Poll: Poll: Are you happy with your ADSL Max?

[marc2003]

<snip>

come on admit it. you work for belkin don't you....

 

[smids]

come on admit it. you work for belkin don't you....

I resent such an accusation - no seriously, I don't but I am extremely happy with my new router. I'm like a child with a new toy! I can't stop fiddling with it - and no, not like that you sicko's!

I guess that's how one feels having put up with Netgear for 2.5 years only to find out that they are pants. If you search ADSLGuide, you'll find my thread asking about a new router and being recommended the Belkin and the Speedtouch 536/546.

 

[FunkyT]

You believe wrong then.

Unless your filters are dodgy, using your phone won't make an ounce of odds, and crosstalk between ADSL and the voice service doesn't exist.

Whilst they operate a different frequencies there is bound to be a relationship between the ADSL and voice signal.

The filter removes most of noise, however, there can be issues with noise generated by the phone, and stray frequencies. Although it's probably not as much as I initially thought. Good filters will as you say keep most of it out but as for being no crosstalk at all then I would very much doubt it.

There are issues with a "high bearer" whereby the ADSL signal only operates when the phone is off the hook. BT know of this problem, so there is a relationship between voice and the ADSL signal.

 

[marc2003]

I resent such an accusation - no seriously, I don't but I am extremely happy with my new router. I'm like a child with a new toy! I can't stop fiddling with it - and no, not like that you sicko's!

I guess that's how one feels having put up with Netgear for 2.5 years only to find out that they are pants. If you search ADSLGuide, you'll find my thread asking about a new router and being recommended the Belkin and the Speedtouch 536/546.

i'm currently on my first router after years of using a usb modem. it's a bt voyager 2500v but apparently has the same chipset as your belkin....

 

[smids]

Yeah, there are several ones out there. Speedtouch 536/546, that BT one, Belkin, Netgear DG834GT and a few others. Some are flakier than others in their implementation though e.g. Netgear.

 

[tolien]

The filter removes most of noise, however, there can be issues with noise generated by the phone, and stray frequencies.

Only on the voice side. The ADSL side is unfiltered...

as for being no crosstalk at all then I would very much doubt it.

Given there's a massive frequency difference, I'd very much doubt that there's any significant connection.
Not using your phone to preserve your ADSL's SNR margin is idiotic at best, and a total waste of time.

There are issues with a "high bearer" whereby the ADSL signal only operates when the phone is off the hook. BT know of this problem, so there is a relationship between voice and the ADSL signal.

There's a difference between an electrical fault (what you describe is also called a high resistance fault, and is quite often the product of a break in the pair which "fixes" itself as a product of the voltage drawn when you pick the phone up) and crosstalk, which is what you were initially implying.

 

[FunkyT]

Only on the voice side. The ADSL side is unfiltered...

Given there's a massive frequency difference, I'd very much doubt that there's any significant connection.
Not using your phone to preserve your ADSL's SNR margin is idiotic at best, and a total waste of time.

There may not be a significant impact but I just tested the effect of using a telephone. There is a clear reduction of 1db noise margin - whether of not this is significant is a moot point.

I'm currently of the belief that it's better to use the phones so as to give a "real" test of the ADSL Max stablility... there wouldn't be much point in having a stable service without telephones but an unstable one with them

 

[aaazza]

Thanks for participation all. By the looks of the poll (although it isn't a huge represenation) the response was as I thought, not a vast majority satisfied at the moment with their ADSL Max service and quite a few still reluctant to move over until the 'problems' either become less significant or go away.

Keep voting if you haven't!

Also, are those that are happy with their MAX service and getting good speeds consistently on rural exchanges (as far you know)? Just interested to see if there is a correlation.

Cheers,

aaazza

 

[FunkyT]

Hopefully a clearer picture will develop if more people vote... it's an interesting survey nonetheless.

 

[3dcandy]

Slightly off topic, but has anyone had broadband talk with their maxDSL yet?
It's weird, downloading whilst on the phone reduces the quality quite a lot!

 

[FunkyT]

Slightly off topic, but has anyone had broadband talk with their maxDSL yet?
It's weird, downloading whilst on the phone reduces the quality quite a lot!

