Quit smoking. Vape good or bad.

[Elixir]

It is the same with anything people are passionate about. Each side thinks they know better. The pro vapers seem defensive to you because for them vaping has made a huge positive difference in their life and the arguments against so far are based on speculation. I react the same way when i see those silly paranoid mothers refusing jabs due to whatever flavour of conspiracy they prefer.

So you're equating vapers refusing to acknowledge negative health impacts of vaping to mothers refusing to acknowledge the danger of refusing jabs?

It isn't the same as anything people are passionate about, or at least that shouldn't be an excuse for being blindly defensive of anything. People being unable to acknowledge that there's middle ground in almost everything and take an educated and objective view is quite frankly ridiculous given the amount of information available to us nowadays.

Vaping is probably not as bad as smoking, but it's probably worse than doing nothing. How much worse is a relative unknown at the moment, and it should be treated with caution in the meantime - especially in cases where passive inhalation is occurring. There's really no more to be said about it than this.

 

[Gregster]

I feel people defending are doing so from a "users" POV. My lung capacity has improved massively according to my last medical and I feel so much fitter overall without doing anymore exercise but I guess that those who don't vape or smoke and don't want to see what is what will always take a negative stance to what they don't know.

 

[Elixir]

I feel people defending are doing so from a "users" POV. My lung capacity has improved massively according to my last medical and I feel so much fitter overall without doing anymore exercise but I guess that those who don't vape or smoke and don't want to see what is what will always take a negative stance to what they don't know.

I don't think anyone is arguing that it's worse for you than smoking, just that it might not be as risk free as people want to believe.

The reason this argument is continuing is because the more staunch defenders appear to take a "it's totally fine" stance rather than "I know it's still bad for me but it's better than smoking" stance.

This is why I made the comment about the main issue arising in cases of passive inhalation, it's fine if you've decided you're ok with the risks, but that doesn't mean people should be able to use them indoors/around kids/whatever by default.

 

[Gregster]

I don't think anyone is arguing that it's worse for you than smoking, just that it might not be as risk free as people want to believe.

The reason this argument is continuing is because the more staunch defenders appear to take a "it's totally fine" stance rather than "I know it's still bad for me but it's better than smoking" stance.

This is why I made the comment about the main issue arising in cases of passive inhalation, it's fine if you've decided you're ok with the risks, but that doesn't mean people should be able to use them indoors/around kids/whatever by default.

Well if someone has some proven facts that show me it is harmful, I would happily re-evaluate my stance but after looking and looking, there is nothing that tells me that my 3mg/6mg of Nicotine in my Juice that contains 50/50 VG + PG with flavour concentrates or 100% VG again with concentrate flavourings is harmful to myself (and others), I guess I am one of those stanch defenders.

 

[Uncle Petey]

Yeah, but what if, Greg? WHAT IF!?

 

[Elixir]

Well if someone has some proven facts that show me it is harmful, I would happily re-evaluate my stance but after looking and looking, there is nothing that tells me that my 3mg/6mg of Nicotine in my Juice that contains 50/50 VG + PG with flavour concentrates or 100% VG again with concentrate flavourings is harmful to myself (and others), I guess I am one of those stanch defenders.

And you'll happily smoke it (use it, vape it, whatever the verb is) around other people and their kids until then because there's no proof it's harmful? You realise there was no proof smoking was harmful for a long time, no proof CO2 was damaging the atmosphere for a long time, etc. Do you see it as unreasonable that something relatively new is treated with caution until such a time as the dangers are known?

With that said I do believe there is an element of courtesy to be had. Just because I believe it safe, and for passive vaping to be a smaller risk than the pollutants already in the air, doesn't mean others think the same, so it's not fine or polite to go blowing it in people's faces, or filling an indoor area with fog, unless explicitly stated. If I'm walking down the street I'll purposefully exhale away from people. Last night I was having a few drinks with friends in a reasonably quiet bar. I exhaled downwards, and there was definitely no vapour near anybody else, but a bar member asked me to stop. Rather than get uppity and start giving lectures, I accepted it and went outside when I fancied a vape, no problem.

