Raptor Lake Leaks + Intel 4 developments

Grim5 · 20 Jan 2022 at 20:17

Dave2150 said:
I agree with this, more expensive CPU will always give more performance over a high end motherboard.

High end motherboards are mainly a waste of money, unless you 1. Push crazy overclocks with exotic cooling, 2. Have need for high end audio supplied by high end motherboards. Many now come with USB powered DAC's, amplifiers and are on par with very expensive stand alone audio equipement.

Few things to clear up:

* High end boards are not better for CPU overclocking, low and mid range range boards can do very well. However, some, not all high end boards are better at RAM overclocking - thisnis because they sacrifice RAM capacity for shorter traces that reduce signal noise.

* Audio: The audio on high end boards isn't actually good, I recently took a look at the components on top Gigabyte, Asus and MSI x570 and Z690 boards and was surprised to learn that even the most expensive motherboard you can buy from either brand is only using mid range audio components. I did not find a single board packing top of the range audio even $2000 motherboards. If you want good audio, use a soundcard or DAC/Amp combo they are much better than onboard and the difference becomes greater the more expensive your speakers or headphones are.

* So if high end boards are not for overclocking and audio then what is their purpose? They have two main purposes, overkill gamer looks and having the most IO ports (most amount of usb, data, Nvme connections, fan hubs and 10g Lan etc so that you can connect more things to your system)

g67575 · 20 Jan 2022 at 21:42

It's easier with AMD, as the mid tier chipsets like B550 support overclocking, unlike mid their Intel boards. You just need to get a board that supplies enough power to max out the boost speeds (with VRM heatsinks), and save some money for a decent cooler. Even if you don't do this, I'd expect that you'd probably only miss out on 200-300mhz of core speed (so probably just a few percent in real-world performance). With AMD, their CPUs already have decent performance without needing to configure BIOS settings.

It's a fair bet that most Zen 4 CPUs will be able to handle 5ghz with little to no tweaking, Intel's unlocked CPUs could start to look somewhat redundant.

Dave2150 · 20 Jan 2022 at 21:53

Grim5 said:
Few things to clear up:

* High end boards are not better for CPU overclocking, low and mid range range boards can do very well. However, some, not all high end boards are better at RAM overclocking - thisnis because they sacrifice RAM capacity for shorter traces that reduce signal noise.

* Audio: The audio on high end boards isn't actually good, I recently took a look at the components on top Gigabyte, Asus and MSI x570 and Z690 boards and was surprised to learn that even the most expensive motherboard you can buy from either brand is only using mid range audio components. I did not find a single board packing top of the range audio even $2000 motherboards. If you want good audio, use a soundcard or DAC/Amp combo they are much better than onboard and the difference becomes greater the more expensive your speakers or headphones are.

* So if high end boards are not for overclocking and audio then what is their purpose? They have two main purposes, overkill gamer looks and having the most IO ports (most amount of usb, data, Nvme connections, fan hubs and 10g Lan etc so that you can connect more things to your system)

Agree about Gigabyte motheboard audio specifically, though have personally had good results with the Asus ROG Maximus Z590/Z690 board, they drive my Sennheiser HD660S just as well as a high end standalone amp/DAC.

For the overclocking part, the boards breaking world record with LN2/Cryo etc are exclusively high end boards, though we're talking 0.1% of people, so hardly the norm

Dave2150 · 26 Jan 2022 at 17:43

Intel 13th-gen Raptor Lake: Socket Compatibility

XDA Developers said:
Intel’s 13th-gen Raptor Lake CPUs will use the same LGA1700 CPU socket used by Alder Lake chips. This will come as a relief for those who are eyeing a Raptor Lake upgrade later this year. This also means you’ll be able to carry the existing LGA1700 motherboards and CPU coolers too, There are currently no rumors or leaks pointing towards Intel’s plans to keep the LGA1700 socket for the 14th-gen Core processors too.

Source: https://www.xda-developers.com/intel-13th-gen-raptor-lake/

Excellent news regarding Z690 motherboard compatibility. Quite a few rumours on this at this point in time, so looking increasingly likely. That said, won't benefit me, as I'm looking to get a 2 DIMM board for Z790 anyway, though good news for Z690 owners overall.

Also further information in a nicely written article. Roll on benchmarks!

turbot1984 · 26 Jan 2022 at 17:49

Grim5 said:
* High end boards are not better for CPU overclocking, low and mid range range boards can do very well.

But VRM's are better, so better chance of a nice stable overclock? Particularly when your cpu is norking out 200+ watts.

Robert896r1 · 26 Jan 2022 at 18:02

turbot1984 said:
But VRM's are better, so better chance of a nice stable overclock? Particularly when your cpu is norking out 200+ watts.

z690 vrms' are pretty overkill.

Ayahuasca · 26 Jan 2022 at 18:40

Yeah I can’t see the VRMs on even the cheapest z690 holding the chip back, outside of extreme over clocking.

