Project: Two storey/part single storey side and rear extensions

[kai]

Is the developer aware of the professional snagger? He strikes me as the type of person who would refuse to work with one and simply say "I'm my own snagger, I work to my own standards, I can fix that but it'll cost ya" etc....

I'm watching the thread carefully, we started our 42sqm rear extension at the start of last week and we're still at the foundation stage.

100%. It is good to observe how others react though. Given all the heart ache and numerous issues I'd be happy with roughly right and then do my snagging myself. I doubt the chap is making very much money at all at this stage?

Some of the professional snaggers I have seen are seriously pedantic as well.
I can see the developer having MAJOR issues if you have engaged one of them.

I mean the developer is seriously poor as we have seen, but as long as its within building regs and unless your contract specifically mentions outsourced snagging then I think fireworks could commence!

Anticipate some confrontations (what's new). I plan to request a snagging date and inform him of our intention to have the property professionally snagged verbally as i have informed him via email.

Within 48 hours, we aim to receive a comprehensive report, complete with photographic evidence, in hard copy format. I do not need to share this with him and can use as my own reference guide.


While perfection is not the expectation, I want the ability to identify issues beyond my immediate observation. It's crucial to address matters in alignment with building codes, regulations, and industry standards, especially given the limited presence of our building inspector on-site. I may be willing to overlook minor issues, but any significant problems must be rectified.

Even though the contract doesn't explicitly address snagging, I firmly believe I am well within my rights to insist on this process. Considering the extensive construction work, resembling more of a full new build than a typical £10K job, nearly every part of the house has undergone significant renovations.

I also am itching to use the line: "I'll stick to IT, as you suggested and not get involved with it as i apparently have zero idea, thus i thought i would bring in a professional who is on your level"

 

[kai]

Some minor items to be corrected and snagged but the en-suite is 95% complete as work was finished today in this area. It's a small room but the wife ensisted on a freestanding bath as it overlooks the big bay bedroom window and allows our daughter to have her own bathroom in the house.

The electrican also wired in the thermostats, actuator and Wireless Wiring Centre today. Seems to be working (we finally have downstairs heating after months). The center is under the stairs so it's out of the way and will be boxed in ( i will need to check if the frequency will still work if boxed; i believe RF passes through walls easily!

 

[kai]

Quick update: The developer contacted me late on Friday, informing me that he hadn't received the final (final) price from Howdens for our kitchen and utility. He has however worked out to be around £26,000 - £27,000, covering everything, including fitting and worktop costs. Skeptical about the figure, I pressed for details, and he had answers for every question.

Taking matters into my own hands, I visited Howdens and insisted on obtaining the price, despite their initial reluctance. After having them remove all personal information from the account holder, except for the name and customer reference, I discovered the actual cost to us (not how much he will be making), We had a lot of problems with the Kitchen so Howdens' did give us several items for free; including a few high ticket items.

Kitchen & Utility: £11,769.90 in total. I made sure to have Howdens date and sign the printouts.
Worktops: £3,500 (already paid and verified with a receipt).
Fitting: We had been given a fitting cost of £3,000 - £3,500.

There was an additional £8,000 added somewhere. !!! So unless he plans on charging me £11,000 to fit a kitchen, i have no idea where he has these figures from

This week, I plan to be ignorant and await the scheduled meeting where the developer aims to discuss the budget overrun on the kitchen and bathrooms. At that point, I will present the actual prices, demonstrating that we are well-informed about our purchases and the accurate payment owed. This will no doubt result in drama.



I also have had a new painter here from Wednesday this week he has been excellent. However, we have had no other work done, why! because the developer is moving house and used all his trades to help him move and fit a new kitchen, bathroom etc.

The cheek; he was on the phone when i quried why i should suffer when i have already paid him. The response was comical; "do you know how stressful it is not having anywhere to live" naturally, my reaction was one of anger!

 

[kai]

This sounds so insanely stressful. I don't know how I'd handle it.

I had some issues when we did our extension but I think some of it stemmed from my own indecisiveness. Looking back it was nowhere near as bad as what you're going through.

I often defend tradesmen because some customers expect something for nothing but this isn't the case clearly with you.

When you refer to him as the developer, what do you mean by that? I always imagine a developer being someone who builds housing estates or something.