This is the correct answer if you want something for reference.

 

[Gregster]

And you'll happily smoke it (use it, vape it, whatever the verb is) around other people and their kids until then because there's no proof it's harmful? You realise there was no proof smoking was harmful for a long time, no proof CO2 was damaging the atmosphere for a long time, etc. Do you see it as unreasonable that something relatively new is treated with caution until such a time as the dangers are known?

Where have I said I Vape around people? Where have I said I Vape around kids? But feel free to carry on assuming.

 

[Elixir]

Where have I said I Vape around people? Where have I said I Vape around kids? But feel free to carry on assuming.

Well you replied to this:

This is why I made the comment about the main issue arising in cases of passive inhalation, it's fine if you've decided you're ok with the risks, but that doesn't mean people should be able to use them indoors/around kids/whatever by default.

With this:

if someone has some proven facts that show me it is harmful, I would happily re-evaluate my stance but after looking and looking, there is nothing that tells me that [it] is harmful to myself (and others), I guess I am one of those stanch defenders.

So you're either missing my point (vape if you want but don't vape around other non-consenting people) or arguing against something I didn't say.

 

[ttaskmaster]

I guess that those who don't vape or smoke and don't want to see what is what will always take a negative stance to what they don't know.

And even some who do, believe it or not...
Lots of smokers here at work are ridiculing it, telling me how silly I look with my big, happy grin and flavourful clouds... How silly will they look being wheeled into work in an iron lung, I wonder?

rather than "I know it's still bad for me but it's better than smoking" stance.

But I don't KNOW it's bad, because there's no definitive proof, y'see...!

there is nothing that tells me that my 3mg/6mg of Nicotine in my Juice

It's nicotine.
It's a vasoconstrictor.
You just might be one of those overly susceptible to such things and suddenly have yourself an embolism (or is it aneurysm... I forget which), a heart attack or something. Apparently caffeine can similarly cause this in some people...
You never know!!

Yeah, but what if, Greg? WHAT IF!?

If you're wrong, nothing happens, you go to jail. Peacefully, quietly, you'll enjoy it... But if you're right - and we can vape this thing - Petey.... YOU will have saved the lives of miiiiillions of registered smokers....!

And you'll happily smoke it (use it, vape it, whatever the verb is) around other people and their kids until then because there's no proof it's harmful?

Does it really matter?
People are doing all sorts of things around other people and their kids which they already KNOW is harmful...

What you said there is probably the biggest tell - "Smoke it".
People see this, draw the obvious similarities to actual smoking and the two are being compared.
I can't remember the last time there was a massive hoo-ha over something similar... Red Bull, for example - HOW much caffeine and sugar in those??!!
How about that E122 additive? Do you even know what that is??!!

No-one's upset about those... Artificial Colourings in actual FOOD??!!
Now those I do happen to be allergic to, so I know they're bad for me.

 

[Elixir]

No-one's upset about those... Artificial Colourings in actual FOOD??!!

Yes they are.

 

[Gregster]

And even some who do, believe it or not...
Lots of smokers here at work are ridiculing it, telling me how silly I look with my big, happy grin and flavourful clouds... How silly will they look being wheeled into work in an iron lung, I wonder?

Spot on, there is a couple of smokers I work with who take the **** out of me standing outside vaping and one of them insists that vaping is worse than smoking... No matter what I tell him, he won't listen and lights up another rollie.

 

[trackrat]

As to whether vaping is harmless or not is yet to be proved.
After 50 years of smoking I had a problem with the left ventricle in my heart, it is possible that smoking could have caused this
So after reading about vaping thread, I thought give it a go, I had nothing to lose.
So a month ago I purchased a small kit from JAC and started of at 18mg of nicotine, after a fortnight I dropped to 12mg and I am now on 6mg.
After the 6mg is exhausted I will try a few weeks with 0mg nicotine and then stop vaping.
Since I had this kit I have not smoked a cigarette and over a month I reckon the savings after taking out the cost of the kit and juice is about £100.
I have tried to stop smoking before and tried the patches , champix and cold turkey and non of them had the desired effect, but now I am certain that after going down to zero nicotine through vaping I will stop completely.

