Soldato
I think he has a lot of it right. The year 2008 and before were the golden years for F, now it's crap.
I'm glad I saw all the great cars and drivers.
"Our attempts to make Formula One greener is ruining the sport" - Bernie Ecclestone
- Thread starter Spie
- Start date
I think he has a lot of it right. The year 2008 and before were the golden years for F, now it's crap.
I'm glad I saw all the great cars and drivers.
I agree 2008 was the last good year and the downhill trend has accelerated substantially since then, especially this year.
I think we can all agree that the popularity of F1 has fallen. I strongly believe that the cause is over regulation and a ridiculous attempt to make F1 appear "green".
I would be interested to know whether the pro-V6 crowd have a different explanation ...
Soldato
But again, it's rose-tinted - and in 2008 more than many. 2008 saw outrage from fans on these very forums due to some of the penalties or lack of penalties. It was a good year in terms of the championship going down to the final corner of course, but in other ways it was shocking.
Then you've some of the most boring racing in that era. With the increasingly complex flaps and winglets making for, in my opinion, some of the most shocking-looking cars of modern times, and they struggled to follow each other. Of course some of the racing can still be dull, while DRS does make for some false racing, but it does at least give some passing. While you had some close racing in certain conditions (Silverstone 2003 and Massa vs Kubica at Fuji 2008 are good examples), there were some races in the mid-00s which featured overtakes which could literally be counted on one hand. I think I can vaguely recall there was one race which didn't have any on track overtakes after the first lap (and no, it wasn't at Monaco).
Stupid? Bit harsh?
It's just a list. I think most of it is accurate. I did not say all that stuff never existed in the formula 1 of old. Rather, it seems to carry more weight and feature more in the F1 of new. This disappoints many fans when the spectacle is over shadowed by having to talk more about a penalty because someone hitched a lift back to the pits on a car for example.That's all I meant.
I take your comments on board though, probably slightly rose tinted. However, it has lost something. I think before, we used to look forward to F1 because it knew no boundaries and was always pushing the envelope to go faster even despite attempts to slow the cars. With this years big shake up, it's like it went out of the way to cap them. F1 will never be green really. There are so many other things in the world we can look at to be greener. But they chose to try to do it in F1 where we want to use machinery to go fast at the highest level.
On the other hand...since F1 should be about new technology, the future has to have fuel efficiency in mind so arguably it is now heading in the right direction. The problem is, this goes massively against the grain of F1 being so simple in its ambition of performance, performance, performance.
2008 was only interesting because of Lewis winning the DC and the last race/lap/corner shenanigans at Brazil. I've watched replays of races from 2008 on Sky, they weren't that interesting at all.
2007 - interesting because of Spygate and Lewis having such a great rookie year.
2006 and waaaaaaaaay before that, I'm struggling to think of much of note apart from a couple of stand-out instances. Early to mid 90s perhaps the last genuine excitement?
2007 - interesting because of Spygate and Lewis having such a great rookie year.
2006 and waaaaaaaaay before that, I'm struggling to think of much of note apart from a couple of stand-out instances. Early to mid 90s perhaps the last genuine excitement?
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Stupid? Bit harsh?
I take your comments on board though, probably slightly rose tinted. However, it has lost something. I think before, we used to look forward to F1 because it knew no boundaries and was always pushing the envelope to go faster even despite attempts to slow the cars. With this years big shake up, it's like it went out of the way to cap them. F1 will never be green really. There are so many other things in the world we can look at to be greener. But they chose to try to do it in F1 where we want to use machinery to go fast at the highest level.
Really, did you really just Wright that. Every big rule change slows them down for a year or two. this is nothing mire.
And I don't feel it's harsh. Political hasn't got worse at all. If anything it's got marginally better. But pretty much the same.
As already posted, it's a decade since most lap records were achieved. This season really is nothing new. People moaning and there's always a large contingency off that.
People either didn't watch back in the day or really have forgotten what it was like.
Actually this season it's very new. Yes it has been in general getting slower and it has been progressive over many years. Not denying that. I'm not complaining about JUST THIS YEAR. This thread holds a bigger debate I think, about the general decline in F1 popularity. This season it is new though. It's the biggest change in one season for a long time and is worthy of debate. I don't see the problem in talking about that amongst other things.
It's not new, we have had just as big changes before.
And you just can't go back to what it used to be. that means getting rid of simulations, analysts, forgetting technology exists.
The fact is give then the rules form even a decade ago, it becomes to fast and to unsafe,
On top of that you will never get rid of fuel saving, other than saying you will carry 150kilos. Even then they're likely to turn it up and burn fuel as fast as possible in the first few laps, then back to fuel saving. It's just the fastest way to complete a race.
And you just can't go back to what it used to be. that means getting rid of simulations, analysts, forgetting technology exists.
The fact is give then the rules form even a decade ago, it becomes to fast and to unsafe,
On top of that you will never get rid of fuel saving, other than saying you will carry 150kilos. Even then they're likely to turn it up and burn fuel as fast as possible in the first few laps, then back to fuel saving. It's just the fastest way to complete a race.
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Soldato
You may have not liked the year 2008 and before but the Global F1 viewing figures back's me up.
Over 100 million global viewers have been lost up on till 2013. They say another 50 million will stop watching F1 this year.
