Power to Mick Lynch

[Werewolf]

Walking the aisle checking tickets for £33k a year? There are people working warehouse jobs and doing care work for £16-£20k who would bite your hand off for that.

Except that's the bare minimum of what they do, they're also fairly critical to the safe running of the trains, have to be trained in safety on the rail network, be able to assist in an emergency, act to some degree as security and a 101 other things.

You might as well say that a flight attendant is just a trolly pusher, and ignore their importance in the safe operation of aircraft, and the safety of passengers when things go wrong (both flight attendants and "ticket inspectors" can/do have to be able to make the decision to evacuate their respective modes of transport and get the passengers to safety in what can be extremely dangerous situations).

 

[JaWalks]

Yeah with attitudes like that we won’t. There’s really no good reason why it shouldn’t be mostly automated in the next 5 years.

There are many reasons with the astronomical cost to implement being the main one.

 

[shifty_uk]

Do flight attendants get 33k a year?

 

[Werewolf]

Yeah with attitudes like that we won’t. There’s really no good reason why it shouldn’t be mostly automated in the next 5 years.

Well except for the fact it'd take several times that long just to reach the point where the signalling is ready, or for the stations to be upgraded and much of the existing track is not suited to unmanned trains because for most of it there is relatively easy access to for everything from kids climbing over fences, to cattle, to vehicles.

 

[newbiejim]

And the rest of their conditions to be met - no modernisation and no compulsory redundancies?

I`m not familiar with the finer detail you allude to regarding "no modernisation", I`d need to see the exact detail of these points from the union to form an opinion, not Grant Shappe et al.

 

[Werewolf]

Do flight attendants get 33k a year?

IIRC base salary is around £20k (I don't think that includes overtime/unsocial hours), but turnover is often very high as many people take the job thinking it'll be fun and glamourous with them being able to see the world, then rapidly tire of it due to the hours and the fact that most of the time they basically only see the airports and hotels.

 

[Mason-]

Well except for the fact it'd take several times that long just to reach the point where the signalling is ready, or for the stations to be upgraded and much of the existing track is not suited to unmanned trains because for most of it there is relatively easy access to for everything from kids climbing over fences, to cattle, to vehicles.

All doable if it had real backing.

Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good.

 

[Werewolf]

All doable if it had real backing.

Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good.

"doable"

How many tens of thousands of new rail engineers do you want to train up in a few weeks to be able to get it done in five years? (IIRC it normally takes about 5-10 years to train someone up fully as there can be things like degrees involved)
There is a shortage of skilled, experienced railway engineering staff due to a lack of training for over a decade and redundancies to try and save money, oddly enough something that then costs more as they have to hire those redundancies and early retirements back to fill the gaps at much higher rates.

One of my friends' dad is an experienced rail engineer, from memory he took early retirement/redundancy about 10 years ago getting a large lump sum plus his pension, then got the call about a year later as network rail realised they didn't have anything like enough staff to do one of the long planned upgrades, I believe he's spent most of the time since as a "contractor" earning about twice as much.

 

[CapitalOne]

Doing that country wide, passenger and freight in 5 years is a fantasy I’d say. And the cost….not sure that is an endeavour many would consider good value or even a prioirty.

 

[Spook187]

I've been a Railway contractor for 21 years and I can you straight up it's feast or famine for work especially for midweek work.

 

[Freakbro]

Do we give them what they want and therefore also accept the 10% for teachers and 15% for nurses that is apparently being asked for?

All parts of the public sector deserve rises to help with current inflation issues, don't they? Just like every worker in the UK does, and its what's happening in the private sector. The latest ONS figures, which have been showing the same trend for months now

• Average total pay growth for the private sector was 8.0% in February to April 2022, and for the public sector it was 1.5%

And tbh, we're not even talking about real term increases, these are still effective real term cuts in wages, for all of us, just a hell of a lot more for the Public sector.

 

[Goodie]

Yeah and what are nhs workers getting

not enough...