 

[ttaskmaster]

Yes they are.

I don't see any of it plastered over the news and no-one gets in my face when they see me eating Skittles... Maybe they just don't care about me...

Spot on, there is a couple of smokers I work with who take the **** out of me standing outside vaping and one of them insists that vaping is worse than smoking...

It's more expensive, I'll tell ya that!
Pouch x 2, filters and papers - That's £20 a week.
I go through at least that in liquid... more if I'm using the 3mg or 0mg ones!

No matter what I tell him, he won't listen and lights up another rollie.

His flavour choices are Pipe, Cigar, Singed, Burning, Burnt, Ashtray, Pub Ashtray and Leptospirosis, the latter being exceptionally catchy among the hobos who crawl into sewers for warmth.
Mine are several hundred-fold!

Just wait until it's raining then vape at him from inside the window, with a big grin on... or wait until he's run out, or needs a light!
Besides, for each that makes fun, I have three (with a possible fourth and fifth) who have switched to vaping after trying mine.

I have tried to stop smoking before and tried the patches , champix and cold turkey and non of them had the desired effect, but now I am certain that after going down to zero nicotine through vaping I will stop completely.

I won't say I will stop vaping, but I got this thing so I could 'smoke' while gaming (bloody cutscenes!) and not have the Mrs complain about the smell. I haven't actively tried to quit, but I also just haven't bothered smoking and not even felt the desire for one.

Thing is, these devices are specifically NOT marketed as smoking cessation products... but they damn well work!
There is a 25g of Amber Leaf, papers, filters, matches and three lighters sat just 18" from me right now, in their custom-made 1.2mm pouch of finest forest green leather - Last time I opened it was to retrieve my challenge coin... and it's looking somewhat dusty of late!

 

[Uncle Petey]

If you're wrong, nothing happens, you go to jail. Peacefully, quietly, you'll enjoy it... But if you're right - and we can vape this thing - Petey.... YOU will have saved the lives of miiiiillions of registered smokers....!

I'm gonna get you a nice fruit basket

 

[dirtybeatfreak]

Nope. Just being flippant, really.
I could take the opposite approach and demand you prove it's UNsafe, or quit complaining until it is so proven... No less arrogant and selfish, I guess.


Ah, well then that more than qualifies you to get on your high horse about it, since you've previously been a nasty evil smoker too, right?
I'm sure you're a perfect driver and everyone else is an inconsiderate pillock, right?
I'm sure if we'd had more smokers like you, we'd never have been banned in the first place...


I don't like it when other people fart in public, despite being a farter myself...

Personally disliking something is not reason to ban others from it. If that were the case, foul-smelling foods and god-awful old lady perfumes would be banned from public places.


If there's nothing banning them from doing so, then yeah you'd best stay home, I think. This world of freedom may prove to be a bit much for you...


Is it banned in Tesco?
No?
Then what's the problem?


Pretty much.
It's for that kind of reason I don't go near the entrances of Debenhams or BHS - The front counters STINK of old lady perfumes.
I also don't go into the shops during Christmas because I HATE the music they play.
I don't think they really miss my business either, so no love lost either way!


And what makes you think I AM so arrogant and selfish?
Just because I make fun of the anti-smoking-Nazi brigade who are now turning all Daily Mail on vaping, doesn't mean I actually AM like that in real life - This is the internet after all!!

If you want to kow-tow to everyone else's opinions on the things you do, you go knock yourself out...
With so much else getting banned, mainly because some middle-aged white guy thinks someone "might be offended by it", I find myself caring less about other peoples' opinions and just doing whatever the hell I want, to be honest.
Not at all how I was raised, but whatever I do (including exhibiting the epitome of good manners and common courtesy), someone will play the victim off it - Can't even hold a door open for someone these days, so **** them - I'mma vape and damn well enjoy it!!