He functions as a small housing developer, relying on a small core group of guys he employees plus 6-7 subcontractors (most hate his guts and are very open about this, even without us even going into conversation i.e. The painter rocked up Wednesday and his opening comment was " Another nice family, he has screwed over?). Although he claims to build only 1-2 houses annually, valued at £1 million or more each (For this area of the country; that is a LOT of house.), we find this hard to believe now. We personally inspected two of these high-value homes and spoke with a homeowner for references. It's noteworthy that he doesn't engage in estate development, focusing instead on these substantial individual projects.

This is a small project and thought this would be a walk in the park for him.

On Friday, my wife strongly advocated we throw him out expressing heightened stress to the point of experiencing panic attacks. We only have a few weeks left to live in our accommodation. We won't move in without it being safe for our child.
We told him this on Friday, as an example we said about needing the glass for the juliet balcony. It's an expensive item and if the door is open it's a complete drop from the second floor. His response was "lock the door and don't give your child the key".

However, both I and our Quantity Surveyor are in favor of him still working as albeit slow work is still progressing. The primary reason is the presence of pending high-ticket items that still need to be delivered. Requesting him to leave at this timewould not only disrupt the ongoing work but also incur significant financial losses, running into thousands of pounds solely in terms of materials.

He's got to just be on the windup now, no one can be blind enough not to see the irony in that statement.

Defo taking the ****

I honest to god wish i was joking; he is deadly serious and keeps telling me how much stress he is under from it.

I phoned this morning; as ive come in and found out our glass roof is leaking (again). I told him this before Christmas and nothing was done. We have now had really bad weather and the entire floor is soaking. He is on his way up while passing the comment "i dont need this ****, i am stressed enough"

Fireworks will happen today anyway as ive asked our building inspector to turn up as he not been here in two months. He does not like i go behind his back and ask the inspector to turn up without his knowledge. Last time i checked i employ the inspector not the other way round.

 

[kai]

It does seem your defcon 1 problems are sometimes mixed in with your decon 5 problems. I totally agree RE: the juliet balcony... its just a bit of glass, keep the door locked........ the roof leaking however, for sure...

100% issue is he is so so sporadic and so many moving parts we have to jump on them when he is there or "wants" to talk about them.

We are chasing items that hold value (even if lower on the defcon list) ' the roof leaking is an easy fix; we could have some come out and reseal the roof and fix for less than a few hundred. The glass for the balcony is could be over £1K not including fitting, brackets etc.

If we can get the painting done, two front doors, glass staircase and juilet in we are happy to cut our losses and ask to leave. The only major ticket item (we have paid for ) would havbe the master bathroom and landscaping outside but happy to cut our losses.

 

[kai]

Fair - your strategy makes sense! You aren't there to make friends so do make sure to rinse him and not let other softer principles get in the way

Do you need him for any kind of warranty? Or is that a pie in the sky dream now?

We need him (kind of) no other builder would walk in this late and finish with any type of warranty (and he knows this).

The building inspector has conducted an inspection, expressing overall satisfaction. However, there is a need for photographic evidence regarding certain items, such as insulation. Additionally, our head-height on the staircase is out by 5mm as we dont have the 2m head height on the 3rd step in. Given the minimal deviation and its low impact, I conveyed my acceptance of this discrepancy.

He advised not for us to move in until complete . The moment we move in we have 8 for building sign off, otherwise it will go back to the local authorities .

@kai

Document , record and video everything.

Keep your phone recording in your pocket when you meet with him.

We have already started doing this; i can't release anything here as we will likely be taking this further so it does not happen to others but some of the conversations are so comical listening to them back. Listening back, it becomes apparent that there are numerous contradictions and instances where statements directly oppose each other. In the heat of the moment when he is screaming etc, these discrepancies might not be immediately apparent, but upon review, it's evident that conflicting statements have been made.

 

[kai]

I Feel for you, some family members are going through something very similar, although they have just been left with a unsafe/unfinished shell that needs to be demolished. Thousands spent on legal fees to try and get something back from the builder but have got no where while he is able to carry on with any repercussions.

Good luck with the rest of the project I hope you are able to move back soon.

I can't go into too much details, naturally but i want to avoid legal as you say thousands spent with no repercussions. My wife was a former journalist for leading newspapers and media so we have a lot of contacts in the industry we could call in favours. We have let it slip a few times to the contractors in the hope something finds his way back to the developer organically.

