Raptor Lake Leaks + Intel 4 developments

[g67575]

Put another way, I think AMD will need to clock their Zen 4 CPUs around 8-10% higher, than a Golden Cove CPU at 5Ghz, to keep up in single core performance.

That's based on the 4ghz Zen 3/Golden Cove results above. In other words, 5.4Ghz to 5.5Ghz.

I think the demo showed the Core speeds dipping to ~5.2Ghz on some cores, so I suppose we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[LePhuronn]

Put another way, I think AMD will need to clock their Zen 4 CPUs around 8-10% higher, than a Golden Cove CPU at 5Ghz, to keep up in single core performance.

That's based on the 4ghz Zen 3/Golden Cove results above. In other words, 5.4Ghz to 5.5Ghz.

And we saw the gaming demo of the 16 core Zen 4 doing average 5.5GHz on multiple cores. A single core could well go higher again, so I don't think V cache will be necessary to retake the gaming crown.

 

[g67575]

Cache matters a lot in games, this is where I think AMD's V-cache design will give them a significant advantage.

 

[Joxeon]

This has never been true, at least not in the way the collective consciousness thinks it's true.

If this was true, the FX 9590 should have been the ultimate consumer CPU given it was the first to have a 5GHz clock out of the box, but Intel crushed it.
If this was true, Pentium 4 should have ruled the roost, but AMD humiliated them.
If this was true, Comet Lake and Rocket Lake should never have succumbed to Zen 3.

High clocks don't mean anything in and of themselves.


For Intel maybe. Zen 4 doing 5.5GHz sustained boost on multiple cores in a purely out-of-the-box config with only a 35W uplift in the platforms maximum design power isn't "diminishing returns".

I thought TDP was increasing from 105w to 170w for the top end parts?

 

[Twinz]

I thought TDP was increasing from 105w to 170w for the top end parts?

PPT is what I thought was going to 170w. So the current number for comparison is 140w on AM4.

 

[arknor]

Cache matters a lot in games, this is where I think AMD's V-cache design will give them a significant advantage.

on the 5800X3D it only mattered at 1080

 

[g67575]

on the 5800X3D it only mattered at 1080

Don't buy a new CPU, if you're happy with what you've got?

The 5800X3D is cheaper than the 12900K and much cheaper than the 12900KS.

So, for probably around £400, the 7800X3D is likely to be better bang for gamers (and have higher minimum FPS), than the 13700K and13900K

 

[Joxeon]

PPT is what I thought was going to 170w. So the current number for comparison is 140w on AM4.

From what Ive seen it's the TDP going to 170w with PPT at 230w, this is no doubt how AMD is gaining the +35% in MT despite no increase in core counts and only single digits IPC.

 

[jStarOptimization]

Any game or program which has bottlenecks due to memory latency but not memory bandwidth will benefit greatly by large cache provided by 3D versions of AMD CPU's. This type of program or game also benefits from higher end Intel CPU's where the individual core performance is nearly identical, but the larger core count provides a larger cache - albeit marginal differences. I have seen some benchmarks which didn't show improvement at larger resolutions average or maximum framerate, but did show great improvement in minimum fps and 1% lows. This is due to the nature of system bottlenecks at the time that fps is that low. In games that show marked improvement in 1% lows and minimum fps with 3D-vcache CPU's, the nature of the bottleneck is very likely to be a memory lane and latency bottleneck. This is far too complex to simplify down to any definitive statements. There is a reason for the differences in behavior. The details mean a lot.

 

[g67575]

Indeed, I think some people will look for a CPU with good all around performance (but maybe not the best in all areas), and also the highest possible minimum framerates. Comparing the power usage of the 5800X and 5800X3D, it looks like there isn't much of an increase in power consumption.

Cooling and total build cost matter too, you will probably be able to use less powerful coolers and mid end motherboards to max out a Zen 4 CPU with V-Cache (depending on if it's a 8, 12 or 16 core model), compared to the very hot and power hungry 12900K and 13900K.

Also, people with a Zen 4 CPU and RDNA2/3 GPU should able be able to enable 'Smart Access Memory' /resizable bar, which from the beginning seems to have been much provided a clearer benefit to minimum frame rates (and seems to be always enabled), compared to Nvidia's version of the technology.

