Poll: Poll: UK General Election 2017 - Mk II

[dowie]

To me, the big unanswered question with Labour is what do they do if they can't raise as much extra revenue as they hope? I don't have a major problem with their plans, assuming they work. But what's the "Plan B"? Higher taxes? More borrowing? Or a focus on certain policy areas over others?

I'd be fine with the last of the three. What I'd like to hear is a commitment from Labour, that deficit reduction remains the priority.

well they're already having to borrow to fund this nationalisation policy and it is almost certain that their plans aren't costed, we've already seen the impact of a 5% raise in income tax (at a higher level) and can see that it didn't work as intended, we can also see the examples of where the financial transaction tax has been tried in the past such as in Sweden

deficit reduction simply can't occur with the plans they have as they stand now

 

[Dirk Diggler]

May isn't a brilliant politician, but she'd at least have a firm hand on the tiller as we sail through choppy waters. Corbyn and Abbott would sell this country down the river, they can't even do what is best for their own political party, never mind the country. If their own MPs can't even support them then why would I? Comrade Corbyn and love-ins with the IRA and Hamas and Abbott on Channel 4 being quoted as saying 'every defeat of the British state is a victory for all of us' makes me wonder how anyone can vote for them. They'll of course lie and say they don't hold these views anymore, but that is only to get what they want.

People need to get over this stuff. All this guilt by association from years past. It reminds me of an episode of question time where a member of the panel was ripping into Nick Griffin about the scum he had shared a stage with, and how he couldn't be taken seriously for that reason. Griffin was like "You do realise you're sharing a stage with me tonight, right?"

I prefer to assess the politician they are now and what they stand for now, as opposed to what they did in the 70's and 80's in a totally different set of political parameters.

If you can't forgive Corbyn for comments regarding Hamas, can you forgive the Queen for entertaining Martin McGuinness?

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Both Labour and the Consrevatives were largely in favour of Remain. The public voted to leave and the party in power invoked Article 50 as the electorate had advised them to do. Now people are blaming that one party for Brexit

You seriously think that Labour and the Tories are equally blameless for Brexit?

Boris Johnson? Michael Gove? They drove the Brexit agenda, and Boris was rewarded with a cabinet position. Gove went on to stage an attempt to lead the party!

 

[LOAM]

it's called the Daily Heil, Express and Sun. The fickle morons of this country just lap up what those rags say and let the editors make their minds up for them

This is sadly the case, people don't read manifestos they read a politically aligned editors (with a vested interest) skewed interpretation of it, Its complete madness.

Labour

I'll post that in the hope that someone will read it, even if they come back and say "what a pile of ****" they have at least read it

For fairness;
lib dem
conservative

 

[Rroff]

People need to get over this stuff. All this guilt by association from years past. It reminds me of an episode of question time where a member of the panel was ripping into Nick Griffin about the scum he had shared a stage with, and how he couldn't be taken seriously for that reason. Griffin was like "You do realise you're sharing a stage with me tonight, right?"

I prefer to assess the politician they are now and what they stand for now, as opposed to what they did in the 70's and 80's in a totally different set of political parameters.

If you can't forgive Corbyn for comments regarding Hamas, can you forgive the Queen for entertaining Martin McGuinness?

At the same time there needs to be a bit of discernment neither can you just blindly ignore the past.

Gove went on to stage an attempt to lead the party!

here is an interesting one - would Gove have been worse/same/better than May?

 

[PlacidCasual]

If you can't forgive Corbyn for comments regarding Hamas, can you forgive the Queen for entertaining Martin McGuinness?

One assumes that the Queen was obliged by her duty to impartiality to entertain a member/leader of one her own devolved assemblies.

 

[Hades]

People need to get over this stuff. All this guilt by association from years past. It reminds me of an episode of question time where a member of the panel was ripping into Nick Griffin about the scum he had shared a stage with, and how he couldn't be taken seriously for that reason. Griffin was like "You do realise you're sharing a stage with me tonight, right?"

I prefer to assess the politician they are now and what they stand for now, as opposed to what they did in the 70's and 80's in a totally different set of political parameters.

If you can't forgive Corbyn for comments regarding Hamas, can you forgive the Queen for entertaining Martin McGuinness?

The slight difference between Corbyn/Abbot and the Queen is that the Queen would argue that it was necessary to negotiate with the Sinn Fein to achieve peace. But Corbyn and Abbot actually held the belief that the IRA and Sinn Fein were in the right. This is attested to by Abbot confirming that her views had now changed and that she had "moved on" along with a new hair style since then. If you ask the Queen about entertaining McGuiness she would unlikley say that her views had changed but simply that it was necessary as part of the peace process.

 

[Angilion]

People need to get over this stuff. All this guilt by association from years past. It reminds me of an episode of question time where a member of the panel was ripping into Nick Griffin about the scum he had shared a stage with, and how he couldn't be taken seriously for that reason. Griffin was like "You do realise you're sharing a stage with me tonight, right?"

I prefer to assess the politician they are now and what they stand for now, as opposed to what they did in the 70's and 80's in a totally different set of political parameters.

If you can't forgive Corbyn for comments regarding Hamas, can you forgive the Queen for entertaining Martin McGuinness?

Yes, since the circumstances are different. One is a politician choosing to support a group because they share the same beliefs. The other is a head of state carrying out a duty required of them by their office. Not even similar.

Also, there's a big difference between sharing a stage with someone and agreeing with them. So that's another false equivalence.