That doesn't surprise me as the voice call will be using VoIP technology (packet switching/data). QoS is one of the big issues with Internet Telephony.

Does the "Broadband Talk" provider specific requirements for the system?

 

[Richdog]

Yes! What speed do you have now? I wouldn't expect more than 2Mbits stable, maybe 2.5 at a push (if you currently have 1Mbit). If 512K, then 1.5Mbit maybe.

I have 1MB now mate, I average around 115kb/s on my line. When I do an online test though on an ISP's website I get told that 1MB is my max... do you think it would take 2MB at a push?

 

[OllyM]

Nice one. Which ISP dude?

AAISP ( www.aaisp.net.uk ), but that's not really relevant to how well my lines are handling it...

 

[growse]

I don't understand my upgrade. I went from a solid 2Mbit to something a little weird. I have a downstream connection of 7136kbps. I have an upstream connection at 544kbps. However, the max download speed I've ever seen from any server (even a nice quick one) is around the 200-220kB/s. Now this is around 2Mbit speeds (2MBit max is around 250kB/s). So, I'm synced at 7.1Mbit, but only get 2Mbit speeds. Performance is pretty constant. Downstream SNR is currently 8db, attenuation is 31db. Interleaving is on, I think. Currently, I've had 563 CRC errors downstream and 547 headers errors, with a connection uptime of about a week and a bit.

So, something funny is happening. I was upgraded about 20 days ago, and it's been like that ever since.

 

[smids]

I have 1MB now mate, I average around 115kb/s on my line. When I do an online test though on an ISP's website I get told that 1MB is my max... do you think it would take 2MB at a push?

You should be able to get 2Mbits really. Approx 5-6dB SNR Margin is required for each 1Mbit you increase in speed.

You have 13dB SNR Downstream which, when you take away 6 (let's use worst case here), leaves you with 7dB. 6dB is the lowest SNR Margin you want to hit and is the threshold used by BT so you should see 2Mbit. Anything below 6dB SNR Margin DS means disconnections fairly often depending on the router.

What router do you have now? I highly recommend one based on the Broadcom BCM 6348 chipset (Broadcom chipsets are usually used by BT in their exchanges). When I upgraded my Netgear DG834G Texas Instruments AR7 chipset to my current Belkin 7633 with the Broadcom, I increased my SNR by 14dB max, and about 9dB average (the netgear fluctuated so it is difficult to say how much it helped exactly).

e.g. Netgear stats before DSLMax:

Sync: 1152kbps
Data: 1152kbps
DS Attn: 53
DS Margin: 14dB

Belkin before DSLMax:

Sync: 1152kbps
Data: 1152kbps
DS Attn: 53dB
DS Margin: 28dB

Now after max:

Sync: 6304kbps
Data: 5728kbps
DS Attn 53dB
DS Margin 6-7.5dB (varies depending on exchange load).

No dropouts or anything - interleaving is on though - and I might ask for it to be turned off.

 

[tolien]

There is a clear reduction of 1db noise margin - whether of not this is significant is a moot point.

It isn't, and it's debatable whether it's because you were using the phone.

Approx 5-6dB SNR Margin is required for each 1Mbit you increase in speed.

Only in someone's imagination.

 

[smids]

Only in someone's imagination.

Care to explain? I read that on many broadband websites.

Also if you look at my figures 22dB is the difference between 1Mbit and 5.5Mbits for me...

It is about the average you lose for each increase.

 

[tolien]

Care to explain?

It's a crappy approximation that isn't great at low speeds, and rapidly falls apart at higher speeds.

I read that on many broadband websites.

Poor ones, evidently.

Also if you look at my figures 22dB is the difference between 1Mbit and 5.5Mbits for me...

That isn't particularly meaningful.

It is about the average you lose for each increase.

Not necessarily...

 

[FunkyT]

It isn't, and it's debatable whether it's because you were using the phone.

I pick the phone up and the SNR reduces by 1db. I put it down and it increases by 1db. Am I missing something?

 

[tolien]

I pick the phone up and the SNR reduces by 1db. I put it down and it increases by 1db. Am I missing something?

That 1dB isn't significant for a start?