Pentagon releases UFO footage

Screeeech said:
Have you for a moment, stopped to consider that maybe David Grusch and the people involved with this story, are royally mugging you off?
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Of course and it is possible but given the amount of people involved now it seems unlikely. Its like I said a long time ago I suspect when the truth comes out it will be half way between the people like you who say its all birds and fake and the people who jump right to everything is aliens.

It doesn’t add up to be just a hoax. Why would people on a $150k+ wage give that wage up, risk losing a 1 million dollars retirement pension and risk jail or for some hoax that they don’t get any benefit from? You have yet to give any reasonable reason for them to do this.

Plus we are now at a reported 40 whistle-blowers going though the process. Then we have all the Presidents, I think it was the Defence Secretory of Canada, Israeli Space Security Chief, US Commanders, lots of Senators not just in the US but other county’s like Brazil, Director National Intelligence, lots of Lieutenants, lots of fighter pilots, lots of weapon officer, sensor technicians, Dep. Asst. Secretary of Defence for Intelligence, NASA Astronaut, the U.S. Department of Defence Research and Development Board.

Above is not even a full list these are in addition to above
- Robert Sarbacher, U.S. Department of Defense Research and Development Board (RDB)
- Jim Shell, the former Chief Scientist for Air Force Space Command
- Nat Kobitz, Aeronautical Engineer, Director of Advanced Technology Development & Assessment, Director of Research & Development, and, Program Manager for Advanced Ships/Foreign Shipbuilding
- Jonathan Grey, officer of the US Intelligence Community with a Top-Secret Clearance working for the National Air and Space Intelligence Center (NASIC)
- Eric Davis, astrophysicist
- Stanton Friedman, nuclear physicist
- Garry Nolan, immunologist
- Karl Nell, former Army Colonel
- Arthur Exxon, brigadier general
- Thomas Dubose, brigadier general
- Walter Haut, public information officer at the 509th Bomb Group
- Chase Brandon, ex-CIA agent
- Jesse Marcel, lieutenant colonel
- Philip Corso, American Army officer
- Bob Oeschler, NASA Mission Specialist
- Clifford Stone, US Army sergeant
- Luis Elizondo, former U.S. Army Counterintelligence Special Agent and former employee of the Office of the Under Secretary of Defense for Intelligence
- Colm Kelleher, biochemist who managed AAWSAP contract with Defense Intelligence Agency
- David Grusch, former intelligence official, veteran of the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA) and the National Reconnaissance Office (NRO)
- Wilbert Smith, senior radio engineer for Transport Canada's Broadcast and Measurements Section
- Jose Carlos Pereira, brigadier from Brazilian Air Force

and well the list goes on and on.

The shear volume of people many of which have professions and reputations beyond reproach surly makes people question what is going off. Its not even limited to the US with Brazil, Canada, Israel, France as examples.

Though I am sure you will write this long list off as spam so you can keep saying its just a handful of Charlton’s.

I can ask you the same question. Given the amount of high ranking government officials and military involved have you stopped for a moment to consider perhaps there is something to this? Something odd is going off and a hoax doesn't make sense anymore. To many people who are able to directly see the evidence are saying there is evidence . If its a hoax how do you explain that?


FoxEye said:
“I'd be really curious as to how anything made by humans would be mistaken for something of alien origin.”
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How about low level grunts seeing things from a distance. Spreading rumours about a craft they were on the guard duty for at the perimeter. They didn’t recognise the design and started talking about a UFO craft they guarded one night while out drunk with friends. You know how rumours and stories start up.
A bit like the Stealth Bomber with its at the time never heard of before triangle shape or the Blackbird both got mistaken as UFOs back when they were prototype classified craft. I don’t see how you can tell me it cannot happen as its already happen with the Stealth Bomber and Blackbird craft. Both of which caused many UFO stories back when there where classified craft flying around.

Or you can just look at the “Alien Invasion” going off in Peru when now as in yesterday and tonight as an example of how people can mistake something as Alien.


jigger said:
Private firms are not going to be funding or running a reverse engineering program of ET’s ship.
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You really don’t understand the interactions or how it all works do you? Just how many facts is that you have got wrong now? I have lost count. Who do you think does all the R&D and reverse engineering?
 
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Pottsey said:
Of course and it is possible but given the amount of people involved now it seems unlikely. Its like I said a long time ago I suspect when the truth comes out it will be half way between the people like you who say its all birds and fake and the people who jump right to everything is aliens.

