******Official Star Citizen / Squadron 42 Thread******

[humbug]

I really don't get the 'pay2win' argument with regards to SC,
what are people paying to win?........

Is winning getting a ship?
Is that the end-game?

You really don't understand this game.

Winning is not the end goal, its not that kind of game, you don't win in this game, you make something of yourself through your actions. You're not getting one over another in mining, cargo running, being a trader, a mercenary, a PI... a member of a larger collective. its not CoD, its best described as a First Person EVE Online.

Anywho, to build a game, especially one like this you first need to build the code, the infrastructure, Cryengine provides everything that you see, the environment, it cannot for example contain a planet in virtual 3D space, this is a feature that needs to be built from scratch, and believe me if what you want is ground level to outer space transitioning without a load screen what you need is space in real volume and time, that is extraordinary difficult, no other game has it, Elite Dangerous uses a loadscreen disguised as an effect, as does No Mans Sky.

That is just one of many thing CIG need to build from scratch, that takes time and it needs to be done before you can fill your game with stuff, it is now beginning to be filled with stuff.

The roadmap. we are currently on 3.2. https://robertsspaceindustries.com/roadmap/board/1-Star-Citizen

When CIG cracked the real time real space planet transitioning (what everyone said was impossible) they celebrated quietly with this little video.

 

[GiraffePencils]

You really don't understand this game. ...

Or you don't understand my post...
I said I don't get the pay2win argument when people are talking about Star Citizen,
I'm asking the question of what people think they're winning when they say pay to win. I'm not asking people what the winning is, as I know there's not a 'win'

 

[humbug]

Or you don't understand my post...
I said I don't get the pay2win argument when people are talking about Star Citizen,
I'm asking the question of what people think they're winning when they say pay to win. I'm not asking people what the winning is, as I know there's not a 'win'

It was aimed at mid_gen, sorry, my bad, i was up a 4 this morning.

 

[mid_gen]

Or you don't understand my post...
I said I don't get the pay2win argument when people are talking about Star Citizen,
I'm asking the question of what people think they're winning when they say pay to win. I'm not asking people what the winning is, as I know there's not a 'win'

Pay2GainAGameplayAdvantage better?

If people were just buying ships skins and cosmetics it would be fine....but people are racking up huge amounts of in-game capital and will be starting the game with a massive advantage over those that want to progress through gameplay alone.

Not to mention that they'll be pouring real money into in-game currency come launch as well.

 

[GiraffePencils]

Pay2GainAGameplayAdvantage better?

If people were just buying ships skins and cosmetics it would be fine....but people are racking up huge amounts of in-game capital and will be starting the game with a massive advantage over those that want to progress through gameplay alone.

Not to mention that they'll be pouring real money into in-game currency come launch as well.

But you've not given example of what their advantage is?
They have a big ship? requires staff etc, They also need practice etc etc.
But on top of that them having that isn't denying me anything, they have no advantage over me unless my goal was to be 'killing them'. Which You could do if you were particularly well skilled in a fighter

 

[jonneymendoza]

I really don't get the 'pay2win' argument with regards to SC,
what are people paying to win?........

Is winning getting a ship?
Is that the end-game?

You dont win anything, Its all about the experience and fun of travelling through space and doing whatever you fancy

 

[humbug]

Right, its an adventure game, its not adversarial. altho it does have a PVP element if that's what you want.

 

[jonneymendoza]

Right, its an adventure game, its not adversarial. altho it does have a PVP element if that's what you want.

Its more like a GTA type game. Do whatever u fancy doing!

 

[mid_gen]

Y'all must be talking about a different game because the SC I was pitched in 2014 when I backed was a deep space-faring MMO with a complex persistent economic and political player driven simulation.

If it's really become just GTA in space complete with Shark Cards then it really is time to give up on it.

 

[mid_gen]

Dp

 

[Raumarik]

political player driven simulation.

I don't think that's ever been stated, players make up at most 10% of the population, we will have some minor effect on planetary economies with concerted sustained effort to disrupt supply lines but we are along for the ride, not in control of it. What happens politically is down to the writing team although they may incorporate some player events that have happened - it's not driven by players though.

 

[Wucked]

Or you don't understand my post...
I said I don't get the pay2win argument when people are talking about Star Citizen,
I'm asking the question of what people think they're winning when they say pay to win. I'm not asking people what the winning is, as I know there's not a 'win'

I do kind of get it. Those that have spent the money will have all of the best toys straight away. There’ll be nothing for them to earn and they’ll have a huge advantage in nearly every activity. Great for CiG’s bank balance, not so great for Star Citizens initial game balance.

