RDNA 3 rumours Q3/4 2022

[brostradamus]

But but but apparently it is dirt cheap to add more vram so why would they cut back?! Planned obsolescence maybe?

its fine as long as amd does it..
amd also ninjaed the 7800 to a n32 die, i was expecting some loud wailing like we heard during the nvidia announcement, but seems to have gone down pretty well

 

[KompuKare]

Ah, hadn't noticed that about the N32 die, or rather that N22 was 6700XT. Guess it at least points to logical reason why 12GB is a possibilities. Even if really cheap, 12GB is a major step back. Now it is possible that with a 192-bit bus and dense enough memory they could do 24GB (at an extra cost) but that seems unlikely.

If N31 is only 7900 (XT and XTX), then they've left a huge hole between 7800 and 7900 unlike the last time. Seems a strange decision as I'd assume that 7800 is by far the higher volume part.

 

[Nexus18]

I mean, I did mention this....

I think you missed the sarcasm in my post Not remember all the posts we had in the "is 10gb enough thread" where apparently nvidia could have added an extra 2gb or even the full 24gb all along and kept the price around £650.....

its fine as long as amd does it..
amd also ninjaed the 7800 to a n32 die, i was expecting some loud wailing like we heard during the nvidia announcement, but seems to have gone down pretty well

Yup hilarious isn't it

As posted a while back:

Personally I can't see amd downgrading the vram given how the amd fans took the **** out of amperes vram amount, if they have, I'll be laughing my ass of and creating the "is 12GB enough thread" and quoting some old posts especially if the cards are pushing £800+..... Get the popcorn ready @TNA

If performance is there though and priced right, I'll have no issues with 12gb given I still haven't had issues with 10GB

 

[Jacky60]

So within 10-15% perfomance but 40% cheaper for the FE more for AIB models...

Yep here we go again, "I'll buy AMD if they're giving cards away".

The new AMD cards are apparently cheaper to produce than the Nvidia cards, AMD should have spare wafer allocation given the contraction in CPU demand/sales, Nvidia and AMD both make extremely healthy margins on their cards. Therefore it wouldn't be 'giving them away' it would be undercutting a competitor to gain mindshare, market share and a positive re-establishment of the Radeon brand in the eyes of PC gamers.

 

[Joxeon]

its fine as long as amd does it..
amd also ninjaed the 7800 to a n32 die, i was expecting some loud wailing like we heard during the nvidia announcement, but seems to have gone down pretty well

I think people are waiting on the prices first, £600 and n32 + 12gb of ram is fine, £1000 and it'll be 'thanks for the offer but I'll have to pass'.

 

[Jacky60]

Most people do not have experience with true silence, so it would probably break the immersion if films and games in space had no sound.

Yeah I can see why they would do it although surely there could be local sounds in the ship and audio cues for incoming spacecraft from sensors rather than hearing them through the void of interstellar space.

 

[Darujhistan]

The new AMD cards are apparently cheaper to produce than the Nvidia cards, AMD should have spare wafer allocation given the contraction in CPU demand/sales, Nvidia and AMD both make extremely healthy margins on their cards. Therefore it wouldn't be 'giving them away' it would be undercutting a competitor to gain mindshare, market share and a positive re-establishment of the Radeon brand in the eyes of PC gamers.

"Apparently"

You don't undercut by 40% at launch especially when the 4090 launch has been such a ****-show. If you're doing that aren't you simply reinforcing the belief in the the publics mind that "We're the ALDI" brand anyway?

Got to be careful, do BMW undercut Mercedes by 40%?

 

[Darujhistan]

I think people are waiting on the prices first, £600 and n32 + 12gb of ram is fine, £1000 and it'll be 'thanks for the offer but I'll have to pass'.

It's all price dependenT we don't know yet, was the 4060ti a bad card? from what we know it seemed fine, but it was priced two tiers too high.

I'm looking for 3950 performance for what I think is reasonable, if I don't get that I will pass until it hits that price point or not bother at all.

That's how I buy cards. I only broke that twice, once with the 3060ti before prices went completely nutso (still paid £480 I knew I had to get in and overpay now rather than later or not at all) and then when I bought 6700XT for £700 after I sold 3060ti for £1150.

 

[Jacky60]

Again, no-one can tell me why AMD as a business should price their cards substantially cheaper than NV...(other than of course "because I wantg them too")...

They should price them substantially cheaper IF they're substantially cheaper to produce, are less fully featured (you may not care for RT but others will) and they want to gain market share. This has been explained several times but it seems you don't want to listen to the message on the principle that cards should keep ascending to the stratosphere in price and AMD should collude in this rather than taking a more long term approach to building mind share. I haven't bought an AMD card since my my 295x2 x 2 rig for the reason AMD were always around the same price or £50 cheaper with less memory for example or a bit less performance, something you outlined yourself earlier in this discussion that has now been conveniently erased from your memory.

 

[Joxeon]

It's all price dependenT we don't know yet, was the 4060ti a bad card? from what we know it seemed fine, but it was priced two tiers too high.