It doesn’t add up to be just a hoax. Why would people on a $150k+ wage give that wage up, risk losing a 1 million dollars retirement pension and risk jail or for some hoax that they don’t get any benefit from? You have yet to give any reasonable reason for them to do this.

Plus we are now at a reported 40 whistle-blowers going though the process. Then we have all the Presidents, I think it was the Defence Secretory of Canada, Israeli Space Security Chief, US Commanders, lots of Senators not just in the US but other county’s like Brazil, Director National Intelligence, lots of Lieutenants, lots of fighter pilots, lots of weapon officer, sensor technicians, Dep. Asst. Secretary of Defence for Intelligence, NASA Astronaut, the U.S. Department of Defence Research and Development Board.

Above is not even a full list these are in addition to above
- Robert Sarbacher, U.S. Department of Defense Research and Development Board (RDB)
- Jim Shell, the former Chief Scientist for Air Force Space Command
- Nat Kobitz, Aeronautical Engineer, Director of Advanced Technology Development & Assessment, Director of Research & Development, and, Program Manager for Advanced Ships/Foreign Shipbuilding
- Jonathan Grey, officer of the US Intelligence Community with a Top-Secret Clearance working for the National Air and Space Intelligence Center (NASIC)
- Eric Davis, astrophysicist
- Stanton Friedman, nuclear physicist
- Garry Nolan, immunologist
- Karl Nell, former Army Colonel
- Arthur Exxon, brigadier general
- Thomas Dubose, brigadier general
- Walter Haut, public information officer at the 509th Bomb Group
- Chase Brandon, ex-CIA agent
- Jesse Marcel, lieutenant colonel
- Philip Corso, American Army officer
- Bob Oeschler, NASA Mission Specialist
- Clifford Stone, US Army sergeant
- Luis Elizondo, former U.S. Army Counterintelligence Special Agent and former employee of the Office of the Under Secretary of Defense for Intelligence
- Colm Kelleher, biochemist who managed AAWSAP contract with Defense Intelligence Agency
- David Grusch, former intelligence official, veteran of the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA) and the National Reconnaissance Office (NRO)
- Wilbert Smith, senior radio engineer for Transport Canada's Broadcast and Measurements Section
- Jose Carlos Pereira, brigadier from Brazilian Air Force

and well the list goes on and on.

The shear volume of people many of which have professions and reputations beyond reproach surly makes people question what is going off. Its not even limited to the US with Brazil, Canada, Israel, France as examples.

Though I am sure you will write this long list off as spam so you can keep saying its just a handful of Charlton’s.

I can ask you the same question. Given the amount of high ranking government officials and military involved have you stopped for a moment to consider perhaps there is something to this? Something odd is going off and a hoax doesn't make sense anymore. To many people who are able to directly see the evidence are saying there is evidence . If its a hoax how do you explain that?



How about low level grunts seeing things from a distance. Spreading rumours about a craft they were on the guard duty for at the perimeter. They didn’t recognise the design and started talking about a UFO craft they guarded one night while out drunk with friends. You know how rumours and stories start up.
A bit like the Stealth Bomber with its at the time never heard of before triangle shape or the Blackbird both got mistaken as UFOs back when they were prototype classified craft. I don’t see how you can tell me it cannot happen as its already happen with the Stealth Bomber and Blackbird craft. Both of which caused many UFO stories back when there where classified craft flying around.

Or you can just look at the “Alien Invasion” going off in Peru when now as in yesterday and tonight as an example of how people can mistake something as Alien.



You really don’t understand the interactions or how it all works do you? Just how many facts is that you have got wrong now? I have lost count. Who do you think does all the R&D and reverse engineering?
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All that and zero evidence. Not a single scrap. Just a lot of spitballs and tall tales.
 
Pottsey said:
How about low level grunts seeing things from a distance. Spreading rumours about a craft they were on the guard duty for at the perimeter. They didn’t recognise the design and started talking about a UFO craft they guarded one night while out drunk with friends. You know how rumours and stories start up.
A bit like the Stealth Bomber with its at the time never heard of before triangle shape or the Blackbird both got mistaken as UFOs back when they were prototype classified craft. I don’t see how you can tell me it cannot happen as its already happen with the Stealth Bomber and Blackbird craft. Both of which caused many UFO stories back when there where classified craft flying around.

Or you can just look at the “Alien Invasion” going off in Peru when now as in yesterday and tonight as an example of how people can mistake something as Alien.
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I thought we were talking about allegations of recovery and reverse engineering? Are we not?
 
