No doubt zen 4 will be a larger jump than RPL but remember that ADL is already 20% ahead in single thread and 40% in multi core on some of the lower core count parts so it's a big gap to make up. AMD may well win out overall with the 7950X but I can't see how they will beat a 13600k which will have 14/20 cores and threads with a 7600X only featuring 6/12 and the same goes for a 16/24 13700k against a 8/16 7800X unless AMD is intending to go for £200 and £300 pricing on release.
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Raptor Lake Leaks + Intel 4 developments
- Thread starter g67575
- Start date
It all comes down to price. Hopefully, they will release a 5ghz 8 core CPU for around £300-£350. Maybe a 12 Core for £400.
It's true that people might need to wait 3-6 months for the prices to fall to a reasonable level though.
I don't think the E-Cores are really much of a factor (except on laptops), but it really depends how successful Intel is in marketing them.
It's true that people might need to wait 3-6 months for the prices to fall to a reasonable level though.
I don't think the E-Cores are really much of a factor (except on laptops), but it really depends how successful Intel is in marketing them.
Maybe they are so confident it will be enough, AMD use chiplet design, they can add more cores easily, i mean that's the whole point of chiplet design, they already increased core counts in server, they can do same in desktop, and they don't need as much amount as Intel because of all big cores design. And e-cores doesn't help in gaming.
AMD is already getting ~4.7ghz on 8 threads with the 5800X (I know some can do more than this also), so they might even be able to go higher than 5ghz with the 7800X / whatever it's called.
5800X Boost clock analysis:
https://tpucdn.com/review/amd-ryzen-7-5800x/images/boost-clock-analysis.png
Looks like they need to improve AVX frequencies still though, hopefully the higher power limits on AM5 will be useful there.
EDIT - Looks like the L2 cache per core is double the amount of Zen 3, at least for Zen 4 server CPUs:
https://www.techpowerup.com/293340/...cpus-confirmed-to-have-1-mb-l2-cache-per-core
No evidence of V-Cache usage, however.
5800X Boost clock analysis:
https://tpucdn.com/review/amd-ryzen-7-5800x/images/boost-clock-analysis.png
Looks like they need to improve AVX frequencies still though, hopefully the higher power limits on AM5 will be useful there.
EDIT - Looks like the L2 cache per core is double the amount of Zen 3, at least for Zen 4 server CPUs:
https://www.techpowerup.com/293340/...cpus-confirmed-to-have-1-mb-l2-cache-per-core
No evidence of V-Cache usage, however.
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Even when clocked at 4.7ghz all core the 5800X is still 40% slower than a 12700K in multi core so it's a lot for zen 4 to overcome especially with RPL further increasing core counts.
Those CPUs cost more though, you'll be paying around £550 and £800 for 12/16 from AMD whereas Intel will sell you 14 cores for about £300 and 16 cores for around £400 on RPL. The same money for AMD will only get you 6 or 8 cores.
It's quite possible, the 5900X would've been around £500 on launch in the UK. So, a similar price on launch for a 12 core Zen 4 CPU wouldn't shock me.
They probably won't be cheaper than Zen 3 on launch, as TSMC reportedly increased their 5nm EUV price. And L2 cache is quite expensive (which appears to be increased with Zen 4). There's a bit of inflation to take into account also (around 9.1% from today's date, since the 5900x launched).
So, presumably, lots of people will opt for cheaper 8 core CPUs instead, or they will have to wait for the 12 core price to reach a more affordable amount. By which point, Intel's Meteor Lake 7nm EUV CPUs won't be far off (the likelihood of this seems very high as they completed prototypes around October 2021).
I suppose the consolation, is that the AM5 platform will probably be upgradable for many years.
They probably won't be cheaper than Zen 3 on launch, as TSMC reportedly increased their 5nm EUV price. And L2 cache is quite expensive (which appears to be increased with Zen 4). There's a bit of inflation to take into account also (around 9.1% from today's date, since the 5900x launched).
So, presumably, lots of people will opt for cheaper 8 core CPUs instead, or they will have to wait for the 12 core price to reach a more affordable amount. By which point, Intel's Meteor Lake 7nm EUV CPUs won't be far off (the likelihood of this seems very high as they completed prototypes around October 2021).
I suppose the consolation, is that the AM5 platform will probably be upgradable for many years.
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I doubt this fight will be so simple, i'm quite sure AMD know what they are doing, and it will be competitive from bottom to the top.
TPU test a wide range of productivity and non gaming tasks and they have the 12700K coming out around 11% ahead of the 5800X on average across the entire workload. It wins some benchmarks by a larger margin but it also loses some.
40% is coming from CB at a guess but rendering is just 1 subset of workloads so using that figure for all workload types is not really that accurate.
Zen 4 is likely to win in gaming vs RPL. I expect productivity may be a toss up. Rendering I can see RPL winning but Zen 4 will win other workloads. So overall I expect Zen 4 to be better in both but there will be a few workloads where RPL excels.
EDIT: Just checking Phoronix and there they had the 12900K as 30% faster than the 5800X in their CPU suite as a geomean. So no, the 12700K is not 40% ahead of the 5800X in non gaming workloads. It might be for rendering but others not so much.
I should hope so too, the 12700k has 4 more cores than the 5800x!
Soldato
It all boils down to two simple questions:
How much does it cost?
How does it perform?
If company A can provide better performance than company B at a given price pont, I don't care if they are infusing their CPU's with magic pixie dust. Cores, nodes, die size, clock speeds....all just a means to an end.
Indeed. Just hope both have their power usage under control on the next lot of CPU's, Graphics cards seem to be going bonkers !
Honest question, do you not think that if Intel have the performance crown they will up there prices? Afterall they are a company just like AMD with the primary purpose of making a profit. I would say Intel pricing teh 12900KS is a prime example of Intel milking its customers for a product that potentiallu may not even be the fastst in games come the end of April
Most people don't care about the prices of the top end SKUs like the KS as only a few people end up buying them and those that do really deserve to be milked.
Both companies will milk their customers but Intel always have a full line up around release with cheaper SKUs to choose from right down to $100 also AMD jacked it's prices across the board but the heaviest % increases came on the cheapest parts which meant many more customers got milked than will ever do so on the KS.
When zen 3 released the cheapest AMD had was the ryzen 5 for $300 or a 50% increase on a zen 2 ryzen 5, Intel on the other hand from 10 years between the i5 2500k to the i5 12600k only increased pricing by 35% despite being on top for most of that time.
Most of the times Intel released same architecture and changed socket so they could milk us, while AMD bumped performance with every generation. And without AMD we would still be on skylake, even if prices remain same it is practically same product so...
The only reason Intel remained on skylake for so long was because they failed to execute the move to 10nm which was originally planned for 2015 so it's not like Intel were holding back but rather the opposite in that they were overly ambitious, had Intel been able to produce on time then AMD would probably be bankrupt by now.
So reading between teh lines Intel were 7 years late, so what you are saying is they are incompetent. Intel where proper milking the customer pre ZEN, hopefully now Intel woll start to inovate with Meteor Lake, i have 2 Intel systems here which are desperate for a upgrade. One will go AM5 the other i hope will go Meteor Lake as i like to have systems from Red and Blue team, after all cannot really moan about either if you have not tried both
Caporegime
You should really be comparing the 12700K (£390) to its price competitor, 5900X £400. There is about 5% between them and the 5900X is only running about 4.0 to 4.2Ghz. With a higher power limit the 5900X would beat the 12700K, that's all it needs, to be allowed to clock higher.
In Zen 4 form its going to get a lot more than that.
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