 

[humbug]

I do kind of get it. Those that have spent the money will have all of the best toys straight away. There’ll be nothing for them to earn and they’ll have a huge advantage in nearly every activity. Great for CiG’s bank balance, not so great for Star Citizens initial game balance.

Well now hang on a minute, i have Cutlass, you may start with an Avenger, i have 4x the cargo capacity you have, so what? i'm a little further ahead than you up the cargo food chain but what difference does that actually make when you and i find joy in cargo running? if anything i might be inclined to melt the Cutlass once persistence is permanent because i feel its more engaging to start from the bottom and work my way up.

 

[Wucked]

Well now hang on a minute, i have Cutlass, you may start with an Avenger, i have 4x the cargo capacity you have, so what? i'm a little further ahead than you up the cargo food chain but what difference does that actually make when you and i find joy in cargo running? if anything i might be inclined to melt the Cutlass once persistence is permanent because i feel its more engaging to start from the bottom and work my way up.

I don’t mind it too much. For me it’s exactly as you’ve said, I find it engaging to start from the bottom. To fight against the odds. But the argument is still there to be made, that if you take the EvE mindset, then everything is essentially PvP. And in that case we’re into the dreaded pay-to-win scenario.

 

[Panos]

But you've not given example of what their advantage is?
They have a big ship? requires staff etc, They also need practice etc etc.
But on top of that them having that isn't denying me anything, they have no advantage over me unless my goal was to be 'killing them'. Which You could do if you were particularly well skilled in a fighter

Is not the ships that will seal club everyone with smaller ships.
But atm they are buying real estate. Huge areas in planets.

So anyone who will start normally will struggle be able to compete with those who have a massive head start. Even if you build your own group, you will be priced out.

Saying that, having played EVE with cunning you can bring down even the most powerful alliance (BoB comes to mind). But takes years in planning.

 

[bazza64]

Yes, that's why I cashed out. I had high hopes but the land sale cash grab was the last straw for me. Maybe the game will be what was promised, but now I seriously doubt it.

 

[Panos]

Yes, that's why I cashed out. I had high hopes but the land sale cash grab was the last straw for me. Maybe the game will be what was promised, but now I seriously doubt it.

I got into the game by the AMD reward back in 2013 with the R9 290X, and sold the one next year with the 295X2 for £50.
Because it has that special red ship. Since then I logged twice in the tech demo, and that is. If ever the game comes out I will give it a try.

 

[Raumarik]

I do kind of get it. Those that have spent the money will have all of the best toys straight away. There’ll be nothing for them to earn and they’ll have a huge advantage in nearly every activity. Great for CiG’s bank balance, not so great for Star Citizens initial game balance.

Even if you own EVERY ship in the game, the instant it goes live those parts start to degrade, your ships start to age whenever in use and new optimised equipment will be getting made and sold on the market, likewise new models will come out. Plus you can only fly one ship yourself at a time - so having 10 isn't much use unless you have 9 friends to help out or want to entrust one of those ships to AI - which to be honest having seen the AI, I'd never do..

The guys and I have played a fair bit of SC over the years and the most I play it the fewer ships I have. Put simply you can have a lot of fun in one ship with 2 or 3 of you messing about doing missions, a huge fleet even if owned from day one will largely sit in a hangar imho with people taking them out only now and then for major battles due to running costs, risk of damage etc.

Personally I see myself crewing other peoples ships mostly, it's what I tend to do now. Hell if nobody else has a ship available for multicrew I'll spawn one in and then let them pilot - I'd rather be in a turret or going EVA on postman duty.

 

[jonneymendoza]

Y'all must be talking about a different game because the SC I was pitched in 2014 when I backed was a deep space-faring MMO with a complex persistent economic and political player driven simulation.

If it's really become just GTA in space complete with Shark Cards then it really is time to give up on it.

why? There are two part of this game, The GTA of space and a actual SP story mode

 

[mid_gen]

why? There are two part of this game, The GTA of space and a actual SP story mode

GTA in space is not what I backed, and not what I think they are pitching now. At least they refund easily enough.

Doesn't stop it being disappointing the way the game is turning out. If I just want to fly spaceships around, I can do that in ED. What I wanted is a real MMO like Eve, but with actual space-piloting gameplay. I think that game is still there somewhere but it's getting swallowed up by this monetisation monstrosity they've created.

I don't see how they can back out from the mess they've gotten into. They can't stop the flow of cash into the game economy because their release date keeps sailing off further into the distance...so they have to just keep exacerbating the problem by selling more in-game assets.

Anyway, I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, some people will like what the game has become....I don't, I'm a frustrated and disappointed backer.