Soldato
Until the game either folds or is released i do not see how any one me included can decide either way if its a `scam` or not, its all hear say and crystal ball like.
How is it a scam? Maybe because loads of people paid for it years ago and there's still barely anything to show for it? Development began in 2011 after the Kickstarter campaign which raised millions, and the game was meant to be out in 2014. We're now four years on and it's still an Alpha, with no clear idea in sight of when it'll come out. I've been watching the development for years, waiting to see if anything concrete actually happens and it's just too fluid and choppy. Things get changed whenever and the developer stance of "we're not happy with this so we're overhauling it completely" is just ridiculous. People have paid for the game and it's taking years to complete. I'm not sure whether the blind allegiance from some on here is just because they're hoping that they haven't wasted money, or that they absolutely, truly believe that the developers are going to deliver on their promises, but up until now, what have you got to show for it aside from a barely playable buggy alpha?
How is it a scam? Maybe because loads of people paid for it years ago and there's still barely anything to show for it?
Development began in 2011 after the Kickstarter campaign which raised millions, and the game was meant to be out in 2014
People have paid for the game and it's taking years to complete.
It was crowd funded, that crowd funding was raised to make the game, you raise cash you don't have to make the game with.
2012, but semantics.... They raised a lot more cash than they anticipated, massively more, as i understand it Chris put a vote to the backers asking if they should stick to the schedule or expend its scope and with it development time, backers voted for the later.
Games do take years to make, 6 years so far is not that unusual, some games have taken 10, tho i don't think it will take quite that long or longer, IMO this will be in beta in 2 years, this is one of the, no, this is THE largest most complex game in history.
Add to it that CIG do sticking to their promises that progress is playable for us all, that in its self takes time because every patch needs to be QA'ed.
I took the development start from Wikipedia, which states: "Star Citizen is an upcoming massively multiplayer, space trading and combat game developed and published by Chris Roberts' company Cloud Imperium Games for Microsoft Windows and Linux. Development of the game began in 2011, and is being mostly financed from a large crowdfunding campaign. The game was originally planned for a 2014 release, but significant delays in production and the expansion of gameplay features have led to postponement. Squadron 42, a single-player story driven game set in the same universe as Star Citizen, is also being developed. Neither game has a set release date."
QA on the game would be ongoing anyway. Regardless of whether it's released as a public alpha, all internal builds would be subject to QA as part of the ongoing development process otherwise development would be pointless.
Saying it's the largest, most complex game in history is all fine and well, but at the moment it isn't close to being a game so everything about it is just a promise. Do you have access to everything that they're promising in the current alpha? I doubt it. Loads can be promised during development and nothing close to that can be delivered in the final product. The fact here, is that unlike most games where the studio or publisher has been funding the entire development, this has been funded by a community of players that are simply hoping it'll be as good as they say it is, and the entire development around the game is becoming somewhat of a joke to those of us standing by watching and waiting for it to release fully before buying it. Where are you getting two years away from beta? Is that stated by the studio, or have you just made an educated guess based on where the game is right now? What if they decide to do another engine overhaul because they don't like the one that they're using now? They did that before and development got pushed back years.
What I'm trying to get at is how are people still investing blindly into this game when, up until now, it's becoming such a silly development cycle?
I took the development start from Wikipedia, which states: "Star Citizen is an upcoming massively multiplayer, space trading and combat game developed and published by Chris Roberts' company Cloud Imperium Games for Microsoft Windows and Linux. Development of the game began in 2011, and is being mostly financed from a large crowdfunding campaign. The game was originally planned for a 2014 release, but significant delays in production and the expansion of gameplay features have led to postponement. Squadron 42, a single-player story driven game set in the same universe as Star Citizen, is also being developed. Neither game has a set release date."
QA on the game would be ongoing anyway. Regardless of whether it's released as a public alpha, all internal builds would be subject to QA as part of the ongoing development process otherwise development would be pointless.
Saying it's the largest, most complex game in history is all fine and well, but at the moment it isn't close to being a game so everything about it is just a promise. Do you have access to everything that they're promising in the current alpha? I doubt it. Loads can be promised during development and nothing close to that can be delivered in the final product. The fact here, is that unlike most games where the studio or publisher has been funding the entire development, this has been funded by a community of players that are simply hoping it'll be as good as they say it is, and the entire development around the game is becoming somewhat of a joke to those of us standing by watching and waiting for it to release fully before buying it. Where are you getting two years away from beta? Is that stated by the studio, or have you just made an educated guess based on where the game is right now? What if they decide to do another engine overhaul because they don't like the one that they're using now? They did that before and development got pushed back years.
What I'm trying to get at is how are people still investing blindly into this game when, up until now, it's becoming such a silly development cycle?
but significant delays in production and the expansion of gameplay features have led to postponement.
Can I ask a genuine question? Why does it bother you so much? You have readily admitted you are standing by and waiting which is fine, the backers are the reason that this game is even being developed and they are the ones who are bearing the risk so I am curious as to what you are getting out of it at this point by pointing out what many people are already aware of. It's like you and a few others in this thread have taken it as a personal affront that people have chosen to spend their money as they wish.
