There's no doubt that PSG want Zidane and Zidane wants PSG. I think that's done for the summer. Whether Zidane wants PSG now is a different matter.
Ole's sacked, who next?
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There's no doubt that PSG want Zidane and Zidane wants PSG. I think that's done for the summer. Whether Zidane wants PSG now is a different matter.
I remember when I heard that how ironic his name seemed at the time.
Soldato
I agree. However I think that is a end of season move. PSG have league in the bag and a good chance at CL
Soldato
Mods we may as well close this thread? What is there to discuss? Ole is gone? Make another thread titled “Manchester United manager hunt thread” or something along those lines or change the title of this thread
Caporegime
Can change the title but no reason to close it, need somewhere to discuss the manager hunt.
Agreed.
Caporegime
How positive are the rest of the United fans that we will make the right appointment?
Personally my biggest fear is that we will persist with the current backroom staff instead of clearing out a large majority of them. I think that we should be able to get a top class manager in at the end of the season but without the right team around them, they are doomed to failure.
I think that was probably one of Oles biggest mistakes. I think the guy was out of his depth in a few areas but I also think he shot himself in the foot by not bringing in proven, world class coaches to help him. Uniteds insistence that people with "United DNA" are any better for roles at the club just baffles me. Its nepotism and nepotism is almost never the best way to run any business.
Personally my biggest fear is that we will persist with the current backroom staff instead of clearing out a large majority of them. I think that we should be able to get a top class manager in at the end of the season but without the right team around them, they are doomed to failure.
I think that was probably one of Oles biggest mistakes. I think the guy was out of his depth in a few areas but I also think he shot himself in the foot by not bringing in proven, world class coaches to help him. Uniteds insistence that people with "United DNA" are any better for roles at the club just baffles me. Its nepotism and nepotism is almost never the best way to run any business.
Soldato
ManU are going to get Potch and he will be as amazing for them as he was for Spurs, with the exception that ManU will actually win the Champions League with him.
Caporegime
Well it's down the manager. I don't think the Glazers would insist he keeps the backroom staff (I think we only did that with Carrick and Mourinho because he'd just been appointed and we wanted to see how he'd do)
Soldato
To be honest there has been a huge degree of mismanagement at Man Utd since Fergusson left. Fergie is probably the best manager I have seen in my lifetime (and I am saying that as a Palace fan)
Moyes was actually a really good appointment and should have been given much more time and support. Unfortunately, he inherited the club at a time when the team needed significant rebuilding. Since then every appointment has been awful and based on "reputation" rather than actual suitability for the position. I think Pochetino is probably the ideal appointment now but he will need to be given substantial time to fix the squad. Zidane, in my opinion, would be another car crash appointment.
Being a fan of another club I don't have the same emotional attachment so look at things more objectively. Some of the player signings have been absurd as well. Signing Ronaldo was nuts and I said this at the time. Yes, he is a huge star, but he was never going to make the Man Utd team any better. The entire Man Utd squad has far too many players who just shouldn't be there. I'm not saying that they are bad players, just not team signings.
Moyes was actually a really good appointment and should have been given much more time and support. Unfortunately, he inherited the club at a time when the team needed significant rebuilding. Since then every appointment has been awful and based on "reputation" rather than actual suitability for the position. I think Pochetino is probably the ideal appointment now but he will need to be given substantial time to fix the squad. Zidane, in my opinion, would be another car crash appointment.
Being a fan of another club I don't have the same emotional attachment so look at things more objectively. Some of the player signings have been absurd as well. Signing Ronaldo was nuts and I said this at the time. Yes, he is a huge star, but he was never going to make the Man Utd team any better. The entire Man Utd squad has far too many players who just shouldn't be there. I'm not saying that they are bad players, just not team signings.
I am not particularly positive about us making the right appointment, but hopeful.
At present my biggest fear is that Carrick wins a couple of games and they make him interim until the end of the season. I would hate that. He's sensationally boring and ideally, should be out of the door with Ole. That said, I don't think it's overly likely to happen.
It's still only November, I'd rather we tried to get a permanent manager in now if at all possible. As long as it's one we want. At the moment it's very early days and nobody has a clue what's going on, so we're just going to have to wait.
Poch would be a good fit, with the one caveat that despite his various excellent traits, he didn't actually win anything at Spurs. Ten Hag I'd also be delighted with.
My personal view is that Poch isn't getting on that well at PSG. The fans don't like him, his family are still in England, Zidane wants the PSG job, Poch wants the Utd job. PSG's main focus is winning the CL with their big names, and Zidane is perfect for that.
So can something be done sooner rather than later...
