slower.

There's no real end game, nothing to win. All you are doing is rushing towards different gameplay, but not actually a terminal point where the game completes.

 

[humbug]

It's more like pay for access to a wider game. I see the ships as essentially DLC unlocks, bought a mining ship - congrats now you can access the mining mini game, got yourself a fighter, good now you can die horribly to better players slower.

There's no real end game, nothing to win. All you are doing is rushing towards different gameplay, but not actually a terminal point where the game completes.

That's a really good point...

 

[[FnG]magnolia]

It's more like pay for access to a wider game. I see the ships as essentially DLC unlocks, bought a mining ship - congrats now you can access the mining mini game, got yourself a fighter, good now you can die horribly to better players slower.

There's no real end game, nothing to win. All you are doing is rushing towards different gameplay, but not actually a terminal point where the game completes.

And all of this leads up to a game which is nowhere near complete. It won't affect the core supporters but they have to be aware that the optics on this slow motion car crash are dreadful.