Pimax 8k is live
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Socks with sandals, oh dear...
Soldato
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Shame they sent him the old v2 prototype. Should have waited imo.
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He was quite positive about the screens though, and he didn't say the headtracking was awful, he said it had some issues...overall I'd say that was fairly positive. If it's the most critical review around I'm reassured I'll be getting something that will work for me...
He did say he has limited experience with VR. I don't think he mentioned anything along the lines of poor tracking, it shouldn't have as it uses the same lighthouse system as the Vive. What he did describe was the quick onset of nausea which could be down to poor lense design combined with the wide flat panels (why aren't they using curved?), less than 90Hz operation or the fact that these are LCD based rather than OLED.
Overall the Pimax will operate just as a Vive does while requiring much more hardware to drive the displays. The 8k has 2 4k panels but only accepts 1440p input which is then upscaled (don't confuse this with super sampling). The 8k X has 2 4k panels and requires 2 inputs from the video card, good luck trying to drive these with a steady 90 FPS.
I really like the wider FOV but feel affordable hardware to drive it at the high resolutions is some way off. This leaves Pimax with a very small market which I can't see developers supporting, but it does need support for that wide FOV without stretching. It has taken some time for games to support the ultra wide panels, indeed some new releases still don't.
Just a passing thought, but I wonder if wider fov needs higher refresh rates. I'm thinking our peripheral vision is a lot more sensitive to framerate? I remember being able to detect refresh rate on crt monitors in my peripheral. Same with my rgb keyboard. Straight on I can't really see the strobe effect, but in my peripherals it is very noticeable, almost distracting at times.
Now in the run up to cv1, when headsets were 75hz, a lot felt nauseous compared to when it went up to 90. So maybe, 90 is good for straight ahead but need higher so the peripheral vision doesnt cause nausea.
Or maybe, it is so immersive that the brain finds it even harder not to get confused = more susceptible to the sick feeling.
Now in the run up to cv1, when headsets were 75hz, a lot felt nauseous compared to when it went up to 90. So maybe, 90 is good for straight ahead but need higher so the peripheral vision doesnt cause nausea.
Or maybe, it is so immersive that the brain finds it even harder not to get confused = more susceptible to the sick feeling.
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Don't overthink it, the truth is the V2 did not have adjustable IPD. Many who tried it noticed some warping in the peripheral vision, while many more said it was perfect and had no stretching. This alone indicated it is more likely an IPD issue which will be resolved in the final version.
Overall I liked his review because he points out the negatives as well as the positives. Some of the gushing reviews I have seen from folks who tested for 30 minutes leave me thinking they are too OTT with praise. I'm hoping they are of course accurate
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Newer prototypes are already in the works to address this issue. This review was done on v2 prototype, v3 already has working IPD and improved lenses. Pimax intend to create another prototype or two prior to final production version.
I disagree, Pimax 8K will not operate just as Vive/Rift does, it will offer significantly improved IQ and FOV. Bear in mind people are currently using Rift or Vive with 1060 or RX 480 GPUs (or equivalent) and are getting nowhere near 90FPS. Just because Pimax 5K/8K/8K X require even beefier HW to run does not invalidate them. It is also worth noting that up-scaling from 1440p to 4K does improve IQ because there is significantly reduced SDE. This has been verified by people who have tried both the 5K and 8K prototypes.
OpenVR or SteamVR already do support the extra wide FOV without stretching. Regarding "affordable HW" that is purely subjective because to many GTX 1080 (or equivalent), is "affordable" and is already running Pimax 8K reasonably well. Don't forget, when Rift CV1 and HTC Vive were released the same issue of the HW to run them was too expensive.
Basically if Pimax deliver a headset that improves on what v2 prototype already delivers, it will be a far superior product to any existing HMD as far as IQ goes.
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Don't overthink it, the truth is the V2 did not have adjustable IPD. Many who tried it noticed some warping in the peripheral vision, while many more said it was perfect and had no stretching. This alone indicated it is more likely an IPD issue which will be resolved in the final version.
Overall I liked his review because he points out the negatives as well as the positives. Some of the gushing reviews I have seen from folks who tested for 30 minutes leave me thinking they are too OTT with praise. I'm hoping they are of course accurate
hahah yeh just over thinking. I can't quite understand why they would give Linus a v2 to test when they have v3 with these issues fixed. What are they thinking? VR is still in it's infancy and we need reviews of the best to offer. Not reviews of prototypes that will make casual onlookers think it still isn't quite there yet.
I want as many people in as fast as possible. Let's get this mainstream. It doesn't help when people as big as Linus are reporting nausea. Many who may be interested, may not even know that these issues are meant to be sorted in v3. They may take this 1st impressions as an excuse to wait it out even longer. Surely you would get your v3 tested by Linus, knowing the power his opinion can have.
Upscaling 1440p to 4k improves IQ? I read that it's because of the greatly reduced SDE. But, from my experience the lower res of the psvr actually has a lot less SDE aswell.
When Rift came out, i already owned a 1080. Since then, the gpu's out now are maybe 30% faster? However, i read a comparison saying that the pimax 8k is in the same boat as the rift/vive when they came out... Since then Gpu's are ~ 30% faster, whilst the 8k X is how many 100's of percent more pixels. The delta between the top gpu's and the 8k X is far far larger than it ever was for Rift/Vive.