And right on cue:
At present my biggest fear is that Carrick wins a couple of games and they make him interim until the end of the season. I would hate that. He's sensationally boring and ideally, should be out of the door with Ole. That said, I don't think it's overly likely to happen.
It's still only November, I'd rather we tried to get a permanent manager in now if at all possible. As long as it's one we want. At the moment it's very early days and nobody has a clue what's going on, so we're just going to have to wait.
Poch would be a good fit, with the one caveat that despite his various excellent traits, he didn't actually win anything at Spurs. Ten Hag I'd also be delighted with.
My personal view is that Poch isn't getting on that well at PSG. The fans don't like him, his family are still in England, Zidane wants the PSG job, Poch wants the Utd job. PSG's main focus is winning the CL with their big names, and Zidane is perfect for that.
So can something be done sooner rather than later...
And right on cue:
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No one gets on well at PSG, but then Poch put up with Levy for 5 years so probably fairly accustomed to BS anyway. His family are in the UK mainly because his son is at Watford so they're supporting him.
I do see the interim staying to the end of the season at this rate.
Enjoy watching him not make subs until the 89th minute and playing Ronaldo at LWB.
I do see the interim staying to the end of the season at this rate.
Enjoy watching him not make subs until the 89th minute and playing Ronaldo at LWB.
Caporegime
Poch is a side step from Ole imo. He went down hill with Spurs and failed to win the French league which should be a given.
Erik Ten Hag is who I want in the summer. He has had his Ajax team stripped to shreds after that Semi final champions league. (Lets face it bar a spawny spurs side he would have gotten to the final) Yet has rebuilt it and is currently top of his league and unbeaten in the champions league.
To have all his major players taken away and still get right back up there in a couple of years is a good achievement and is who we should be looking into.
Erik Ten Hag is who I want in the summer. He has had his Ajax team stripped to shreds after that Semi final champions league. (Lets face it bar a spawny spurs side he would have gotten to the final) Yet has rebuilt it and is currently top of his league and unbeaten in the champions league.
To have all his major players taken away and still get right back up there in a couple of years is a good achievement and is who we should be looking into.
, but they're smashing it like usual this year and will easily get to the KO stages of the UCL.Having taken the weekend to reflect on all of this I feel more able to comment. I feel for Ole - his heart was in the right place but he was too inexperienced and too nice to take this club on. The club has proved unmanageable since SAF retired despite 4 managers being tried and 100s of millions of pounds being spent of players. Really its a disgrace and the obvious place to lay blame is with the Glazers and the hierarchy. I don't think this covers it all but there does seem to be an awkward balance between the maximisation of commercial revenues and success on the pitch. These are my assessments on the mistakes made by Ole.
1. Recruitment - I don't actually think this is much better than a year 11 playing Football Manager. Whereas other clubs seem to be able to unearth previously unknown talent from around the globe and develop them into better players. Fernandes is the only player who remotely fits that concept and arguably he's a big part of the problem tactically as his licence creates big issues for a poorly coached team. Varane, Sancho, Ronaldo are lazy signings facilitated by history and chequebook size. Most keen observers recognise that Maguire (£80m), wan Bissaka (£50m), Shaw (£50m) as 3/4 defenders is not as good as that available to Liverpool, Chelsea, Man City. Then there is the DvdB fiasco - least said about that the better.
2. Development - Rashford, Greenwood, McTominay - other than Greenwood I can't think of a young player has really kicked on and cemented a challenge to a first team regular. Instead of this they persisted with a bloated squad of players with the likes of Mata and Lingard taking the place of a youth team prospect. We've paid a lot of money for the likes of Diallo, Pellestri but there appears to be no roadmap for them to develop their career. Solskjaer started well enough clearing out some players but then lost his nerve and became sentimental about players who patently weren't going to be at the level.
3. Selection - Too much loyalty to underperforming players. Other than Shaw and DeGea who benefited from competition the manager was far too persistent with "favourites". Maguire, wan Bissaka and Fernandes have been really poor this season yet they always start. Same with Rashford when he was part fit last season. Ironically the toughest stance he showed was to Pogba but really he should have moved him on a long time ago. This has rightly bred unrest in the dressing room and a more experienced manager would have been more ruthless and empathetic. Not giving van der Beek a chance was really naive.
4. Coaching - Given the benchmark of the most successful clubs in England is the coaching ability of Klopp, Guardiola and now Tuchel why would anyone think that a manager who doesn't coach backed up by novices and an old timer was going to compete. It's obvious for anyone to see that United are one of the poorest coached teams in the division. Players bigger than the club or system? - Maybe but ultimately thats for the manager to sort out and OGS was not ruthless enough. He's allowed mediocrity to persist (relative to the best) and ultimately not set an appropriate standard.