Also relevant is the fact that neither Corbyn nor Abbott have said that they were wrong. So it's not about what they did in the 70s and 80s (and 90s). It's about what they're doing now. Do they have different goals? Or do they just have different methods of reaching them now that they've acquired political power? Abbott hasn't even said that her views have changed - her response was that she'd become an MP (i.e. acquired political power), not that her views had changed. Even if you do ignore what a politician said and did for most of their political career, changing their tactics isn't the same as changing their goals or their political position.

Even without their support for terrorism and the overthrown of the UK, I wouldn't vote for them. I wouldn't vote for sexism and racism. So I wouldn't vote for the current Labour party, which is deeply committed to sexism and racism.

 

[Above&Beyond]

The list is too long

We're the 5th largest economy in the world by GDP, I don't think they can laugh about much, especially not when the EU countries try to cover the money we put in. This self-hatred isn't a good trait to have.

 

[McPhee]

well they're already having to borrow to fund this nationalisation policy and it is almost certain that their plans aren't costed, we've already seen the impact of a 5% raise in income tax (at a higher level) and can see that it didn't work as intended, we can also see the examples of where the financial transaction tax has been tried in the past such as in Sweden

deficit reduction simply can't occur with the plans they have as they stand now

I don't really see borrowing for investment as a huge problem, providing the investments are sensible (though I'd argue not all of Labour's planned investments are) and we keep the deficit under control.

It's the day-to-day spending stuff, funded by new taxes, that's concerning me. If the new taxes don't raise the revenue that Labour are expecting, will they drop the commitment to eliminate borrowing for day-to-day spending within five years? Or will they drop spending plans?

 

[Hades]

You seriously think that Labour and the Tories are equally blameless for Brexit?

Boris Johnson? Michael Gove? They drove the Brexit agenda, and Boris was rewarded with a cabinet position. Gove went on to stage an attempt to lead the party!

Several people from the Conservative party campaigned for Brexit. Others in the same party campaigned for remaining. The campaign by Labour to remain was half hearted. The public decided. Blame the voters.

 

[Silly Goose On The Loose]

If the Tories don't get an overall majority but are the biggest party, how does it work? They rule in a minority but if they get overturned on everything they want to do is it them that has to call another election?

 

[Above&Beyond]

People need to get over this stuff. All this guilt by association from years past. It reminds me of an episode of question time where a member of the panel was ripping into Nick Griffin about the scum he had shared a stage with, and how he couldn't be taken seriously for that reason. Griffin was like "You do realise you're sharing a stage with me tonight, right?"

I prefer to assess the politician they are now and what they stand for now, as opposed to what they did in the 70's and 80's in a totally different set of political parameters.

If you can't forgive Corbyn for comments regarding Hamas, can you forgive the Queen for entertaining Martin McGuinness?

They still hold these views, an ideology doesn't die out because you got your hair cut like Abbott seems to think. Can you ever imagine the Queen saying a defeat for the British state is a victory for all of us? Friends from Hezbollah? Friends from Hamas? A terrorist group who believe in killing Jews and he's calling them friends. He was saying this in 2009 not 1989. Maybe he's had a hair cut since then and he's changed, I suspect not. Him as the PM would be beyond the pale.

 

[dowie]

It's the day-to-day spending stuff, funded by new taxes, that's concerning me. If the new taxes don't raise the revenue that Labour are expecting, will they drop the commitment to eliminate borrowing for day-to-day spending within five years? Or will they drop spending plans?

I guess it depends who is in charge at that time... if it is still Corbyn and co running the Labour Party then I doubt they'd want to be seen to cut their spending plans.

If the Tories don't get an overall majority but are the biggest party, how does it work? They rule in a minority but if they get overturned on everything they want to do is it them that has to call another election?

they can rule as a minority (Labour have proposed doing this if they win the largest number of seats) or they can try to form a coalition as they did before

 

[LOAM]

We're the 5th largest economy in the world by GDP, I don't think they can laugh about much, especially not when the EU countries try to cover the money we put in. This self-hatred isn't a good trait to have.

Oh i don't hate old Blighty, I hate what its becoming though. There's quite some difference!

 

[Uther]

Conservative signs keep getting vandalised around here, and the police are 'investigating'.

What a total waste of police time.

Police might not care, May did sack 20,000 of them.

 

[PlacidCasual]

If the Tories don't get an overall majority but are the biggest party, how does it work? They rule in a minority but if they get overturned on everything they want to do is it them that has to call another election?

Depending on the numbers the DUP might support them. A coalition of the damned with Labour, SNP and Lib Dems sounds seriously unwieldy the concessions that Labour would have to give might be unpalatable electorally. In which case a minority Conservative Government would limp on until completion of the Brexit negotiations and probably call an elections once the new treaty was signed, would be my guess.

I reckon a coalition of the damned would end up in a second referendum which might be very explosive and dangerous for Labour electorally because UKIP is dead and it's threat to Labour has diminished but a frustrated Brexit might re-animate the corpse.

 

[McBain]

I know this has been picked up in a few news outlets and the Tories are shouting from the rooftops about it. This is a huge red flag to me.

Labour manifesto
We will initiate a review into reforming council tax and business rates and consider new options such as a land value tax, to ensure local government has sustainable funding for the long term

Land value tax = lube up?

 

[Uther]

I know this has been picked up in a few news outlets and the Tories are shouting from the rooftops about it. This is a huge red flag to me.


Land value tax = lube up?

It's been mentioned a few times, it's only a review, and it seems unless you have several acres it might end up cheaper than the council tax for a lot of people.

 

[Rilot]

I know this has been picked up in a few news outlets and the Tories are shouting from the rooftops about it. This is a huge red flag to me.

Land value tax = lube up?

This has been discussed at length in this thread already. People with higher value land would pay more but people who rent or have low-value houses would pay less. THis is the system used in Denmark and it works well.