The reason why i make the above points is:
Would it be possible to have 2x 1440p screens with next to no SDE? That would half the gpu power needed, and keep the clarity of a non upscaled picture. But for Pimax, this may not be a good option as from a marketing pov they already released 4k, and 8K is the next big thing. 2x1440p may have seemed like a step backwards and stopped many jumping on the kickstarter.
When Rift came out, i already owned a 1080. Since then, the gpu's out now are maybe 30% faster? However, i read a comparison saying that the pimax 8k is in the same boat as the rift/vive when they came out... Since then Gpu's are ~ 30% faster, whilst the 8k X is how many 100's of percent more pixels. The delta between the top gpu's and the 8k X is far far larger than it ever was for Rift/Vive.
The reason why i make the above points is:
Would it be possible to have 2x 1440p screens with next to no SDE? That would half the gpu power needed, and keep the clarity of a non upscaled picture. But for Pimax, this may not be a good option as from a marketing pov they already released 4k, and 8K is the next big thing. 2x1440p may have seemed like a step backwards and stopped many jumping on the kickstarter.
I was referring to its operation, not the visual difference. Bear in mind that those running with a 1060 or RX 480 will not be plugging a Pimax in without throwing up. As far as the SDE goes, I don't even notice it now. What is nice is the reported reduction of god rays.
Affordable hardware was in consideration to the market share that could run such a HMD. What percentage of Titan XP/1080Ti owners are bothering with VR? If there are no problems with ALL of Steam's titles, why are we not seeing 90FPS during a full race in Project Cars 2, Elite Dangerous, etc.? I am reading else where that to make proper use of the FOV then developers will need to use the Pimax SDK.
Image detail will certainly have improved but if you can't keep the frame rates stable at 90 then the quality is questionable. Even the fact that they have downgraded to LCD tech rather than OLED is very off putting.
It's called the Pimax 5k. Not sure what the SDE is like on this version.
Apologies for cutting the rest of your post but to focus on the above, do you apply the same criteria to the Rift or Vive? Both HMDs are totally incapable of maintaining 90Hz in most games using RX 480 or GTX1060. Does this make Rift and Vive of questionable quality?
I will be upfront and state I hated Rift CV1 IQ problems so much I have not once missed it once since it broke. I promised myself I would not invest in VR until these IQ issues were addressed. Pimax 8K (and to a lesser extent the 5K) are at least going to address most of these problems.
Pima8K has a sharper image and less SDE than the 5K according to testers of both. Having said that I believe the 5K was initially going to have OLED but it is now getting the same CLPL tech as the 8K.
That did peak my interest until i saw it was 200 fov so i'm guessing that makes the ppd lower than that of the rift. I'd be upgrading one aspect but downgrading another. I'm actually really interested in the 8K X. I have my doubts, and as the vr scene's so small and i think its the greatest. I can't help but throw some of my own thoughts in. Keep reading about the 8K, it's big news at the moment. For the moment my imagined perfect balance for todays tech could possibly be the 5K with ~160 fov. Would run most games quite well on a ti, lowering settings on a few titles. Upgraded fov & ppd. Good for the newcomers as it will definitely be an upgrade, not as high chance that people will be put off that their pc with a titan can't handle it in many games. No upscaling oled. Maybe more of a .5 upgrade for current users, and one the enthusiasts will still enjoy.
Someone on another forum has tried the following HMDs. He scores them in terms of pixel density and lack of SDE.
vive: 30/100
rift cv1: 35/100
odyssey: 40/100
pimax 8k: at least 60/100
Where 100 would be the average quality perceived with a full hd monitor. Anyone who tested the 5K Pimax have put it around Odyssey level, so still improved over Rift CV1/Vive.
vive: 30/100
rift cv1: 35/100
odyssey: 40/100
pimax 8k: at least 60/100
Where 100 would be the average quality perceived with a full hd monitor. Anyone who tested the 5K Pimax have put it around Odyssey level, so still improved over Rift CV1/Vive.
Well that sounds good. Can't wait to check one of these out
Just can't help think a little less fov for a little more sharpness hehe
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I have been toying with the idea of getting a pc based VR system (currently have a PSVR setup which is very enjoyable), looking at everything I am suspecting the Pimax 5k setup may be good way in, especially for someone who has to buy the full kit and caboodle (gaming PC included).
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Kickstarter is closed, there won't be any retail sales until the pledged units are shipped, which will likely be towards the second half of 2018. Safe option for anyone new to VR is the Rift right now. Once you get into it the resolution shortcomings are fairly easy to ignore or get used to so don't be put off by that.
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There are discussions around doing an extra lens kit for the pimax that reduces the FOV to increase the ppd. I hope they go ahead with it - 150fov would still be a massive improvement over current headsets.
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Is that effectively reducing the gpu load to help with performance? can't be a bad thing rather than expecting everyone to buy a 1080Ti...seems sensible
Am I right in thinking (I think one of the reviews mentioned it) the overlapped screens do 140 fov the lenses do the rest anyway?