So a bit of a indictment really on what was a sentimental appointment. Ole thinks he's left it in a better place however I'm not so sure that a complete rebuild is not required to sort this club out. The problem with an interim is that he might not be allowed to clear out too many in January and I think that is required to rest the tone and signal a new start.
1. Recruitment - I don't actually think this is much better than a year 11 playing Football Manager. Whereas other clubs seem to be able to unearth previously unknown talent from around the globe and develop them into better players. Fernandes is the only player who remotely fits that concept and arguably he's a big part of the problem tactically as his licence creates big issues for a poorly coached team. Varane, Sancho, Ronaldo are lazy signings facilitated by history and chequebook size. Most keen observers recognise that Maguire (£80m), wan Bissaka (£50m), Shaw (£50m) as 3/4 defenders is not as good as that available to Liverpool, Chelsea, Man City. Then there is the DvdB fiasco - least said about that the better.
2. Development - Rashford, Greenwood, McTominay - other than Greenwood I can't think of a young player has really kicked on and cemented a challenge to a first team regular. Instead of this they persisted with a bloated squad of players with the likes of Mata and Lingard taking the place of a youth team prospect. We've paid a lot of money for the likes of Diallo, Pellestri but there appears to be no roadmap for them to develop their career. Solskjaer started well enough clearing out some players but then lost his nerve and became sentimental about players who patently weren't going to be at the level.
3. Selection - Too much loyalty to underperforming players. Other than Shaw and DeGea who benefited from competition the manager was far too persistent with "favourites". Maguire, wan Bissaka and Fernandes have been really poor this season yet they always start. Same with Rashford when he was part fit last season. Ironically the toughest stance he showed was to Pogba but really he should have moved him on a long time ago. This has rightly bred unrest in the dressing room and a more experienced manager would have been more ruthless and empathetic. Not giving van der Beek a chance was really naive.
4. Coaching - Given the benchmark of the most successful clubs in England is the coaching ability of Klopp, Guardiola and now Tuchel why would anyone think that a manager who doesn't coach backed up by novices and an old timer was going to compete. It's obvious for anyone to see that United are one of the poorest coached teams in the division. Players bigger than the club or system? - Maybe but ultimately thats for the manager to sort out and OGS was not ruthless enough. He's allowed mediocrity to persist (relative to the best) and ultimately not set an appropriate standard.
So a bit of a indictment really on what was a sentimental appointment. Ole thinks he's left it in a better place however I'm not so sure that a complete rebuild is not required to sort this club out. The problem with an interim is that he might not be allowed to clear out too many in January and I think that is required to rest the tone and signal a new start.
Soldato
The Glazers/Woodward/Woodward's successor (delete as applicable) probably won't make the right appointment at all.
I think if Utd get Zidane in then he'd say on condition he brings his own coaching team in. Poch? Maybe he'd bring some of his own coaches in to supplement the current coaching team? I think it is clear that the current coaching team, for the first team squad, isn't suitable and needs to be majorly overhauled. Carrick/McKenna are probably safe in the medium term but Phelan as assistant manager is surely gone as and when the new manager takes over. Surely any manager worth their salt would bring their own assistant manager with them and I can't see Phelan dropping down to be a coach. I honestly thought that Ole getting Phelan back was a masterstroke as Phelan knows the club, how Fergie worked and was with us during some previous good times but Phelan feels, to me at least, to be almost anonymous. I'm reading that he's not "on the grass" as in not getting involved with training? If so what on earth is he doing? What the heck can an assistant manager be doing if not getting involved with training?
What I find stange is that with Ole gone we're now on 4 post-Fergie managers: Moyes, Van Gaal, Mourinho and Solskjaer. Carrick is technically the 5th and the club are hinting that he'll be replaced soon by an interim manager so that's manager no. 6 before a permanent manager (no. 7) is appointed for next season. This potentially means that unless Carrick keeps the job until the end of the season we'll have had 7 managers in almost 9 years?!
I wonder if Murtough and Fletcher are at risk with a new manager. Someone like Poch might be OK with them, Zidane would probably want them out and then Ten Haag might be used to a more European coaching system with them around but are they the right people? Murtough was surely involved in us getting Varane and Sancho so that's good business but then how involved was he in signing Ronaldo back? Are we needing top class coaches/technical and football directors with no previous connection to Utd as I think the whole philosophy of ex-players/coaches returning isn't working right now.