Pottsey said:
Though I am sure you will write this long list off as spam so you can keep saying its just a handful of Charlton’s.
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lol it's, "charlatans"

To be honest, it is really all spam without any evidence.

There are some interesting names in that list though, I mean Luis Elizondo - totally full of ****, if you gave him an enema you could bury him in a matchbox.

But there are other names like Garry Nolan who is a very clever guy as far as I can tell, with plenty of money - I'm just confused because I find it odd that he decided to get involved with flying-saucers and aliens, it doesn't make sense.

Maybe he needs more money? I've worked in the US alongside very very rich people and I know that to them - it's never enough, so maybe someone is paying him off to get involved, because it doesn't make sense for someone like that to get involved, as talking about aliens - doesn't exactly get you very far in real science.

One reason I think this is all a hoax, is it does bear some of the hallmarks of Theranos - get a whole load of influential people involved, get investments from them - we've already had this with TTSA (who are now being investigated for fraud), create this huge facade that it's legit by plastering scientists and politicans all over it.
 
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Pottsey said:
A bit like the Stealth Bomber with its at the time never heard of before triangle shape or the Blackbird both got mistaken as UFOs back when they were prototype classified craft. I don’t see how you can tell me it cannot happen as its already happen with the Stealth Bomber and Blackbird craft. Both of which caused many UFO stories back when there where classified craft flying around.
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I think we all know there is secret craft being worked on, that's a no brainer however you are posting about super secret craft that break all known rules of flying, going at stupid speeds and controlled by non humans.

I always like the story of how Russia finally identified the Stealth Bomber, for many months people had seen UFOs flying over Russia so one week all the military all over Russia were ordered to look up into the sky, report and there it was.
 
Screeeech said:
lol it's, "charlatans"

To be honest, it is really all spam without any evidence.

There are some interesting names in that list though, I mean Luis Elizondo - totally full of ****, if you gave him an enema you could bury him in a matchbox.

But there are other names like Garry Nolan who is a very clever guy as far as I can tell, with plenty of money - I'm just confused because I find it odd that he decided to get involved with flying-saucers and aliens, it doesn't make sense.

Maybe he needs more money? I've worked in the US alongside very very rich people and I know that to them - it's never enough, so maybe someone is paying him off to get involved, because it doesn't make sense for someone like that to get involved, as talking about aliens - doesn't exactly get you very far in real science.

One reason I think this is all a hoax, is it does bear some of the hallmarks of Theranos - get a whole load of influential people involved, get investments from them - we've already had this with TTSA (who are now being investigated for fraud), create this huge facade that it's legit by plastering scientists and politicans all over it.
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Money doesn't make sense because a lot of them already have money and many of them are losing money by getting involved. Plus how would a hoax of this scale even work? They are not making money from this, many of them are losing money. Your hoax idea sounds very much like a world wide conspiracy theory. Your idea is based on zero evidence and just doesn't make any sense what so ever given who is involved and the amount of people. For a hoax to work there has to be world wide conspiracy, very, very convincing fake evidence pre planted in world wide military systems and a massive amount of people being fooled many of which are some of the best intelligence officers in the world. A hoax that has somehow fooled multiple governments, multiple military's and world wide people. Your hoax idea just doesn't make sense.




FoxEye said:
I thought we were talking about allegations of recovery and reverse engineering? Are we not?
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It depends if we are talking about my idea or the Ryan Graves Grusch claim. Those two are saying a crashed UFO/UAP that is being reversed engineering. I am saying a perhaps its an experimental prototype human craft possibly mistaken as a UFO and possibly but not necessarily recovery by a rival and reversed engineered. Its just an idea that might explain some of what is being reported. I am not saying my idea is right, I am just trying to offer what I see as a more likely alternatives then a crashed UFO/UAP that is being reversed engineering.


jigger said:
All that and zero evidence. Not a single scrap. Just a lot of spitballs and tall tales.
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So how do you explain world wide governments, military staff, Intelligence staff, Defence Secretory not limited to just US but Canada, France and Brazil all saying the same thing? You think all those high ranking people suddenly decided to create the same fake story for no reason? How do you explain all those officials who have access to the evidence and say the evidence is real? Do you think every single one of the is lying to us as that sounds very much a lot like a conspiracy theory you are pushing out as your theory.
 
Pottsey said:
Money doesn't make sense because a lot of them already have money and many of them are losing money by getting involved. Plus how would a hoax of this scale even work? They are not making money from this, many of them are losing money. Your hoax idea sounds very much like a world wide conspiracy theory. Your idea is based on zero evidence and just doesn't make any sense what so ever given who is involved and the amount of people. For a hoax to work there has to be world wide conspiracy, very, very convincing fake evidence pre planted in world wide military systems and a massive amount of people being fooled many of which are some of the best intelligence officers in the world. A hoax that has somehow fooled multiple governments, multiple military's and world wide people. Your hoax idea just doesn't make sense.





