******Official Star Citizen / Squadron 42 Thread******

[jonneymendoza]

See that is the thing, before RMQ that 5-10 seconds was greater even then. They are still working and developing RMQ so that test was find out where, why and how it falls over. The fact that they went okay we have data at 500 player and can see where bottlenecks are so lets push to the 1000 and see what else that brings. That is literally the point of the test.

No doubt there are issues of scaling and using SM whilst in RMQ but saying it doesn't work and back to the drawing board isn't really what it means either.

True but it means that they need to analyse that data and see what is needed to fix it.

It could be a one line change in the code or it could be a complete redoing of the RMQ ie back to the drawing board.

Dont forget that the last SM test, they gathered the data and based on that data HAD to redo the whole messaging que system!

 

[jonneymendoza]

The problem we do have to consider with anything on Dynamic SM is the cost of player per server. You can't just scale it and it be viable that way. So they are clearly trying to hit a target for SM of around 1000 player count. It needs a realistic long term balance for server per player cost.

The thing is, 1000 players maybe enough / ok for one or star systems but if they plan to introduce even 5 more star systems, 1000 per shard is not enough once players are spread out.

 

[humbug]

Like i said the 100 players test was one server, baisically what we have now, it felt like off-line mode, every input was instant and locked 30 FPS on the server, so RMQ is doing something, good things.

For the 500 player test it seems to me like the replication layer was overwhelmed, the servers themselves were solid.

 

[humbug]

The thing is, 1000 players maybe enough / ok for one or star systems but if they plan to introduce even 5 more star systems, 1000 per shard is not enough once players are spread out.

Eliete Dangerous had a player cap of 45 with an entire galaxy of about 12 different planetary archtypes cloned across that galaxy.

It was effectivly a single player game.

If you have 5 stanton like systems even 1000 players are going to desolve in to that soup, you will see people much like you do in stanton but its not going to feel anymore alive than it does now, that's the nature of something like this on this scale, personally i think less star system's with more in them as apposed to a more with less is way prefrable.

Or what you could do is have a reagion clusterd with 10 stanton like systems with the other 90 unpopulated, explorable but like in ED there is nothing there.

 

[humbug]

I think for a 10 system play space to feel alive, it needs to be around 3000 players per shard.

 

[imtoooldforthis]

Have they managed to make this run well yet ? As in a decent frame rate which is not dictated by the server ? Do players still jank about everywhere rather than running/walking smoothly ?

I remember a couple years ago people said that it would all run great when server meshing came out ? Has that happened yet ?

Have they sorted out the crap UI/Inventory ? Server persistence ?

These were things were all talked about years ago but last time I checked a year or so ago none of them had been addressed

 

[humbug]

Have they managed to make this run well yet ? As in a decent frame rate which is not dictated by the server ? Do players still jank about everywhere rather than running/walking smoothly ?

I remember a couple years ago people said that it would all run great when server meshing came out ? Has that happened yet ?

Have they sorted out the crap UI/Inventory ? Server persistence ?

These were things were all talked about years ago but last time I checked a year or so ago none of them had been addressed

Inventory, yes but i don't really know what you mean?
Server Persistence, yes.
Server Meshing, that's what we are testing now, seems to work well but they are also trying to get the player count to 1000 and that needs more work.
UI, half of it, new mobiglass and star map are in, new MFD's are here.... coming in a few weeks.

 

[PinkFloyd]

Have they sorted out the crap UI/Inventory ?

Nope and nope. Game still full of holographic UI that can't be read easily on a bright background, and whilst the inventory is better than it was, it's still probably the clunkiest inventory system in any game I can think of. It's frustrating...

Zeus and the new MFDs are looking nice.

 

[humbug]

Cutty new cockpit dashboard, better visibility.

 

[pete910]

Server meshing needs to be able to do ALL players!

Then I can be certain to be able to find @humbug and shoot him

 

[jonneymendoza]

 

[ttaskmaster]

Barring deliberate meet-ups with friends, does it matter much to the immersion/alive-feeling whether you encounter other players or not?
Aside from occasionally getting caught in a popular PVP area, the only time you see other players is when they whizz past you on their way from the EZ-Hab to the ASOP terminals, or the weapons/kit shop.

In 10 years I've only once had any non-combat/whizz-past interaction from a player, and that's only from a horny Scots-Canadian because my character defaulted to the female after a reset.

 

[Dicehunter]

So with 3.24.1 going live, CIG also enabled RMQ replacing NMQ -

RMQ, Replication Message Queue, is the newest iteration of NMQ, Network Message Queue. It allows us to us to 'listen' to far more information requested by players, such as opening doors, equipping items, etc..., to better manage interaction delays. Now that this new system is ready, we’d like to have the community test it to continue improving it. Right now, some servers are running on NMQ, and others on RMQ, to compare the data. When the time is right, all servers will switch to RMQ.

Basically better performance, Less bugs from various actions

Barring deliberate meet-ups with friends, does it matter much to the immersion/alive-feeling whether you encounter other players or not?
Aside from occasionally getting caught in a popular PVP area, the only time you see other players is when they whizz past you on their way from the EZ-Hab to the ASOP terminals, or the weapons/kit shop.

In 10 years I've only once had any non-combat/whizz-past interaction from a player, and that's only from a horny Scots-Canadian because my character defaulted to the female after a reset.