It seems that the most obvious candidates are Zidane, Poch and Ten Haag,at least according to Sky Sports whose opinions must be taken into account of course
. Poch seems the most 'romantic' candidate? He knows the league and he was a popular choice to succeed Jose but went to PSG instead. Is he actually good enough to take this squad, plus additions over the summer, to being title contendors/winners and challenge in Europe and domestic cups? But then is someone like Zidane going to be too intense and short-lived to build a long-term squad plus language barriers probably exclude him right now. I don't know much about Ten Haag but he's from Ajax and so would presumably work well with Donny and get him working and playing as we all want to see him doing. I wonder if Ole is now thinking "Should I have found a way to get Donny in the team?". I see Laurent Blanc has been named as a possible interim manager? He used to play for us, so knows us and the league, presumably speaks the language well enough, won the league in France with PSG.I hear there's a Scottish coach available. Bit old at 79 but seems to have a lot of experience: won a few league titles and the odd Champions League. I say, "Sign him up Fergie!!".
As for my preference I want Utd to find and appoint someone who can make some short-term impact and rescue the club, OK maybe not this season if Utd do the Carrick/interim/manager plan but then also someone who can build a long-term legacy. Is Brendan Rodgers right? Perhaps. I've no qualms about him being a former Liverpool manager. We aren't in a position to be choosy about who we want if we want to challenge for the league and other competitions. Take Matt Busby into account. Alongside Fergie our greatest manager yet he played 204 league games for Manchester City and 115 for Liverpool! If we apply what people are saying about Brendan Rodgers to past managers then Busby never coached Utd and all the achievements and legacies he left never happened! If Brendan had won the league or a cup with Liverpool then fair enough but he didn't so if he becomes our next manager and wins something with us then I suspect people would forget about his previous employment in the next city along.
Caporegime
There are rumours that Ole was basically told "you can have whoever you want in your backroom team" as a not so subtle "get some top coaches in to help" and he chose to stick with his team. I just don't have much faith in the higher ups not to meddle.
Moyes was and still would be an awful appointment. Hes an upper mid-table side manager who doesn't play good football and doesn't have the mindset to manage a big team. There are good managers at every level in football however that doesn't mean they can make the step up for whatever reason. Certain managers are good at avoiding relegation with a bit of a crap and limited team but that doesn't make them good for a club with more ambition.
I agree about Zidane. I really would not want Zidane until he has taken over at a team that wasn't in its absolute prime with a settled squad and style. United are not even close to being that. PSG would make far more sense for him.
I never understand this claim that a manager hasn't won anything. There are only so many trophies each season and most of them are not even worth competing for. Poch had Spurs massively punching and he nearly won the CL. I could point out a dozen bang average managers that have won more than Poch. I mean, Ole won some titles didn't he. This isn't a criticism of you, more an observation that its absolutely nuts to judge a manager on trophies rather than how they manage and what value they bring to the teams they manage.
Trying to win a domestic cup isn't hard as a top 6 manager IMO. If you gave someone a few years they would probably win one if that was their priority. Ask them to win the CL or PL and thats far more impressive. Ranieri did that a few years ago though and hes not exactly in high demand...
I have reservations over Poch but I think he is a top manager still. I would prefer someone like Ten Hag though. Unproven at the top level but by all accounts has the potential makings of a world class manager. Somewhat in the vein of Nagelsmann in so far as he needs to go to a big team to prove himself.
Soldato
Potch was amazing for us at Spurs and it's an absolute disgrace that he was let go. Another year and some more funds and he would have won the CL and maybe the premiership too - we were our closest ever for years with him as manager. Levy is the problem, not Potch. I'm really hoping that Conte forces Levy's hand into his pocket instead of letting it limit his success. Potch and Conte are both amazing, winning managers who - unlike 'The Special One' - are still at the top of their game, but you can't handicap a manager like that but being a tightwad.
Soldato
I agree with this. Van Gaal was highly rated because of all the trophies he won yet in my opinion I found his track record rather underwhelming. Taking a job as manager of Barcelona or Real Madrid and winning the league is easier than taking a side into the top 4 in the Premier League. Arsene Wenger was laughed at when he said qualifying for the Champions League was like winning a trophy. The downward trend at Arsenal is testament to the truth of that. Pochetino did a fantastic job at Spurs and actually built something.
Man Utd have an awful squad right now. Lots of very good individual players and I read the other day it was worth £840m. The reality though is that they have made the wrong signing time and time again. It needs a huge amount of work and in the long term I think it is better for the club to write this season off and just get to the end of the season. Then they can get the right manager in at the season end who can have a fresh start.
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