I'm looking for 3950 performance for what I think is reasonable, if I don't get that I will pass until it hits that price point or not bother at all.

That's how I buy cards. I only broke that twice, once with the 3060ti before prices went completely nutso (still paid £480 I knew I had to get in and overpay now rather than later or not at all) and then when I bought 6700XT for £700 after I sold 3060ti for £1150.

My expectations are 4080 16gb performance for no more than £650 and 4090 -10~15% for no more than 1k, if they can go faster than a 4090 then great but I still wouldn't pay more than 1k.

 

[brostradamus]

They should price them substantially cheaper IF they're substantially cheaper to produce, are less fully featured (you may not care for RT but others will) and they want to gain market share. This has been explained several times but it seems you don't want to listen to the message on the principle that cards should keep ascending to the stratosphere in price and AMD should collude in this rather than taking a more long term approach to building mind share. I haven't bought an AMD card since my my 295x2 x 2 rig for the reason AMD were always around the same price or £50 cheaper with less memory for example or a bit less performance, something you outlined yourself earlier in this discussion that has now been conveniently erased from your memory.

they cant really chase market share from current position.. because pricing is dynamic, if nvidia decides to slash prices amd would be saddled with an unreasonably large inventory and capex committments that would eat into their cash flows
to engage in any kind of price war amd should be in the range of 40:60 or 45:55 market share vs. nvidia, right now they dont have the flexibility
and lets say if they announce "cheap" prices without inventory to back.. i dont need to elaborate on how this is going to play out

 

[Jacky60]

Because that devalues your own brand and sharteholders would not be happy. You clearly don't understand how corporations work.

On the one hand you argue that the Radeon brand is seen negatively by a large section of the GPU buying public and on the other you worry that they might 'devalue their brand'?? Did ATI 'devalue their brand' when they released the 9700 Pro? No, they gained an enormous amount of mindshare and had stellar sales.

 

[Darujhistan]

Start a price war - slit your own throat.

 

[Darujhistan]

On the one hand you argue that the Radeon brand is seen negatively by a large section of the GPU buying public and on the other you worry that they might 'devalue their brand?? Did ATI 'devalue their brand' when they released the 9700 Pro? No, they gained an enormous amount of mindshare and had stellar sales.

I have no idea how many years ago was that?

It could devalue it further, by further reinforcing the public's perception, I thought the point I was making was obvious.

 

[Gerard]

I have no idea how many years ago was that?

20 years ago.

 

[Darujhistan]

20 years ago.

Not that relevant then.

 

[Jacky60]

I predict this, you won't be having your dreams come true with AMD giving away their cards so you can all buy NV cheaper. That's not how the real world works and would be terrible strategy on AMD's part.

I've always bought the best performing card for the price taking into account memory capacity and to a limited extent features. I'm pretty sure the majority of enthusiasts here are brand agnostic and would buy what performs best at a certain price point. It's happened in the CPU space and the same was historically true in the GPU space. AMDs CPUs gained a huge amnount of market share by offering as good performance for less for example the 3600X and 5600X vs then 8700 from Intel. It additionally made the CPU space far more competitive for us as consumers. If that's possible in the CPU space then the same goes to a large extent in the GPU space. Yes there are die hard fanbois that will never change but when reviewers and the youtubers that aren't simply shills tell their audience what's what the market responds as it did with CPUs which are now vastly more reasonably priced than they were when Intel was so dominant.

 

[humbug]

This was sent to me by a friend but he wont tell me where he got it, so, yeah......

 

[Darujhistan]

I've always bought the best performing card for the price taking into account memory capacity and to a limited extent features. I'm pretty sure the majority of enthusiasts here are brand agnostic and would buy what performs best at a certain price point. It's happened in the CPU space and the same was historically true in the GPU space. AMDs CPUs gained a huge amnount of market share by offering as good performance for less for example the 3600X and 5600X vs then 8700 from Intel. It additionally made the CPU space far more competitive for us as consumers. If that's possible in the CPU space then the same goes to a large extent in the GPU space. Yes there are die hard fanbois that will never change but when reviewers and the youtubers that aren't simply shills tell their audience what's what the market responds as it did with CPUs which are now vastll more resonably priced than they were when Intel was so dominant.

True but I doln't think slashing prices by 40% is the way to go. Remember who sets these price points in the first place, it is Nvidia as they are always first to launch.

 

[Jacky60]

This thread is sure moving at a huge speed now!

Since 5nm isn't capacity constrained, I really do hope AMD come in with a truly aggressive price.

The only real constraint is that while any fancy packing being used may make the cards cheaper to produce compared to monolithic dies, TSMC & their packaging may not have sufficient capacity for huge quantities.

And that's before we consider the margins-at-all-costs stockmarket who still don't seem to have got the memo that we are almost in a global recession. Plus they have forgotten that while margins are nice, profit is margin times volume:

1. 1,000 units at 65% margin
2. 1,000,000 units 35%

the 2nd could easily make far more profit.

You mean if they 'give them away' but, but, but, Investors, reasons, something or other big corporation etc