Vulture · 26 Jan 2022 at 19:40

As soon as Intel start using MCM design and 3d stacking cores, big/little will be dead.

Grim5 · 26 Jan 2022 at 21:41

Gondar said:
As soon as Intel start using MCM design and 3d stacking cores, big/little will be dead.

The CPUs with stacked transistors is coming in 2024/2025. Probably the later and maybe even delayed to 2026 since it requires Intel's 2nm node

Vulture · 27 Jan 2022 at 00:23

Grim5 said:
The CPUs with stacked transistors is coming in 2024/2025. Probably the later and maybe even delayed to 2026 since it requires Intel's 2nm node

We will see about 3d, but MCM design will probably come sooner, and big/little is short term solution until they solve MCM design to be able to put all 16 P cores. Big/little is ok for mobile devices, but i wouldn't put them in my desktop PC even if Intel pays me. i hope RPL is last big/little design.

Perfect_Chaos · 27 Jan 2022 at 05:55

Gondar said:
We will see about 3d, but MCM design will probably come sooner, and big/little is short term solution until they solve MCM design to be able to put all 16 P cores. Big/little is ok for mobile devices, but i wouldn't put them in my desktop PC even if Intel pays me. i hope RPL is last big/little design.

I hope boards that come out for RPL can work with at least Meteor Lake.

Dicehunter · 27 Jan 2022 at 19:43

Perfect_Chaos said:
I hope boards that come out for RPL can work with at least Meteor Lake.

From what I have read so far the CPU gen after RPL will be a different socket with more pins, I think it was LGA1800 or LGA1900, Not too sure, But Z790 aside from some tiny features will just be Z690 v.2.0 so it'll be a single CPU gen type deal.

Grim5 · 27 Jan 2022 at 22:02

Gondar said:
We will see about 3d, but MCM design will probably come sooner, and big/little is short term solution until they solve MCM design to be able to put all 16 P cores. Big/little is ok for mobile devices, but i wouldn't put them in my desktop PC even if Intel pays me. i hope RPL is last big/little design.

MCM yes, that easy now everyone is doing it in one form or another so Intel will at some point too (probably MCM GPU before a CPU though). The 3D stuff is much harder to do, it's about increasing transistor density - where as MCM is about putting more chips on bigger and bigger surface area, 3D is about adding in several hundred percent more transistors without having to increase surface area and it requires advancement in new technology, one of which is in chip cooling (you have to provide some cooling between each layer of transistors, rather than just letting all the heat rise up through the layers into the IHS)

Perfect_Chaos · 28 Jan 2022 at 01:16

Dicehunter said:
From what I have read so far the CPU gen after RPL will be a different socket with more pins, I think it was LGA1800 or LGA1900, Not too sure, But Z790 aside from some tiny features will just be Z690 v.2.0 so it'll be a single CPU gen type deal.

So no upgrade possible for those who decide to jump in at the RPL release, have to wait for Meteor Lake, shame.

Dave2150 · 28 Jan 2022 at 08:21

Perfect_Chaos said:
So no upgrade possible for those who decide to jump in at the RPL release, have to wait for Meteor Lake, shame.

Z690 is the platform to get if you want a very good chance at getting two meaningful generations of CPU out of Intel on a single motherboard. That said, it's still not guaranteed, just (heavily) rumoured over the last year or so.

Vulture · 28 Jan 2022 at 15:58

RPL Lake is 99% last cpu generation for this platform, while Zen 4 is the first one, and you will get at least 2 next cpu gen from AMD. It is best to wait for Zen 4.

Dave2150 · 31 Jan 2022 at 10:21

Gondar said:
RPL Lake is 99% last cpu generation for this platform, while Zen 4 is the first one, and you will get at least 2 next cpu gen from AMD. It is best to wait for Zen 4.

Best to see performance of both and then make a decision, too many unknowns at this point. Release date of both could also be months away, were RPL or Zen4 to be delayed.

Grim5 · 11 Feb 2022 at 08:40

Raptor lake 13900k shows up in ashes of singularity benchmarks, confirms it has 24 cores and 32 threads

https://wccftech.com/intel-13th-gen...chmark-leak-32-threads-es-12900k-performance/

Ayahuasca · 11 Feb 2022 at 09:36

Grim5 said:
Raptor lake 13900k shows up in ashes of singularity benchmarks, confirms it has 24 cores and 32 threads

https://wccftech.com/intel-13th-gen...chmark-leak-32-threads-es-12900k-performance/

Nice, I see one of our residents had to quickly try and discredit it

Vulture · 11 Feb 2022 at 12:16

Ayahuasca said:
Nice, I see one of our residents had to quickly try and discredit it

Patrick haha, funny guy. He bases his opinion and theory on what Intel CEO says on twitter, hardcore level of fanboysm.