Philips 20" 200W6CS Widescreen TFT LCD

I've gone from enthusiasm to wary caution now with all the latest developments. :(

Until I get a hardcore gamer here saying they can pull off headshots left, right and centre in any fast-paced FPS then i'll hold off I think. :(
 
Richdog said:
I've gone from enthusiasm to wary caution now with all the latest developments. :(

Until I get a hardcore gamer here saying they can pull off headshots left, right and centre in any fast-paced FPS then i'll hold off I think. :(
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Well I can do that with my current Dell 15" 25ms screen ;)

You want me to try a fast fps game ?
 
So with the current unsure feeling on ANY of the 8ms 20.1" WS monitors would you advise me to go for a smaller one?

I am thinking either the Samsung 930BF @ ~£240 of the 730BF @ ~£200

Or of course the Philips 20" 200W6CS Widescreen is still an option @ £350 - worth the money?
 
Richdog said:
If you have a Phillips then yes please, test it fussy-style! :D
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It's sat at home waiting for me ! :D

I'll get some game going later to really test it. The problem I have is that I seem to be used to a 'slow' screen, in that the ghosting on my current screen hardly bothers me at all. I'll try to be highly critical though.
 
DJsean said:
So with the current unsure feeling on ANY of the 8ms 20.1" WS monitors would you advise me to go for a smaller one?

I am thinking either the Samsung 930BF @ ~£240 of the 730BF @ ~£200

Or of course the Philips 20" 200W6CS Widescreen is still an option @ £350 - worth the money?
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the modern Fast TN panels like the 930BF and VX922 are certainly the most responsive panels in the market right now. The TN technolgoy is tranditionally very good for gaming and these are heavily overdriven as well to boost response time. There are some good overdriven PVA and MVA panels like the Viewsonic VP930, Samsung 970P and the likes. The Belinea 102035W is effectively a larger version of the VP930 and BeHardware rated it quite highly for gaming, comparable to the VP930. I'd be interested to hear more reviews on it however from places like Toms Hardware and X-Bit labs, but this is probably the "safest" bet in the 20" fast market right now not using TN Film technology. The Philips 200W6CS sounds like it shoudl be good from the spec and early reports here, but i am skeptical myself about the real performance improvements of the panel, if indeed Philips have opted to stick with the S-IPS panel as we think is the case.

I cant get clarification of what they are using, but it looks like an updated version of the 16ms S-IPS panel used in the Dell 2005FPW and 200W6CS previously. I hope it's not the case, but there is always the chance they have exagerated things on spec to keep up with modern trends. Maybe they have used overdrive, whether this is effective in improving real performance is another matter. This would be the first venture of overdrive into the IPS technology market, and until there are reviews at THG, BH and X-Bit then i would be wary of trusting the listed spec. It has been known for manufacturers to update the spec with the application of overdrive, but not really improve things in real use. For example the Samsung 193P+ 8ms updated from 20ms 193P didnt really show much real life improvement, and it wasnt til Samsung improved their PVA panel to 6ms for the 970P that we began to see a real improvement in that technology
 
Seirrah said:
So how do these reviewers measure response time anyway ?
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using a photosensor and advanced equipment attached to the screen., they then draw an oscillogram while they change the pixels underneath the photosensor. It doesnt always give a full proof indication of real life performance of the panel to the user, but is a useful tool nonetheless. It helps show true responsiveness of the panel compared with the manufacturer's quoted specs and compared with other panels in the market.
 
...the new nice looking NEC is using a S-IPS (8ms) panel too.

Doesn't IPS (the collaboration) have some sort of web presence? Surely there they would be happy to tel the world that they are releasing new faster panels etc
 
Baddass said:
using a photosensor and advanced equipment attached to the screen., they then draw an oscillogram while they change the pixels underneath the photosensor. It doesnt always give a full proof indication of real life performance of the panel to the user, but is a useful tool nonetheless. It helps show true responsiveness of the panel compared with the manufacturer's quoted specs and compared with other panels in the market.
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I'm only I could bring my screen into my lab, as I'm doing a phd in opto-electronics and I'm sure I could find something to make some meaurements ...maybe :p :rolleyes:
 
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IPS is the type of technology, not the manufacturer. It stands for In Plane Switching and is a tech developed by LG.Philips. They list their panels on their official site here:

http://www.lgphilips-lcd.com/homeContain/jsp/eng/prd/prd200_j_e.jsp

however, this hasn't been updated for a while, and from my understanding, they hadnt really made any new developments with their IPS technology in quite some time, and have not used overdrive either for this panel technology.

I am beginning to be a bit skeptical about a few things though:

- the panel spec of the 200W6CS is identical to the 8ms P-MVA panel from AUO. The viewing angles of 176 / 176 quoted are also indicative of MVA rather than IPS which are normally listed at 178 / 178. However, an LG.Philips S-IPS panel seems likely since the screen is from Philips
- like i said, ive not heard of overdrive being used for the IPS panels. Im worried that it could be largely marketing with no real improvements in real use

- The Viewsonic VX2025WM also mentioned here is the same spec and prad.de list it as an IPS panel. Viewsonic have used AUO panels for a long time, i think it would be far more likely for them to use the 8ms P-MVA panel from AUO and not an IPS panel from LG.Philips
 
i noticed those two as well. I've spoken to Vincent Alzieu from BeHardware this afternoon who tells me that as far as he knows there are no new "fast IPS" panels out at the moment, but there might well be soon. If you read about the LG 2040P here at BH you can see a similar confusion. LG list it as IPs, and insisted to BH that it was IPS. however, it looked and felt like a P-MVA panel and when they checked through the menu it was listed as AUO! Confusing situation for sure. Waiting to hear back more from Vincent too about it and from LG.Philips too
 
Maybe LG and Philips are secretly releasing AUO panels on the quiet to keep near the front end of the market.

Well that is my 'Sunday night prime-time viewing' suggestion anyway :p
 
Raymond Lin said:
well, this is interesting.

I did the test on my Acer Al1722 TN panel which is a 8ms panel for certain (I have dual monitor, just dragged it acrossed the desktop.). And the program "sync" at 16ms. Did the same on the Phillips, and it also sync at 16ms.

So either my Acer TFT is a 16ms panel (not likely), or that the program is slightly off since both screen sync at the same response time and that the Phillips is a 8ms panel since it sync in the same time as my Acer screen.

In actual fact, it sync best at 15ms.
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Same happens on my Samsung 913N, also a 8ms panel.

I think the LCD_pixel_text application can measure the response time up to the refresh rate set in Windows.
60Hz should yield 16.667 ms.

I tried again with the monitor set at 75Hz and it sync. at around 13ms (which is about 1000/75).

So, I think it can only tell if the monitor is good enough to support (at least) the refresh rate set in Windows.

Cheers,
_EnF_
 
Raymond Lin said:
What is the colours like on the Belinea in comparison ?
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Sorry about the slow response, I've been at work all day.

The colours on the Belinea and the Philips are both very good, but I did think that the colours on the Belinea did seem a bit washed around the edges. My brother who also looked at the Belinea thought the same thing. Maybe because the effect of the backlight bleeding.

I definetely do rate the philips as the better monitor. It looks better (my opionion), has better build quality and deals with the aspect ratio's better than the Belinea. When I had my Belinea, the monitor had no way of keeping the original aspect ratio of 4:3 resolutions. It would just stretch everything.

But I don't have that problem with the Philips.
 
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