Have you had periodic inspections by a building inspector? If so - they should have evidence of insulation / floor joists / etc…

Some builders use private companies now - who can certify on behalf of the local authority.

We use a private company; and did not go through the local authority. He has been out 6 times in 9 months; and we have site reports. He is happy' but for some parts need to see evidence (luckly i have this as i have taken hundreds of photo's along the way) but the responsbility lies with the developer to be providing this.

 

[kai]

We had a discussion with the developer this morning, and he seems perplexed about why we can't move in without front doors (all other clients have no issue with this). Despite emphasising the safety concerns, especially with a 2-year-old in the house, and the fact that our home insurance does not cover such situations, he is eager for us to occupy. Currently, his building insurance is liable for any issues. We know as soon as we move in work will grind to a halt.

On a positive note, we've managed to start moving things back into the kitchen. My wife, who had been hapring on forever for an open larder for quite some time, is somewhat pleased and can finally see small glimers of an end in sight.

This room is being painted today; it's just a small playroom for our daughter but i had someone make a window seat toy box. Should look really nice once its all painted in.

 

[kai]

I mean seriously what is the hold up with the front door
Is it ready to be fitted on arrival or are there other issues surrounding this?

I guess hes kind of angling with the once they move it I can start pushing for final payment and can delay things to get money from other jobs (ie divert labour)
Where yours is, we need to get the big ticket items sorted before we risk telling him to foxtrot oscar?

He has all the excuses under the sun. He is now going let us know tommorow an update on the front door (we need x2) and the glass for the staircase. I know for a fact he has not ordered them because he has not even measured.

I think it's a funds issue on his side and delay tactics. We have paid him for these items; but from what i can gather he uses money from other jobs to cover etc ( i suspect this is normal) and i know he does not have a huge amount of work at the moment.

 

[kai]

The doors are probably on account tho aren't they? And cost price is presumably super low.

Not sure what you mean; but i assume he is buying from supplier whereby he has an account and 30/60 day invoice? For us to go buy 2 composite doors in the style we have given in the quote is over £1K each.

The door thing seems mad, does sound like cash flow issues in the company.

Has he plastered door frames? Normally youd only want to board up to the reveal and plaster after the door is put in else plaster could crack around it as you're fitting door.

It appears this way; and the door frames - yes have been plastered even freshly painted (he is all over the place and no methodical way of working)

So apparently this is SAFE for my 2 year and he sees no reason why we can't move in!

 

[kai]

As said before though
That can be made safe really easily, any half decent DIYer could make that safe. Assuming you have safety glass going in is it also anti shatter or is it going to do the normal safety glass thing of breaking into safe chunks.
As such what would you do should it break in future?

And again on doors you can get some very cheap low quality doors that would make you safe.

I get your at the point of why should you, I am just taking my personal position that if that was what it would take for me to be able to get back in I would just do it now.

I get that but the issue is i have already paid him for these items, this is the fustrasting part. I can make it safe' no doubt but it's more money again on top of putting everything right for the long term.

 

[kai]

We just had a 40 minute discussion; aka argument. Just kept turning into a blame game and how many "extra's" we have had. "I do not understand, i have had a bespoke house! i should not be asking when we can move in" LOL!!!

The features in question are not extras; they are all specified in the original quote. He became very angry when I mentioned that we're having an independent snagging assessment. He insisted that he would outright refuse to address any item listed on the snagging report. According to him, he will only consider the work complete when he is satisfied, and once that happens, he intends to conclude his involvement and not to contact him.

He also expressed considerable frustration with me for making him appear foolish by contacting the builder inspector without his knowledge. Consequently, he declared that he would no longer handle any matters with the building inspector, leaving it entirely up to me. Essentially, he reacted by throwing a tantrum and disengaging from the situation.

Regardless, he insists that he will complete the project in two weeks, though we are skeptical of this timeline. Additionally, he mentioned reevaluating budgets, claiming that the funds allocated have been comsumed by "extras" leave no room for the bathroom, yet he cant provide any figures only give examples that are on the quote.. It appears the exterior finishes may also remain incomplete. Furthermore, he issued a warning, stating that if we engage any of his trades for work on the house without full payment and a finalized contract, he will promptly terminate their services or sever all business ties.