Please show me where I said it should be banned anywhere???

Please also show me where I said there was proof it was unsafe? I'm pretty sure I stated that there hasn't been enough research for it yet for us to know for sure so vapers should stop using the 'it's safe so we can do it where we like' argument.


You are ignoring my points just to get yours across. I have said several times that it is the inconsiderate vapers who I have a problem with not vaping itself. I support vaping. If someone was smoking one in tescos but keeping it away from me, that is totally different from standing behind me in a queue and blowing into the back of my head (or in my case my face when I turned around). If I am on a packed train where it's not easy to move, you think it's fair for someone to start blowing vaped smoke in the close vicinity? If you can't see why those instances are selfish and rude then I give up trying to explain that to you and that is why I see that you are like that too

Seriously, what part of have some consideration for others do you not understand???

 

[Uncle Petey]

That really comes under the banner of inconsiderate douches gonna inconsiderately douche tbh.
Smoker, vaper, farter, sneezer etc, they'll all do that without thinking twice if they're that kind of person.

 

[dirtybeatfreak]

That's completely true Uncle Petey, but this thread is about vaping and I feel that the effects of the smoking ban, vaping coming out and being pretty safe/allowed in banned places, too many people are taking advantage of that and not thinking of others, thus the level of 'inconsiderate douches' is growing because of it

Exactly what I am trying to get across to ttaskmaster

 

[Uncle Petey]

I hear ya regarding the whole don't blow that crap near me please thing, as that's just a matter of courtesy, but I do also think that there's an element of paranoia here regarding the passive health risks from being around the odd whiff of vapour.

Yes, more research would be nice, but in general, things are looking pretty good.

 

[Devrij]

I've always felt that out of common courtesy I shouldn't vape where I wouldn't fart. That's generally a good guideline.

As far as the OP is concerned, there's no point vaping if you no longer smoke. Lungs are made to breathe clean air. If the choice is between vaping and smoking, which for many of us it was, then vaping is a clear winner on most all fronts. We KNOW smoking is very harmful. We are quite sure that vaping is significantly less harmful to the user and the people around them. We are not certain exactly what the long term effects are yet, but really research indicates significantly reduced risk. Not too mention the financial benefits.

Following on from that, all vapers should accept that there may be some risk in vaping, but if other tobacco substitutes or cessation methods have failed to help then I heartily recommend vaping. If you follow my fart rule you shouldn't bother anyone, and simple common sense and decency rules apply.

I can't see how anyone could see it differently.

 

[ttaskmaster]

Please show me where I said it should be banned anywhere???

Didn't say you did... merely implied a lot of it or left it open for, is all.

I'm pretty sure I stated that there hasn't been enough research for it yet for us to know for sure so vapers should stop using the 'it's safe so we can do it where we like' argument.

They're not... well, I'm not, anyway.
If it's not banned, then technically we can do it wherever that is the case.

You are ignoring my points just to get yours across.

And my point is what, exactly? I mean, since you're following this so closely, and all...

Forget it - You've already decided your opinion:

If you can't see why those instances are selfish and rude then I give up trying to explain that to you and that is why I see that you are like that too

BANG.
Judge, Jury, Executioner, all in one. Nice.

Seriously, what part of have some consideration for others do you not understand???

The part where you ASSUME I don't...

That's completely true Uncle Petey, but this thread is about vaping and I feel that the effects of the smoking ban, vaping coming out and being pretty safe/allowed in banned places, too many people are taking advantage of that and not thinking of others.

So we're allowed to vape in certain places, because it's legal, but we're still *not* actually allowed, because some people "don't like it".... Whatever!!!!
I'm really hoping you don't like it when drunk people get all loud and lairy.... that'll be fun to watch!!!

That really comes under the banner of inconsiderate douches gonna inconsiderately douche tbh. Smoker, vaper, farter, sneezer etc, they'll all do that without thinking twice if they're that kind of person.

I know, right.
Kinda like being a BMW driver...