 

[Leesey]

Doing that country wide, passenger and freight in 5 years is a fantasy I’d say. And the cost….not sure that is an endeavour many would consider good value or even a prioirty.

Doing it in 25 is a fantasy, and the cost would make HS2 look like a bargin.

They've been updating signals across the network for years, and it takes forever because they've still got to operate the railway.

They've been attempting to upgrade the electrification and add existing and its taking forever and always either exceeding budget or running out of money and been mothballed.

 

[Leesey]

Yeah and what are nhs workers getting

NHS unions are in full support of the rail strikes.

 

[Devilman]

Yeah and what are nhs workers getting

So your answer to the Rail strike and rail workers is a huge chunk of "whataboutism" with regards to NHS workers?!
This is exactly the problem in this country.. people who are always looking to excuse poor management / pay / working conditions because "someone else has it worse"

Is this what this country has become? Truly a race to the bottom with not 1 toss given about whether people are actually being taken the **** out of by this disgusting bunch of lying toads in our government.

 

[Richie]

All parts of the public sector deserve rises to help with current inflation issues, don't they? Just like every worker in the UK does, and its what's happening in the private sector.

Of course they do. I feel people are misinterpreting what I have asked. I am not saying people should not be getting pay rises but some of the demands from some of the sectors are quite wild.

Teachers want above inflation rises i.e more than 9%
Nurses are reportedly asking for 15%

Do you think these are reasonable requests?

I am fully aware that negotiation means party A starts low and party B starts high and then some kind of compromise is made but asking for something as high as those examples has the possibility of alienating themselves from the general public whom they look to for support when they strike and causing them more harm than good.

 

[newbiejim]

And the rest of their conditions to be met - no modernisation and no compulsory redundancies?

You got the detail & source on these yet?

 

[Martini1991]

Of course they do. I feel people are misinterpreting what I have asked. I am not saying people should not be getting pay rises but some of the demands from some of the sectors are quite wild.

Teachers want above inflation rises i.e more than 9%
Nurses are reportedly asking for 15%

Do you think these are reasonable requests?

I am fully aware that negotiation means party A starts low and party B starts high and then some kind of compromise is made but asking for something as high as those examples has the possibility of alienating themselves from the general public whom they look to for support when they strike and causing them more harm than good.

Yes.

We're "Building back better", and creating a "High skill, high wage economy". You can only do that with real world pay rises surely?

 

[Richie]

NHS unions are in full support of the rail strikes.

Of course they are because their own pay review is happening just now so if the RMT can do a lot of the heavy lifting then it helps the NHS union cause.

Some people here will read my point above as being against the unions when that is not true. The point I make above is pragmatic

 

[Devilman]

Of course they do. I feel people are misinterpreting what I have asked. I am not saying people should not be getting pay rises but some of the demands from some of the sectors are quite wild.

Teachers want about inflation rises i.e more than 9%
Nurses are reportedly asking for 15%

Do you think these are reasonable requests?

I am fully aware that negotiation means party A starts low and party B starts high and then some kind of compromise is made but asking for something as high as those examples has the possibility of alienating themselves from the general public whom they look to for support when they strike and causing them more harm than good.

Considering the nature of wealth distribution in the UK is the worst it has been in generations and the cost of living is going through the roof, combined with the extortionate price of housing / rental then NO, I don't think their demands are "quite wild".

In fact I think their demands are reflective of the utter disgusting shambles this country is in, with regards to exploitation of the working class / working poor. The average worker is worse off now than they ever have been in their entire life.

To be perfectly honest, those numbers above are the BARE MINIMUM wages should be increasing to compensate for this parasitic government and their total refusal to do anything to help with the cost of living crisis, the housing crisis or anything else to help "the unwashed masses"

People are just acting shocked because they don't want to admit the fact that these kinds of pay rises ARE warranted and needed, due to the utterly disgraceful "management" of this country over the last 12 years.