RDNA 3 rumours Q3/4 2022

[Chuk_Chuk]

Exactly this.

Anyone who says HDR is crap or not impressive etc. just hasn't seen a proper HDR display where you have self emissive pixels or FALD.



Tell that to the ones who develop the games.... it is them who have stated the time savings, not me, one scene with one type of lighting from 4a enhanced:



4a enhanced also sent some footage to DF/Alex to show their workflow of one area/level.

There are multiple other "game" developers who have stated how much time is required with raster to get good results with lighting etc. too.

Unless you have something that proves otherwise?

You never change do you Nexus. My issue is with your overexaggeration. I know it saves time but AFAIK lighting game levels isn't the critical path in video game development. I doubt any game has ever been delayed because the lighting was taking a long time. The workflow for the vast majority (I would say 80%) of staff who develop games will not change (be faster) because of a switch from raster to RT.

The idea that RT saves soo much time that project budget for AAA game will reduce is nonsense. Any money saved will be so small it could be mistaken for a rounding error in this era where budgets are in the 10's of millions.

Not my screenshots, taken from DF comparison:

When you play the game and see what your light sources are and the way the environment interacts, it feels entirely natural and far more atmospheric, so much that I finished it second time round.

I had forgotten about this video. The RT looks great in certain area but in some scenes were I'm wondering where they are getting the extra light sources from. I seem to remember someone calling out DF for this video because there is some issue with their RT images.

Also LOL. unlimited bounces
The only way you are getting true unlimited bounces is with a powerpoint presentation. I doubt they use more than 3 actual bounces for most of the light sources. The unlimited stuff is markerting guff.

 

[humbug]

Yes, not seen one but one of the few that can actually do proper HDR.

Which could very well be the problem i have, My screen doesn't actually do proper HDR.

 

[Nexus18]

Played through ME:EE for the second time round (first was on the normal edition) on the AW3423DW and yup, the difference is dramatic!

Such a good display to behold the wonders of RT eh

My jaw literally dropped in certain scenes like this:

You never change do you Nexus. My issue is with your overexaggeration. I know it saves time but AFAIK lighting game levels isn't the critical path in video game development. I doubt any game has ever been delayed because the lighting was taking a long time. The workflow for the vast majority (I would say 80%) of staff who develop games will not change (be faster) because of a switch from raster to RT.

The idea that RT saves soo much time that project budget for AAA game will reduce is nonsense. Any money saved will be so small it could be mistaken for a rounding error in this era where budgets are in the 10's of millions.



I had forgotten about this video. The RT looks great in certain area but in some scenes were I'm wondering where they are getting the extra light sources from. I seem to remember someone calling out DF for this video because there is some issue with their RT images.

Also LOL. unlimited bounces
The only way you are getting true unlimited bounces is with a powerpoint presentation. I doubt they use more than 3 actual bounces for most of the light sources. The unlimited stuff is markerting guff.

Again, see comments from the developers..... it is them who are stating the "massive" time savings, unless you have something showing otherwise?

This particular bit is a very good watch as it also shows how RT can aid in assisting with dynamic environment changes such as shooting out bulbs/light sources (obviously almost every raster game has this too but difference is, RT makes it easier/quicker here too):

Essentially there is far more to RT than just "lighting", "reflective puddles", "shadows", which I why keep saying, we are literally just seeing the tip of the iceberg with what is possible with RT.

As I have said before, I don't work in "games" development but I work in development across many projects and can first hand tell you, how important/critical budget is especially for smaller studios, you wouldn't believe what a day of work from even just 1 developer can cost especially if you want to get someone experienced then span this across the development of said project, depending on the game, you're talking about 2-6/7 years... Of course we won't see any time savings if developers are still having to implement raster too....

Would be interested to learn more about this "ray tracing issue"? As for the lighting/brightness increase, reason is most likely because you aren't seeing all the light sources in the area/scene, you're only seeing what's contained in the screenshot. That's why I said, in motion/playing for yourself is far more impressive than going by screenshots as you don't get a true feel/sense for the lighting etc.