It depends if we are talking about my idea or the Ryan Graves Grusch claim. Those two are saying a crashed UFO/UAP that is being reversed engineering. I am saying a perhaps its an experimental prototype human craft possibly mistaken as a UFO and possibly but not necessarily recovery by a rival and reversed engineered. Its just an idea that might explain some of what is being reported. I am not saying my idea is right, I am just trying to offer what I see as a more likely alternatives then a crashed UFO/UAP that is being reversed engineering.



So how do you explain world wide governments, military staff, Intelligence staff, Defence Secretory not limited to just US but Canada, France and Brazil all saying the same thing? You think all those high ranking people suddenly decided to create the same fake story for no reason? How do you explain all those officials who have access to the evidence and say the evidence is real? Do you think every single one of the is lying to us as that sounds very much a lot like a conspiracy theory you are pushing out as your theory.
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I’ve stated what I think. Extraordinary and incredible claims have been made. Claims that are just baseless nonsense unless they are backed up with Extraordinary irrefutable evidence. These claims are so outlandish they question our understanding of reality.

The question you should be asking is how can you believe these people.
 
jigger said:
I’ve stated what I think. Extraordinary and incredible claims have been made. Claims that are just baseless nonsense unless they are backed up with Extraordinary irrefutable evidence. These claims are so outlandish they question our understanding of reality.

The question you should be asking is how can you believe these people.
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Its not a matter of believing them outright. It is about giving them the benefit of the doubt and not dismissing them out of hand. There is now a massive amount of circumstantial evidence and a large amount of reliable people some of which have directly accessed the main evidence and confirmed it.
As for Why? Due the sheer volume of them, many of them have nothing to gain and everything to lose if they are lying, many of them are honourable with reputations beyond reproach so I don't think they are lying.

That and as of this month too many people have independently seen the classified evidence and said its real and those people had security clearance to view the evidence. How do you explain that away?

The problem you have is too many people are involved now for a hoax to make sense and explain it all away. The alternative you seem to be pushing is a massive world wide conspiracy theory hoax which is an extraordinary and incredible claim that as you say requires extraordinary irrefutable evidence which you have not provided. There is more evidence this is real then your conspiracy theory of a worldwide hoax. Given how much you have got wrong in this thread and how unreliable your past ideas and statements have been, I don't believe you.

I am not saying you should believe it blindly only that dismissing everything out of hand is a rather silly thing to do at this stage with the amount of evidence something is going off. If it turns out to be real or as I suspect partly real, you Jigger, Screeech and the others cannot hold your hand up and say but there was no signs, there was no way we could have known.

EDIT: As for no evidence in this thread 10,000's of declassified official files many from the CIA I think it was have been provided. These are a form of evidence even if you want to pretend otherwise.
 
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Pottsey said:
It is about giving them the benefit of the doubt and not dismissing them out of hand.
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This is the wrong way to approach a problem like this, the default position should be to cast doubt and ask questions.

We’re at the point where nothing I say to you matters, because your position being as irrational as it is - is fixed in place by blind faith.

However I think this article from SETI sums it up well, if they had any reason to think it was legit, I imagine SETI would have something to say about it:

www.seti.org

The truth is out there. But this UFO ‘whistleblower’ likely doesn’t have it.

On Wednesday, David Grusch, a former military intelligence officer, told a House Oversight subcommittee that all those stories you’ve read on the internet are true: The government has debris collected from crashed alien spacecraft. He also told the assembled lawmakers that federal retrieval...
www.seti.org www.seti.org
 
Pottsey said:
Its not a matter of believing them outright. It is about giving them the benefit of the doubt and not dismissing them out of hand. There is now a massive amount of circumstantial evidence and a large amount of reliable people some of which have directly accessed the main evidence and confirmed it.
As for Why? Due the sheer volume of them, many of them have nothing to gain and everything to lose if they are lying, many of them are honourable with reputations beyond reproach so I don't think they are lying.

That and as of this month too many people have independently seen the classified evidence and said its real and those people had security clearance to view the evidence. How do you explain that away?

