Soldato
Heat of the moment senseless killing which he now regrets on all levels.
Oscar Pistorius thread
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Caporegime
The IO initially said it was 600m, and then changed it to 300m when being questioned by the prosecution. He also confirmed that the witness said they couldn't identify if any of the voices were his or hers and couldn't make out what was said either.
Caporegime
Absolutely, that is a version of events and we could come up with a thousand more.
But I think I will apply occam's razor to this situation for my opinion and we will wait and see what other information comes out
The reports of arguing and previous domestic disturbances all point to the simpler answer so far.
Associate
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Putting aside his story and the prosecution for a moment, given that he has admitted killing her, what is the minimum sentence he can expect? anyone know SA law?
UK law you would be doing time, and the case would just be deciding how much, is SA law much different? is there a chance he could walk free?
UK law you would be doing time, and the case would just be deciding how much, is SA law much different? is there a chance he could walk free?
I vaguely recall a story where an elderly man killed his wife thinking she was an intruder, I think it was in the UK, I believe the police decided to let him go or maybe it was in the US?
You sure UK law would definitely give him a sentence?
As for thread, why would she go to bathroom after "breaking" into the house?
Obviously, or at least hopefully, future facts will bring light to this story but to me it looks like he shot her in a fit of rage, given what I know seems slightly more likely to me.
Edit: doing some searching it seems in such cases in the UK they do get manslaughter but very lenient when it comes to actual punishment.
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Soldato
Would be the best conparison.
Happened in Pretoria as well. Probably the best comparison. Admittedly it seems quite a bit easier to understand how he thought that was a burglar. Although I wonder if those who doubt you'd check, would say he should have checked the his daughter was in the house first, especially considering it was her car...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/may/25/southafrica.rugbyunion
kd
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Ahh yes, I remember that happening whilst I was living there. Very tragic, especially considering it didn't warrant use of lethal force in the first place anyway.
Just heard on the radio that the police are now saying they found testosterone injections in his bedroom.
Caporegime
This is turning in to a complete farce. Half of the information the Police released to the media doesn't appear to be true and the defense lawyers are claiming the steroids which were originally found were in fact a legal herbal remedy.
I'm not sure we''ll ever find out what really happened but the defense are going to have a track and field day if the prosecution don't sort themselves out fast.
I'm not sure we''ll ever find out what really happened but the defense are going to have a track and field day if the prosecution don't sort themselves out fast.
And the defense say it is a legal herbal medicine, and this is just the bail hearing...the trial is going to be a circus!
Caporegime
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Absolutely, that is a version of events and we could come up with a thousand more.
But I think I will apply occam's razor to this situation for my opinion and we will wait and see what other information comes out
The reports of arguing and previous domestic disturbances all point to the simpler answer so far.
Applying occams razor has no bearing here as killing her on purpose and killing her accidentally are both very simple explanations, neither is simpler.
Also many people have been murdered, most of them have argued with multiple people, arguing is something the vast majority of couples do, many very frequently and very few resulting in murder. Domestic disturbances don't point to anything simple at all. The point was, if you suspect someone on the other side of the door could easily be armed and may intend to kill you, you don't go up to the door, you don't want to open the door at all, so why would he know it was locked, or assume an intruder had locked himself in, that is no where near the simplist explanation.
Its actually completely daft and sounds like he absolutely should have been done for murder. Someone driving away in a car means zero danger, he wasn't in any danger and opened fire on the person in the car for no other reason than harm. Even if it wasn't his daughter, its a freaking car, you don't kill someone over a car. Killing in self defence, or if you suspect your life may be in danger(even if it actually wasn't) is understandable, killing someone who poses zero threat is unforgiveable.
IF, and I don't care nor believe either way for the record, OScar is telling the truth, between his story and this guy shooting his own daughter, one deserves a pretty harsh sentence, Oscar would deserve some punishment. The shoot first ask questions later policy may be more standard in SA, and I can understand places with horrendous crime rates, but ultimately he's responsible for a death and had he been more careful and less reactionary, she wouldn't be dead(again assuming it was all an accident).
Even 300m is still a long old way.
If you look at this aerial photo of the gated community:
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/02/20/article-2281531-17932845000005DC-105_634x356.jpg
Oscar's house is the first white house, if you look in from the right, half way down the photo. It's between a larger white/blue house and a one with a red roof.
For a witness to be 300m away, you would be looking at somebody in a house beyond the next road in any direction. Yet there are many houses between them, including both his neighbours. That raises the question that if somebody was that far away and heard it all, surely all the people who were much closer would have heard it too?
Thats one of the problems the prosecution has.
The circumstances leading up to those events in this case don't seem equally simple to me with the two stories being presented at this preliminary stage.
You're really focussed on the locked door part, when it's not that relevant tbh. Locked or just closed, it's the same thing...it doesn't change the question of why an intruder would be in your ensuite toilet cubicle...and why that would be your first thought and not your g/f taking a wee. A quick call out while having the gun trained on the cubicle is an easy solution to that.
I know your not trying to say he is innocent, and I haven't condemned him as guilty, I just think at this early stage the intruder story doesn't ring true, but we will need to hear all the evidence in the trial
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Permabanned
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If the legs don't fit you must acquit!
Soldato
I'm amazed this whole thing will soon have gone on for 3 days, it's a bail hearing not a mini trial! All they are deciding is if he will be let out until the trial or not, seems crazy they are having to reveal all these half baked theorys and alibis without all the facts and relevant evidence.
Man of Honour
The South African legal system has inherited a lot from British law I believe, like a lot of former British colonies the law was imported to a large extent. How much it has diverged since then it something I wouldn't know without a detailed study but I'd be a bit surprised if it doesn't still bear at least a passing resemblance for much of the criminal code if nothing else.
Soldato
I'd be going for the Chewbacca Defence. Certainly makes more sense that Oscar's story.
Well ive just seen the floor plan of the bedroom/bathroom on the BBC and im now leaning way toward him deliberately killing her.
I always thought hed shot through the bathroom door, but he actually was inside the bathroom already and he actually shot through a door which sealed off the toilet. So basically hes shooting into a closed toilet cubicle like you have at work. And it didnt occur to him it could be his girlfriend in there? Even though hed thrown he pistol holster onto the bed?
Nope, im definitely going for premeditated murder, if the police dont completely **** it up.
I always thought hed shot through the bathroom door, but he actually was inside the bathroom already and he actually shot through a door which sealed off the toilet. So basically hes shooting into a closed toilet cubicle like you have at work. And it didnt occur to him it could be his girlfriend in there? Even though hed thrown he pistol holster onto the bed?
Nope, im definitely going for premeditated murder, if the police dont completely **** it up.