 

[kai]

I do get the impression that the spec you think you have a contract for is very different than the spec he thinks he gave you a contract for.

Unless every item was costed out on your spec then it is very much open to interpretation on what is considered extras and what is not.

Yes and no! I get the quote is open to interpretation as I put it together and he reviewed: added/removed and signed. However the spec is hard to deny when it’s listed on the quote in detail.

For example one of many. The quote:

“Flooring throughout entire downstairs – LVT to match existing living room: Laid and fitted entire downstairs. 36 m2 to be utilized from existing living room.”

I also provided in the quote the exact floor; websites and prices (at the time) per sqm2 that stocked it.

One of the “extras” is laying floor in the small downstairs toilet. My argument is the quote states throughout “entire” downstairs.

 

[kai]

Do you have any other examples?

Ok! I am not going to go into detail on all of them as there are so many examples but here is a few trivial ones that are supposedly going on this bill on a fixed price project.

Lighting: "New spot lights and adequate sockets in each new room, landing including bathrooms – the kitchen Island is to include 3 over hanging pendants, Master bedroom to include large pendant. We (the customer) are responsible for the purchase of all pendants. All spots and sockets to be included in the quote including fitting".

These are also the words added by the developer to the quote:
" All carpentry, plumbing, electrical, plastering included"

Apparently we have had extra spot-lights and sockets way over what was planned. We left 95% of this up to the discretion of the electirican; on what he felt was right.

Decorate: "The entire house interior is to be painted, all rooms to be finished in white with white satin or gloss finishes.

Another extra's he is only painting walls that have been "touched" by the work. So for example; two walls are new in one of the bedrooms. The entire floor has been replaced and new skirting and architrave are only yet the arugment is only the newly plastered walls will be covered.

 

[kai]

Over the past few months, we've received numerous complaints from neighbors regarding site welfare issues, such as attracting vermin. Despite continuous efforts on our part, the site has yet to be adequately cleaned, and our driveway has unfortunately become a makeshift refuge. The drive was like this for close to 4 months. It is hard to see but the accumulation of rubbish, reaching almost head height, spanning the entire length of our double driveway (it goes right the way back, way beyond the skip)

After constantly pestering; he cleared up over the weekend. It's not entirely clear, but it's a lot better than before. OSB board was placed on most of the driveway, but other parts are still ruined. I'm uncertain about my legal standing, but ideally, I'd like my driveway restored to its pre-construction state; the tarmac has significant gouges and is covered in cement (I tried pressure washing yesterday, and it's not budging). I am not sure if he can use acid' etc. Secondly, as you can probably see in the attached photo, I need to determine if there are any laws or regulations regarding the access height to an entry door. The step-up is enormous, almost equivalent to 4 bricks. There's no way my parents or anyone elderly can use this area for access. It feels like I need a parachute to descend from it.

Finally, they completed the brickwork on Friday outside, but only noticed over the weekend that they used a different mix or something over the correct mortar colour (yes, that is the dry colour ). It looks dreadful. This snagger is going to have a field-day.

 

[kai]

After weeks of daily follow-ups regarding our two front doors, which were supposedly ordered, we received a call yesterday from the developer. He asked me to resend pictures of our preferences and specifications because, allegedly, his internet was not working, and he claimed to have numerous doors on order for other clients. Despite not admitting it, it's evident that he hasn't placed the order.

We are currently in pursuit of major items such as the glass balustrade, Juliet balcony, two front doors, and the installation of a master bathroom. In today's meeting with the developer, he confirmed that we are roughly £2,500 over budget on extras. However, he refuses to provide a breakdown of costs and is passing on additional expenses due to supply issues from Howden's. Shockingly, he wants to charge over £5K for kitchen fitting due to the kitchen supplier. He is adding 1.5K on to the fit for wrong items being delivered or damaged.

Despite our request for a cost breakdown, he point blank refuses only willing to provide only an invoice without revealing any calculations other than "his total". He proposed that if we want the master bathroom fitted, we should deduct the required amount from the allocated cost, effectively resulting in us not having the bathroom done by him or tiled etc.

Moreover, he is demanding payment within 7 days following building sign-off, rather than upon the completion of snagging. Is this standard practice?

In another audacious suggestion, he went lets do a deal paying the full amount (he was angling for cash) before completion, snagging, etc basically this week., and assured us that he would finish the work, including the bathroom without the extra's fees . I firmly rejected this and told him the final payment is not happening until work is complete.