 

[arknor]

Cooling and total build cost matter too, you will probably be able to use less powerful coolers and mid end motherboards to max out a Zen 4 CPU with V-Cache (depending on if it's a 8, 12 or 16 core model), compared to the very hot and power hungry 12900K and 13900K.

or just use a 12700k why compare a 5800 to a 12900? makes no sense

 

[g67575]

Wow, an external SSD (USB 4), that can transfer 3GB single files in ~1 second! Great if true:

ORICO Launches High-Performing Portable USB4 SSD Inspired by Mondrian

ORICO - Shenzhen-based innovative enterprise focusing on high-performance solutions for USB data transmission and charging - is proud to unveil the ORICO USB4 High Speed Portable SSD Montage 40 Gbps series, with a striking and durable design inspired Dutch painter Piet Mondrian. The bold and...

www.techpowerup.com

Intel really needs USB4 support in high end 13th gen boards... Could be great for fast system image backups.

 

[g67575]

or just use a 12700k why compare a 5800 to a 12900? makes no sense

I was talking about the 5800X3D, which is competitive with the 12700K and 12900K in games, especially when comparing DDR4 systems.

 

[Bencher]

Indeed, I think some people will look for a CPU with good all around performance (but maybe not the best in all areas), and also the highest possible minimum framerates. Comparing the power usage of the 5800X and 5800X3D, it looks like there isn't much of an increase in power consumption.

Cooling and total build cost matter too, you will probably be able to use less powerful coolers and mid end motherboards to max out a Zen 4 CPU with V-Cache (depending on if it's a 8, 12 or 16 core model), compared to the very hot and power hungry 12900K and 13900K.

Also, people with a Zen 4 CPU and RDNA2/3 GPU should able be able to enable 'Smart Access Memory' /resizable bar, which from the beginning seems to have been much provided a clearer benefit to minimum frame rates (and seems to be always enabled), compared to Nvidia's version of the technology.

My very hot and power hungry 12900k maxes out my 3090 in Farcry 6 at 25w / around 100 fps

 

[g67575]

The price is not that bad on the 12900f, which is basically a powered limited version of the unlocked chip, but a 5800X3D is still cheaper (now <£400).

 

[Joxeon]

The price is not that bad on the 12900f, which is basically a powered limited version of the unlocked chip, but a 5800X3D is still cheaper (now <£400).

Don't forget that cheap DDR4 B660 boards with an external clockgen will be available for when RPL arrives so cheaper chips like the 13400/13700 will be able to be cranked up to 5-5.5ghz

 

[Journey]

The price is not that bad on the 12900f, which is basically a powered limited version of the unlocked chip, but a 5800X3D is still cheaper (now <£400).

Well there isn't going to be a replacement RPL of that part until early 2023, so Intel and going to have to really hit good price points with the 13600K and 13700K In October/November, especially if you are looking only at gaming as a 12900K = 13700K in terms of core count, and lots of people are going X3D and with no extra cost of newer RAM or expensive boards to get the most from it, then it becomes a hard argument for RPL offering a good value platform to gamers. It's likely that the 12400/12700K/F will still be in favour for a great deal of people if they don't mind being on a dead end platform, same for the X3D.

 

[Joxeon]

Well there isn't going to be a replacement RPL of that part until early 2023, so Intel and going to have to really hit good price points with the 13600K and 13700K In October/November, especially if you are looking only at gaming as a 12900K = 13700K in terms of core count, and lots of people are going X3D and with no extra cost of newer RAM or expensive boards to get the most from it, then it becomes a hard argument for RPL offering a good value platform to gamers. It's likely that the 12400/12700K/F will still be in favour for a great deal of people if they don't mind being on a dead end platform, same for the X3D.

The same can be said about Zen 4 in terms of what it'll offer in price to performance over the current stuff especially the 3DX for gaming only.

 

[g67575]

Well there isn't going to be a replacement RPL of that part until early 2023, so Intel and going to have to really hit good price points with the 13600K and 13700K In October/November, especially if you are looking only at gaming as a 12900K = 13700K in terms of core count, and lots of people are going X3D and with no extra cost of newer RAM or expensive boards to get the most from it, then it becomes a hard argument for RPL offering a good value platform to gamers. It's likely that the 12400/12700K/F will still be in favour for a great deal of people if they don't mind being on a dead end platform, same for the X3D.

The 5800X3D is a bad idea, unless people want/need to stay on AM4. Better to wait for the Zen 4 version at this point.

 

[g67575]

I think the non K variants could be where the 13th gen does better, at the moment lots of people will be more value conscious than usual. Also, the 13900f could probably get all core clocks of 5ghz