 

[Blackjack Davy]

yeah my LG 38GN950 is just 12 zones over 38" so uniformity goes out the window with it enabled

Same, tried it once turned it off as it looks better without

 

[SS-89]

Yep HDR gaming on my G2 Oleds are so much better than non-hdr. It's a shame HDR on pc is so badly supported, it's night and day difference in colour and pop.

 

[DanF]

oh yeah, honestly some games I prefer on PS5 for oled TV with lower FPS etc
next monitor will be oled, just waiting for more options to come out

 

[Poneros]

Yep HDR gaming on my G2 Oleds are so much better than non-hdr. It's a shame HDR on pc is so badly supported, it's night and day difference in colour and pop.

You can use SpecialK in some cases, if you know about it. Works wonders for me in some of my favourites like XCOM 2.

 

[SmokSmog]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1583098868329226240

 

[Vince]

Really dislike this guy, total rambling idiot making rubbish up like MILD from leaks that others pulled out of thin air and always looks drunk or high on top of it. How and why does he get views ?

Drunk / High and unwashed... Not that I judge at all - I'll be honest I watched one of his vids once but like so many others it's just total waffle with no real grounding in the truth. The one in 10 times any of these people get it right its then "we leaked that first" for the next ten videos where they totally forget the 40 bits between that were totally wrong!

 

[Aegis]

Also LOL. unlimited bounces
The only way you are getting true unlimited bounces is with a powerpoint presentation. I doubt they use more than 3 actual bounces for most of the light sources. The unlimited stuff is markerting guff.

It's true - although the way it does it may seem odd - basically the GI solution is being constantly refined. It may start off quite rough but it will continue to refine itself with extra bounces where it's able to - it's a bit like an offline 3D renderer that gradually refines the noise out of a image but instead of de-noising it's continually enhancing the lighting. Of course, major changes to the BVH structure would require the GI solution to be rebuilt and for the process to start over again.

You can see this in some games where you might pick up an object and for a moment or two the outline of the object remains visible and the previously occluded area looks 'wrong' until the lighting solution updates and cleans up the error (Resident Evil Village does this a lot).

*Edit* Just for clarity, Resi Village uses RT Ambient Occlusion - Metro: Exodus does RT Global Illumination (much better).

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

It's true - although the way it does it may seem odd - basically the GI solution is being constantly refined. It may start off quite rough but it will continue to refine itself with extra bounces where it's able to - it's a bit like an offline 3D renderer that gradually refines the noise out of a image but instead of de-noising it's continually enhancing the lighting. Of course, major changes to the BVH structure would require the GI solution to be rebuilt and for the process to start over again.

You can see this in some games where you might pick up an object and for a moment or two the outline of the object remains visible and the previously occluded area looks 'wrong' until the lighting solution updates and cleans up the error (Resident Evil Village does this a lot).

*Edit* Just for clarity, Resi Village uses RT Ambient Occlusion - Metro: Exodus does RT Global Illumination (much better).

I’m pretty certain what you’ve described is not classified as light bounces, but sampling.

Bounces refers to the number of times a ray will bounce around a scene as it searches for a light source. Generally you get diminishing returns above double digit bounces (scene dependant)

 

[Nexus18]

4a article on metro ee goes over it very well:

IN-DEPTH TECHNICAL DIVE INTO METRO EXODUS PC ENHANCED EDITION — 4A Games

OUT NOW! We’re happy to let you know that the Metro Exodus PC Enhanced Edition is now released, bringing on board incredible improvements for Ray Tracing-capable GPUs, including Field of View options, DLSS 2.0, and much more. It is also a free entitlement to current owners – as it is so extensive

www.4a-games.com.mt

 

[Aegis]

4a article on metro ee goes over it very well:

IN-DEPTH TECHNICAL DIVE INTO METRO EXODUS PC ENHANCED EDITION — 4A Games

OUT NOW! We’re happy to let you know that the Metro Exodus PC Enhanced Edition is now released, bringing on board incredible improvements for Ray Tracing-capable GPUs, including Field of View options, DLSS 2.0, and much more. It is also a free entitlement to current owners – as it is so extensive

www.4a-games.com.mt

Thanks for the link!