 

[kai]

Totally agree.

I have followed this thread and surprised that nobody else has suggested that the best thing may be to give this chap more money if the pot is empty?


The build period has been quite lengthy and there are so many variables on the job that can consume funds that weren't foreseen on quotation?

I don't see how it's reasonable to expect the builder to pay for OPs materials and items out of his own pocket ? It's your house.

Yes the builders behaviour has been appalling.

Completion is so close, if the pot is dry, the pot is dry, its not that much of an unrealistic scenario - it's a 150k build - 2.5k is 1.5%? So he wasn't too far off his quote, why would he pay for it out of his own pocket ?

I don't understand why you would want to drag this out and prolong the unpleasantness, and risk the quality of the remaining works needing carried out.

?

consume funds that weren't foreseen on quotation? Nothing from our side as a client has been unforseen in terms of end specification. We have had not asked or raised that has not been in the quote. Several items have hugely favoured the builder i.e. he refused to move pipe work thus resulting in much smaller windows in one location (saving our £900 just on the window size).


I appreciate if something has arise than had a major impact or we asked for something out of scope (never been discussed) but we have simply asked for the architectural drawing to be followed with copious amounts of spec sheets provided even at quote level.

£2.5K is just the start; Friday we had numbers like invoicing thrown at us exceeding £15K. Again, i am not going to go into detail on here but i will say the 2.5K was the water tester on our reaction as things got very ugly late last week.

 

[kai]

If only it were that easy, but we all know the builder won't learn from this and other huge mistakes.

Kai has to be a little careful and stay the course. It's better to give a little once things start progressing, say another part payment when big ticket items have gone in, then then final payment once fully complete.

You always need to stay on the side where more work has been done than what you owe. If things go really wrong then you don't want to be out of pocket having to out things right when the builder has been fired or just left the job.

Unfortunately, this hasn't been the case since day one; the developer has always held the upper hand, aware of our situation (this is our own fault). To be fair, I'll acknowledge him for not abandoning the project despite numerous faults. He could have walked away, leaving us in a dire financial situation.

Recalling the payments is challenging due to the extended timeline, but i think we initially paid around 50K to reach just roof level for exterior work. Admittedly, we may have made an error in agreeing to and paying this amount. For the first time across the entire project, the dynamic is shifting, in our favor (albeit slightly). We currently hold the last portion of the payment. Things are now getting dicey because for the very first time the tables are starting to be our favour whereby we are holding the last of the payment, and items like 'extra' work was done; or pay me the money now upfront to close out so no extra charges are coming.

 

[kai]

If the builder had been honest and upfront then perhaps Kai would be more likely to accept budget overrun. However, trust has clearly been lost.

The flip side is that the industry is full of cowboys and dodgy people, so you sort of have to accept it to some degree. It's par for the course, if he was a better professional perhaps the original quote might have been double the price.

I fully agree with this statement. If we encountered issues along the way and it was made clear upfront that these were outside the scope and would incur an additional cost of £"X" if you wanted them addressed, then we could have proceeded accordingly. Not complete it' then say oh' that thing i did 6 months ago - you now owe this. i.e. an example he provided was toothing in brickwork from the old to new extension work ( i didnt request this) ; he apparently did not factor in the quote for this as it took 1/2 day more but the brick-layers went ahead and done it as they considered it the correct way and the proper way to finish tie in.

One professional did quote more than double the price we went with' but we also did not settle for the cheapest and actually went mid-range with someone who provided a solid reference.

 

[kai]

Things are starting to come together, and the end goal is in sight. We finally had our glass installed Friday for the staircase. If we can get our front doors this week, we will move in on the weekend. Things look great from a distance, but I feel the snagger is going to find lots of fault.

First impression's looks great.

Perhaps I'm being pedantic, but there are endless snag's i am spotting myself already: example: the old radiator bracket holes have been left in the wall, making it impossible for the painter to paint behind it and the brackets have not been fitted correctly; can litterally rock the radaitor back and fourth.

Again, maybe i am being pedantic and expecting perfection but rooms that are finished having finishes like this;that are brand new doors and hinges. It's items are that are very easily fixable but it just screams of no care or attention. In fairness; i did show these to the developer and he said it's not good enough and has no excuse.