Just to clarify I don't disagree with anything you are saying, in fact as someone who is heavily invested in the development (as others here know well) I have grown increasingly jaded with Chris Roberts and the development process but I've just become indifferent to the whole thing. Do I think it will be as grand in scale as he has promised? Definitely not. Do I think even in half its promised state it would still be up there as one of the most in-depth/engaging space sims released? Potentially but again no guarantees. I have contemplated pushing for a refund a few times but decided against it as ultimately I backed it in good faith, I had my eyes wide open when I pledged (so your assumption that people are blindly pledging is a massive generalisation, though the bulk of my funding came in 2013/2014) and subsequently any 'loss' is on me as nobody put a gun to my head.
I do get the impression that some people just want to see it fail simply so they can say 'look I told you so, you're an idiot for ever putting your money in'. I'm not suggesting you are one of those individuals but you don't have to look far to find them. My response to them, as I outlined above is...if it fails it fails, so be it won't be the first or last time I lose money on something, thankfully I backed well within my means (never put in more than you are willing to lose and all that) and the individuals who stretched themselves to back the game are foolish. For me at least, if it ends up delivering I will be more than happy that I helped in some small part for that to be achieved.
Apologies for the /snip of your post but this was the bit I was interested in. For me, I wouldn't use 'bother' - I'd use 'interest' instead. I find it fascinating to see the justification, and blind allegiance to SC for those who are so heavily invested in the game - mentally as well as financially - versus those at the other end who see a blatant scam and can see nothing good in SC. There doesn't seem to be much middle ground, although you're probably the closest poster on this forum I've seen to having a dog in each race.Can I ask a genuine question? Why does it bother you so much?
Apologies for the /snip of your post but this was the bit I was interested in. For me, I wouldn't use 'bother' - I'd use 'interest' instead. I find it fascinating to see the justification, and blind allegiance to SC for those who are so heavily invested in the game - mentally as well as financially - versus those at the other end who see a blatant scam and can see nothing good in SC. There doesn't seem to be much middle ground, although you're probably the closest poster on this forum I've seen to having a dog in each race.
I'm only half joking when I say that I can see SC being used as a case study in University Pyschology classes in future years.
It doesn't bother me that people have invested money in this, but it does bother me that on the current trajectory, us gamers are being lead along and there's a very real risk of failure here. I'm concerned about the gamer and how the industry is going with game development, and a product started by and continuing to receive huge monetary support from the community for not much to show for it is a worrying trend that I don't want to see more of. And who do the developers answer to? In a normal studio, it's the publisher and share holders. Does such a thing even exist for Star Citizen, or is it solely those backing the game? Because as you've said, if it fails and you lose your money, it doesn't matter to you because you didn't back much. But what about for those that backed the high amounts? What recourse do they have if the game fails?
I don't want the game to fail, but I do think it's far too ambitious a project to fully see the light of day with everything promised implemented, and it wouldn't be the first time that gamers have been left with an incomplete product that's failed to deliver. I have been a gamer for over 25 years and it concerns me that currently, this sort of model of game (paid testing) is what we're getting these days. Having said that, I backed Subnautica (back in December 2016 when the early access product that it was back then was actually very playable and had a lot in it already, and I paid £7.49 which was a bargain) and also Astroneer (again, an Alpha title that I paid £12 for but got a more-than-playable multiplayer experience). Both of these were risks, but when I took them both of these games had a lot of playability already, with loads of streamers and YouTube videos showing what you could and couldn't do. The Star Citizen Kickstarter campaign was launched and there wasn't much game at that point, but people put money into it anyway (hence the blindly backing comment I made earlier) and are still going on faith alone that the product will be delivered and will be as described, simply because that's what they're being told. I'm all for hope, but how far into development is this game going to get before we actually see something close to a finished product? Two years to beta was mentioned, but is that actually going to happen or is that just guesswork?
Apologies for the /snip of your post but this was the bit I was interested in. For me, I wouldn't use 'bother' - I'd use 'interest' instead. I find it fascinating to see the justification, and blind allegiance to SC for those who are so heavily invested in the game - mentally as well as financially - versus those at the other end who see a blatant scam and can see nothing good in SC. There doesn't seem to be much middle ground, although you're probably the closest poster on this forum I've seen to having a dog in each race.
I'm only half joking when I say that I can see SC being used as a case study in University Pyschology classes in future years.
i thought the 2011 referred to the prep work CR did to create the stuff for the original pimp trailer, but i might be wrong about that.Anyone can write anything they want on Wikipedia, that article is wrong.
i thought the 2011 referred to the prep work CR did to create the stuff for the original pimp trailer, but i might be wrong about that.
it's about time they had a code freeze on this, and finish up the game as it is now, anything else they want to add they can do as extras/expansion later on, which would also help to keep interest in the game. S42 is desperately needed, imo, to keep people occupied while they polish the main game.
that's the same as literally any big name game that offers cash-bought assets. people who play seriously are always going to have better stuff. it's the same even when items aren't buyable - some seriously player in Elite will always have better gear than you if they have the time to play/trade 7 hours a day etc. it's the way of gaming.The pay2win economy is going to be so utterly broken at launch it's becoming less and less appealing for people that just want to buy the game and play it when it launches. People with fleets they've built up over the years of development, and money to pour into in game currency post-launch are going to be in a playing in a different league
They can't code freeze, literally can't due to the dependencies many of which are still in development.
i mean freeze the code as it is and develop it, ie stop adding in new ship and cac like sandworms etc etc