@Chuk_Chuk - so this is the relevant part:

By having DDGI sample the DDGI term from the previous frame, we are able to accumulate the information it contains over time, simulating the effect of rays bouncing recursively around the environment. These additional rays diminish in importance the more they bounce, and the more they are absorbed and attenuated by various surfaces, but the effect still adds a small and noticeable lift to dark parts of the scene that light would not normally penetrate to with just a single bounce.

 

[B@Th*nG]

You can use SpecialK in some cases, if you know about it. Works wonders for me in some of my favourites like XCOM 2.

Ketamine's a hell of a drug

 

[Calin Banc]

You never change do you Nexus. My issue is with your overexaggeration. I know it saves time but AFAIK lighting game levels isn't the critical path in video game development. I doubt any game has ever been delayed because the lighting was taking a long time. The workflow for the vast majority (I would say 80%) of staff who develop games will not change (be faster) because of a switch from raster to RT.

The idea that RT saves soo much time that project budget for AAA game will reduce is nonsense. Any money saved will be so small it could be mistaken for a rounding error in this era where budgets are in the 10's of millions.

The devs said it saves them time and since time is money... or, at the very least, you can do other stuff as an artist on that saved time.

With that said, the big plus for gamers is that everything looks "right", as it should. Coupled with stuff like Nanite and it should enable even smaller teams to have great looking games.

 

[Kirby Wurm]

HDR is great but you need per pixel dimming or lots of zones. It's great for general content on my 6 year old Samsung which is only edge lit, and the blooming rarely bothers me unless it's in very dark scenes. For gaming my G7 Odyssey (again, edge lit) just isn't good enough, fine in bright games but the blooming is far more noticeable in darker scenes. On a good screen my brother's TV with FALD it looks superb. Not must have necessarily, but a nice boost to IQ.

The Windows implementation is awful though, a few games will enable it without needing to turn the display setting on but the majority require it, and the bother and washed out desktop irritate me.

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

The devs said it saves them time and since time is money... or, at the very least, you can do other stuff as an artist on that saved time.

With that said, the big plus for gamers is that everything looks "right", as it should. Coupled with stuff like Nanite and it should enable even smaller teams to have great looking games.

AAA games like big budget films have artists dedicated to a specific task, the guys doing the lighting are not the same people sculpting the models. They will find other ways to fill their time i guess.

Regarding your last statement. Most people don't even know what "right" is supposed to look like. See the Metro screenshots above and the comments. And no those technologies you've listed will not reduce the size of teams to create games. High quality assets are simply too time consuming for a small team, and neither nanite or RT does anything to make this process quicker.
There is a reason that games developed by small teams generally don't try to compete with AAA titles for the graphics crown.

Edit: Article about lighting artists

What does a Lighting Artist in games do?

How do you become a Lighting Artist for videogames? We ask an industry pro for an overview and tips...

intogames.org

 

[Haggisman]

You can use SpecialK in some cases, if you know about it. Works wonders for me in some of my favourites like XCOM 2.

I just started using SpecialK last week when I realised Stray doesn't have native HDR (why?! it's such a beautiful game!), and yeah, it makes a huge difference!

The Windows implementation is awful though, a few games will enable it without needing to turn the display setting on but the majority require it, and the bother and washed out desktop irritate me.

The "bother" of having to push win+alt+b before launching the game? If you count that as bother then I'd suggest sticking to consoles, as maybe PC gaming isn't for you

 

[glenimp617]

HDR in windows is a joke. You can only enable it when at 4k res, so if you want ultrawide you just have to hope the game supports a resolution not set in windows. Luckily horizon zero dawn does, which looks fantastic.

 

[Haggisman]

HDR in windows is a joke. You can only enable it when at 4k res, so if you want ultrawide you just have to hope the game supports a resolution not set in windows. Luckily horizon zero dawn does, which looks fantastic.

Lol, whut?