This is bad for the sport as sponsors will leave F1 and advertise else where.
The first race cost the promoter £36 mill and Silverstone have already said that they MAY break even in 4 years time.
And now that Indycar is coming to Europe next year with a very low price tag of £2.2 mil a race.
I got to ask how did the highest ever viewers know that Lewis would win and about Brazil at the start of the season?
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96,97, 98 and 99 were pretty good with some fantastic individual races. I really enjoyed the 90's up until the stupid narrow cars and grooved tyres but there were still some excellent 100% flat out stints and races.
I didn't enjoy the 00's much except the odd season here and there.
Everyone is looking for different stuff and each to their own
High viewing figures automatically mean interesting spectacles then?
I can think of many massively **** World Cup Finals, I'm guessing global audiences for those were still pretty big. Ok, so they are more like one-off events compared to F1, but viewing figures are high because of the anticipation of something happening, which more often than not doesn't actually deliver.
Viewing figures were probably highest post-Schumacher dominance because people were expecting something new to happen, which it did in terms of WDC and the new, young guy in Lewis taking it to the more established racers. It doesn't mean the on-track action was any more exciting though, races were largely still processional.
Viewing figures are low again now thanks to many things, Vettel's dominance, switching to pay TV, stupid rules etc.
Associate
High viewing figures have nothing to do with the technology or new rules introduced or the sound. There is a core audience for F1 that despite much whinging and internet rants about how they are giving up watching will always watch because they are invested in the sport.
We get peaks in viewing when there is no clear winner emerging throughout the season, word of mouth and sports news brings in more people interested in the human competition between two, three or four leading drivers. If the season looks like it’s going to the wire then again we get the viewing spikes. Also off the back of an exciting and engaging session the figures will remain high at the start of the next session as people tune in expecting the same again. These people are not fans of F1; they are fans of close completion, varied winners and human drama.
So the viewing figures mean squat and will always fluctuate.
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We get peaks in viewing when there is no clear winner emerging throughout the season, word of mouth and sports news brings in more people interested in the human competition between two, three or four leading drivers. If the season looks like it’s going to the wire then again we get the viewing spikes. Also off the back of an exciting and engaging session the figures will remain high at the start of the next session as people tune in expecting the same again. These people are not fans of F1; they are fans of close completion, varied winners and human drama.
So the viewing figures mean squat and will always fluctuate.
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Disagree. Yes there will always be a hardcore F1 following but it is dwindling. I know plenty of people who used to follow F1 avidly and now don't bother. They do still appear to be following most of the other sports they have an interest in.
F1 viewing figures are in substantial decline. Reports of -100 million since 2008 are not to be trivialised. Ultimately unless the decline is reversed then sponsorship money will start to fade away. In fact there is real evidence to suggest it already has started to.
Soldato
The decline is most likely due to the massive switch from free to air to pay / subscription tv. The sponsorship will fade, but will be replaced by the other revenue instead.
With anything, there are avid fans - things change, they stop being avid fans but new avid fans take their place.
You'll start following another sport, and a follower of another sport will take your place as an F1 fan.
With anything, there are avid fans - things change, they stop being avid fans but new avid fans take their place.
You'll start following another sport, and a follower of another sport will take your place as an F1 fan.
Associate
I get what you are saying about the sponsors and indeed this is worrying, but we have seen dramatic falls in viewing figures before. Total dominance is boring to the non F1 fan, I know these are only the UK figures but still:
link to artical incase anyone is interested:
Schumacher vs Vettel: One of a Kind?
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Soldato
"In the round-up: F1 stakeholders will discuss whether shorter race distances coupled with scrapping fuel flow restrictions could increase engine noise" 
"Remi Taffin: “There’s nothing you can do with exhaust profiling because again you’ve got both exhaust pipes running into
the same tailpipe after it has run through the turbo, so it is what it is.”
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2014/04/03/f1-fanatic-round-0304/
I've got a feeling the FIA are about to do something stupid.
"Remi Taffin: “There’s nothing you can do with exhaust profiling because again you’ve got both exhaust pipes running into
the same tailpipe after it has run through the turbo, so it is what it is.”
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2014/04/03/f1-fanatic-round-0304/
I've got a feeling the FIA are about to do something stupid.
Scrapping fuel flow restrictions would at least allow the engines to rev higher and shorter races would permit higher fuel consumption within the current 2014 capacity.In the round-up: F1 stakeholders will discuss whether shorter race distances coupled with scrapping fuel flow restrictions could increase engine noise"
Soldato
But that decline can not be attributed to rule changes alone.
Firstly you have the move to Sky TV, which granted has only affected the UK, but I am sure other TV changes in other countries will have had an affect on worldwide figures.
Then you have the continued move from purely European circuits to more and more far flung countries. This will massively affect certain country viewing figures as if you don't have a home race, the interest will be reduced. 2008 had a French GP, 2009-2014 didn't. I am sure the viewing figures for France probably reduced (although I don't have any numbers to back that up). If the move was from one popular country to another, then I am sure viewers would remain the same as the new country would be increased, but adding Korea or India where there are no viewers, the figures won't go up.
Then you have the rising domination of SV which meant the casual viewers just couldn't be bothered any more.