For me it's nice seeing other players going about their business but aside from the occasional unwanted PvP I generally have very little interaction with people outside my friend group.

 

[Raumarik]

I've had some amazing interactions with randoms, few and far between though.

I can't help think the shear size of the locations and systems is counter productive, people are in such a rush trying to get from A-B so they can do basic preperation to take off that they rarely interact on the way there other than on the train etc.

I have been rescued a few times using medical beacons which was very cool !

Also ATLS price is madness, should be included with your hangar but - nobody is forcing you to buy it now, get it in game. I mean if anything is an ingame purchase so far, it's the ATLS!

 

[Calin Banc]

Eliete Dangerous had a player cap of 45 with an entire galaxy of about 12 different planetary archtypes cloned across that galaxy.

It was effectivly a single player game.

If you have 5 stanton like systems even 1000 players are going to desolve in to that soup, you will see people much like you do in stanton but its not going to feel anymore alive than it does now, that's the nature of something like this on this scale, personally i think less star system's with more in them as apposed to a more with less is way prefrable.

Or what you could do is have a reagion clusterd with 10 stanton like systems with the other 90 unpopulated, explorable but like in ED there is nothing there.

The AI should fill in the emptiness. Just a handful of systems will be far, far too few for the scope needed in some careers - like an explorer.

Considering the advancements in AI, the procedural generated assets should present no problem to have as many planets as NMS, but exceedingly improved.

 

[Dicehunter]

Eliete Dangerous had a player cap of 45 with an entire galaxy of about 12 different planetary archtypes cloned across that galaxy.

It was effectivly a single player game.

If you have 5 stanton like systems even 1000 players are going to desolve in to that soup, you will see people much like you do in stanton but its not going to feel anymore alive than it does now, that's the nature of something like this on this scale, personally i think less star system's with more in them as apposed to a more with less is way prefrable.

Or what you could do is have a reagion clusterd with 10 stanton like systems with the other 90 unpopulated, explorable but like in ED there is nothing there.

It'll be interesting to see how they tackle the other star systems, They can't go the hand made route as so far it's taken them 5+ years to get Pyro out and Stanton was finally done with the graphical upgrade last year or so and that was 8+ years, At this pace if they hand make all 20+ systems they won;t be done until the year 2100.

 

[Curlyriff]

It'll be interesting to see how they tackle the other star systems, They can't go the hand made route as so far it's taken them 5+ years to get Pyro out and Stanton was finally done with the graphical upgrade last year or so and that was 8+ years, At this pace if they hand make all 20+ systems they won;t be done until the year 2100.

You mean the 100+ systems they have suggested to date?

The part for lots of it is that they rework so so much, even with Pyro it's had multiple updates and reworks without us ever seeing them. New tech still being done. Heck they working on planet tech v5 right now and still got loads of missing tech for planets anyways.

The difference is for them to drop planets out is quick to the standard they are now. They could put out copy paste elements for locations fine too. But it would just be that, different coloured skins.

So I expect another few years of messing about and not much more in terms of systems dropping tbh after we do get Pyro.

 

[Calin Banc]

It'll be interesting to see how they tackle the other star systems, They can't go the hand made route as so far it's taken them 5+ years to get Pyro out and Stanton was finally done with the graphical upgrade last year or so and that was 8+ years, At this pace if they hand make all 20+ systems they won;t be done until the year 2100.

At some point theyve shown how they can quickly create biomes, planet wide, by simply adding some numbers to a handful of variables. It should be done.

My only issue is that foliage and such looks ... meh?. And also its reaction to the world is... meh?

 

[humbug]

At some point theyve shown how they can quickly create biomes, planet wide, by simply adding some numbers to a handful of variables. It should be done.

My only issue is that foliage and such looks ... meh?. And also its reaction to the world is... meh?

Agreed, some of it looks very outdated if not broken, there is a lot of texture tiling, that's unforgivable, it should be an easy fix these days, very harsh blunt transitions between textures, IE no blending, again should be an easy fix, really bad LOD on trees, looks like only 2 LOD modes, full or LOD_0 and and cards which is the most extreme distance LOD and that starts at 100m maximum which is also far too close so you see a lot of very obvious 2D cardboard trees.

A lot of that is actually broken, texture blending and even ground asset to ground texture blending used be in and working, we used to have dense forests with LOD's that actually looked good even at extreme distance, same with grasses and other foliage, it used to be dense with decent distance rendering, now its sparse with a short complete cut off range.

It all used to look much better, it used to look pretty good.

 

[Curlyriff]

Agreed, some of it looks very outdated if not broken, there is a lot of texture tiling, that's unforgivable, it should be an easy fix these days, very harsh blunt transitions between textures, IE no blending, again should be an easy fix, really bad LOD on trees, looks like only 2 LOD modes, full or LOD_0 and and cards which is the most extreme distance LOD and that starts at 100m maximum which is also far too close so you see a lot of very obvious 2D cardboard trees.

A lot of that is actually broken, texture blending and even ground asset to ground texture blending used be in and working, we used to have dense forests with LOD's that actually looked good even at extreme distance, same with grasses and other foliage, it used to be dense with decent distance rendering, now its sparse with a short complete cut off range.

It all used to look much better, it used to look pretty good.

That has at least been discussed about density etc in I think it was the latest monthly report due to tech changes but it's ground texture and LOD of everything that really hurts right now.