The problem you have is too many people are involved now for a hoax to make sense and explain it all away. The alternative you seem to be pushing is a massive world wide conspiracy theory hoax which is an extraordinary and incredible claim that as you say requires extraordinary irrefutable evidence which you have not provided. There is more evidence this is real then your conspiracy theory of a worldwide hoax. Given how much you have got wrong in this thread and how unreliable your past ideas and statements have been, I don't believe you.

I am not saying you should believe it blindly only that dismissing everything out of hand is a rather silly thing to do at this stage with the amount of evidence something is going off. If it turns out to be real or as I suspect partly real, you Jigger, Screeech and the others cannot hold your hand up and say but there was no signs, there was no way we could have known.

EDIT: As for no evidence in this thread 10,000's of declassified official files many from the CIA I think it was have been provided. These are a form of evidence even if you want to pretend otherwise.
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Ok, what you’ve done is to tell people how they perceive the world around them and understand it is wrong, because these supernatural claims could become possible once you insert the element of the supernatural. I’m saying first prove the supernatural, then we could consider the evidence which is certainly at least 99.9% nonsense. Your retort to this is, we have so many people claiming so much supernatural nonsense this should be enough evidence in itself for others to also believe in the supernatural. The .1% has to be significantly amazballz inter dimensional alien tech, so it’s you that’s in the wrong, your doing it wrong! vitriol, vitriol.

Some aerospace firm could be flying around a prototype jet or drone illegally, but it’s not described in any statements or a reverse engineered alien craft because performance of the acts claimed rule out that possibility and all that remains is again faith in the supernatural.

Outside of political points scoring, who cares if say the .1% is some aerospace firm illegally flying an unknown craft around the US.
 
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Pottsey said:
So how do you explain world wide governments, military staff, Intelligence staff, Defence Secretory not limited to just US but Canada, France and Brazil all saying the same thing? You think all those high ranking people suddenly decided to create the same fake story for no reason? How do you explain all those officials who have access to the evidence and say the evidence is real? Do you think every single one of the is lying to us as that sounds very much a lot like a conspiracy theory you are pushing out as your theory.
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It's not our job to explain any it.

Submit the evidence and we'll see what conclusions we draw from that.
 
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Pottsey said:
So how do you explain world wide governments, military staff, Intelligence staff, Defence Secretory not limited to just US but Canada, France and Brazil all saying the same thing? You think all those high ranking people suddenly decided to create the same fake story for no reason? How do you explain all those officials who have access to the evidence and say the evidence is real? Do you think every single one of the is lying to us as that sounds very much a lot like a conspiracy theory you are pushing out as your theory.
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Are they? All these agencies are saying there is proof of alien life, crashed alien spaceships, recovered alien bodies...
Let's not beat about the bush. We're talking aliens, here. Little green men.

If all those agencies (globally) have instead simply documented reports of UAPs, that's a great big nothing burger. UAPs encompasses everything from a blurry photo of a bird to a funny cloud formation. It's well known and proven beyond any doubt that humans are unreliable witnesses.

But if all those global agencies are saying they've made first contact, then please could you provide some evidence for that?

Global reports of UAPs requires no conspiracy. It's adequately explained by human nature, and the popularity of the X-Files!

What would require a global conspiracy would be global suppression of advanced alien tech and alien encounters. Before Grusch and his band of merry men came along ;)
 
The problem is, Pottsey has a habit of hyper-inflating things, for example he makes statements like the above, but when you look at the detail - with regards to the central original claim being made by David Grusch, there's only a handful of people involved:

Leslie Kean (The Debrief)
Ralph Blumenthal (The Debrief)
Ross Coultard (NewsNation)
David Grusch.

(citation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Grusch_UFO_whistleblower_claims)

Those are basically the four main people who've been involved with the original claim, in terms of getting the details from Grusch, making a news story out of it, selling it to everyone else - then causing a hullabaloo by getting the government involved. (because the US government are stupid and full of idiots)

The rest of it is all just baseless, all this talk of thousands of documents, thousands of people, all of the things, everywhere - there's no details anywhere on any of it that we can see.

In the final analysis, the source for all of this - is basically very small, one person with some creds - the rest a bunch of journalists (who also happen to be long-time UFO people) peddling a story.

Nothing in it is really original or even very interesting, and most people can't even be arsed to publish the story, because most people outside of /r/UFOs are like "yeeeeaaa whatever"
 
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Pottsey said:
The source is not Google. The source are the official files like the files entered into the official record from the Congress briefings and other official files along with what was said at the Congress Briefing itself.
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My point was not about how you got to them m, it was about what insights you have to be informed about what it means in the wider context. It’s one aspect of a huge debate and not a huge one imho….but what do I know.
 
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