Agree with that entirely but there are also bullish unions, a poorly managed rail network and a huge disparity between similarly skilled roles across other industries.
Power to Mick Lynch
- Thread starter newbiejim
- Start date
For what, not subsidising already generous rail worker salaries with even more tax payer money? By the way, these people run a rail service like they're doing us a favour by showing up to work, their level of entitlement is astounding
For the constant lying and deception. For running a government to save Boris' job rather than for the people.
Besides, I thought we were supposed to be a high wage, high skill economy? Brexiteers have been telling us for years that higher wages is a Big Brexit Bonus....
Soldato
- Joined
- 23 Nov 2014
- Posts
- 7,963
- Location
- The Cronx
I don't think that is fair, you are saying merely by being in the industry you think they have a massive sense of entitlement?
It would be great context to understand which industry you work in, but of course you don't have to.
The incompetencies of the government isn't the point of the thread though?
High wage, high skilled economy... you need revenues to support these things.
Fuel and insurance costs have been rising for years yet more and more are pushed to private transport because rail and bus travel are simply too expensive and poorly run, that's what gets me.
As I said, inflation in a number of areas is tied to the conflict in Ukraine and COVID backlog/issues. Not all of it but a fair chunk of it is directly linked.
Prices won't stay this high forever so giving people a pay rise in line with inflation that is transitory doesn't seem like a great idea.
Permabanned
- Joined
- 28 Nov 2003
- Posts
- 10,695
- Location
- Shropshire
The man has the remarkable capacity to make even the likes of Angela Rayner look and sound genteel
On the one hand it's absurd to expect public sector workers to expect pay increases in line with inflation - private sector can't expect such increases.
At these times you always get private sector pointing out public sector workers have better benefits.
I do believe increasing wages will increase and prolong the issues of inflation.
But then, the government confirms the triple lock will remain. oh rly?
I'm not saying the public sector shouldn't strike if they feel hard done by.
The government will whip this up as much as possible to move us away from partygate and all the other miss steps by the government.
The unions and public sector are a gift to the government right now and are just playing into their hands.
I would expect government approval ratings to go up as public sector and private sector are once again pitched against each other.
At these times you always get private sector pointing out public sector workers have better benefits.
I do believe increasing wages will increase and prolong the issues of inflation.
But then, the government confirms the triple lock will remain. oh rly?
I'm not saying the public sector shouldn't strike if they feel hard done by.
The government will whip this up as much as possible to move us away from partygate and all the other miss steps by the government.
The unions and public sector are a gift to the government right now and are just playing into their hands.
I would expect government approval ratings to go up as public sector and private sector are once again pitched against each other.
Soldato
- Joined
- 23 Nov 2014
- Posts
- 7,963
- Location
- The Cronx
I would agree that there should not be inflation level pay rises every year, but I think one of the big reasons for the strikes is a lack of pay rises to keep up with inflation for an extended period of time. It was always going downhill, it's just accelerated to a point whereby it's becoming unworkable for some. Of course there is another answer but the government prefer to tax high as well so that particular lever won't be used (even if temporarily to match the inflation).
Beyond that, every non sterling priced item/good/service will go up regardless of COVID, wars etc the question is by how much?
The thead is about Mick Lynch, and he's been doing a marvelous job of speaking up to the scumbags in government, it's pretty relevant.
Sounds a bit like the Brexit Bonus of higher wages for British workers was actually a load of ******** then, wasn't it?
Sounds like we should fund our public transport infrastructure better to me...
This wasn't a direct criticism of the rail workers as honestly, like most people I have far too little interest or knowledge about the subject to say if what they are asking for is fair.
It was more of a general thinking on the idea of giving a large section of the working population a massive pay rise based on what should be a short term increased cost of living. It will probably never go down to the levels from 3 years ago but perhaps overall inflation will have averaged out to 4%, not 10-11%.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 22 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 28,315
- Location
- Boston, Lincolnshire
Yes because the Japanese workforce were working while the English workforce were on strike every other day of the week.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 22 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 28,315
- Location
- Boston, Lincolnshire
Sounds a bit like the Brexit Bonus of higher wages for British workers was actually a load of ******** then, wasn't it?
For nearly 20 years companies have gotten away with foreign labour increasing the profits of all the greedy shareholders. Now the chickens are slowly coming home to roost. Distribution of wealth is the problem not paying the wages people deserve. Since Brexit has happened wage increase has been massive in sectors that have relied on exploitation of Eastern European labour.
These rail strikes are just the beginning. The flight industry is another one that is buggered. All those people sacked during covid have realised they can get better pay elsewhere.
I've made this point a few times in this thread, but yet to see a decent counter argument.
Sounds a bit like the Brexit Bonus of higher wages for British workers was actually a load of ******** then, wasn't it?
Sounds like we should fund our public transport infrastructure better to me...
I don't think you'll find many on this forum who will disagree with your first point
. I actually wonder how many of these rail workers voted for Brexit on the premise of getting better pay.As for better funding of public transport. There's only 2 ways this will happen, (well 3 but the unions will reject any cost saving measures) increasing ticket costs, or increasing taxes.
Every December when they announce the price increase of next year's tickets causes an uproar from its customers, who complain of forever increasing costs yet the rail network still performs badly - late trains, lack of capacity etc. Rail was always supposed to have been promoted as the most cost effective way of travelling - it hasn't been that way in years, even with the costs of fuel rising.
The second method is increasing general taxation to divert to rail transport will also cause uproar when the majority of taxpayers don't use the rail network - why should their taxes be subsidising someone else's rail tickets.
Also need to remember that keep increasing ticket prices and eventually it'll just be a transport system for the wealthy, as the majority of people won't be able to afford to use it.
Who designed and manufactured the overpriced trash we were producing?
I may be wrong here but we're just victim to the privatisation of rail franchises, over subsidised, the execs and workers alike are fat and happy, more so the former of course.
I just don’t get why being a train driver needs to take that long and why it’s seen as a difficult job. You can qualify to be a pilot in 18 months, and that is certainly more taxing than following some rails.
I suspect the rail unions keep perpetuating this myth that it’s super difficult and complicated.
I’m all for workers getting the best they can, but I think we should still pay a fair wage for a fair job and I just don’t think many on the railways get a fair wage, they get a lot more.
Ultimately we should be bringing everyone up rather than bringing some down. But, the railways and other heavily unionised industries have had more than their fair share.
Our manufacturing industry declined through the inaction and British exceptionalism attitude of the laissez faire 50s Tory government, alongside a management class which had for generations become fat on the benefits of the British Empire and failed to prepare for its end.
Meanwhile, Japan and Germany rebuilt and modernised their manufacturing sector, and embraced globalisation.
The unions were pressuring management to invest, management didn't. By the time the 60s and 70s rolled around, the sticking plaster of nationalisation was attempted, but the underlying rot was set and it simply delayed the inevitable. And it was a ******* mess.
It's worth remembering the huge union influence on manufacturing in Germany: hasn't held them back much has it?