Refuse to buy a 1070 at current pricing

[JamesM]

You can't really compare previous releases as so much has changed since then. Taxes, exchange rates, etc..

Personally I don't see what the fuss is. Ignoring the 1080 for the moment, they have released a card (1070) that trades blows with the Titan and 980Ti for a price less than each of those cards cost new.

£399 vs £600 or so?

Your also getting newer tech in the process.

Yet everyone is jumping around and screaming how can they do this etc.

They have just reduced the prices of the 9** series of cards, if you can't afford the 1070 then don't buy it.

The 970 is a bit of a bargain at the current price!

 

[JTrickle]

2 more a bit later at £164.99 when OcUK did some special offer thing.

They were supplanted by the £570 within months. But those buying at release lost out as you can see from the link.

Also shed a tear for the 480 buyers who were forced to spend on 3rd party coolers.

 

[JABenedicic]

Zotax 980 Extreme - £479.99

3D Mark Ultra 4K: 4725 (Guru3D)

MIS 1080 Gaming X - £649.99

3D Mark Ultra 4K: 5445 (Guru3D)

Performance increase 980Ti > 1080: 14%
Price increase 980Ti > 1080: 35%

Kind of puts it into perspective. Not to mention the used market for £350ish on that card. Which would mean paying 85% more for 14% more performance.

Not sure it does, my MSI Gaming 980Ti was £559.99 here on 2nd September 2015.

Current one was £649.99, 15% price increase (give or take a couple quid).

 

[Rroff]

End of the day though its about the general perspective for me - its gone from being able to get a sizeable upgrade at that price point to something that is barely better than the previous generation and only a so so upgrade from what I currently have :|

 

[Rroff]

They were supplanted by the £570 within months. But those buying at release lost out as you can see from the link.

Also shed a tear for the 480 buyers who were forced to spend on 3rd party coolers.

If it wasn't for the limited VRAM I'd probably be still using the 470s today TBH - the pair in SLI with the overclock I was running (900MHz versus stock 607MHz) are only about 30% slower than the 780 GHz (in anything that works well with SLI).

 

[.Trooper.]

If you're on 1080p and you have less than a 970, the new AMD 480 looks like a good upgrade.

If you're on 1080p and you have a 970 or something around that performance, not much need to upgrade.

If you're on 1440p+ and you're on a 970 or lower, you may want to upgrade, or you may want to wait it out for the 1080Ti/Vega.

If you're on on 1080p+ and you have anything above a 970, you should really be waiting for Vega/1080Ti/beyond.

These cards are expensive. I bought one as I have no card and I'd personally prefer getting a newer gen card than a used 980Ti. If you're not in a situation in which you're building a new PC or you have no card you should (mostly) be waiting for price drops. Simples.

But also at the end of the day, people make their own money, they're free to spend/waste it however they choose

 

[JABenedicic]

End of the day though its about the general perspective for me - its gone from being able to get a sizeable upgrade at that price point to something that is barely better than the previous generation and only a so so upgrade from what I currently have :|

Which is a fair view point, but will only get more prevalent over time, Moore's Law will diminish eventually.

I was at a talk a couple years back when someone said the next big issue facing technology is the speed of light, which seemed odd, but its true, we will hit a ceiling at some point.

Excluding radical changes and inventions we are into the era of small gains. But as the British Olympic cycling team proved, a few 1% gains make all the difference.

 

[JamesM]

End of the day though its about the general perspective for me - its gone from being able to get a sizeable upgrade at that price point to something that is barely better than the previous generation and only a so so upgrade from what I currently have :|

What would you consider a sizeable upgrade?

 

[Cern]

You can't really compare previous releases as so much has changed since then. Taxes, exchange rates, etc..

Personally I don't see what the fuss is. Ignoring the 1080 for the moment, they have released a card (1070) that trades blows with the Titan and 980Ti for a price less than each of those cards cost new.

This is normal for a new generation of cards. Each generation the mid range usually has about the same performance as the previous generation's high end. If it didn't, they wouldn't be able to keep everyone upgrading so regularly.

Taxes and exchange rates (especially) do have an impact, but why is this mostly affecting Nvidia products then? Motherboard, CPU and most other component prices are stable. DDR4 prices are actually falling.

Supply and demand and a lack of competition are the factors mostly at work here.

 

[Rroff]

Supply and demand and a lack of competition are the factors mostly at work here.

There are some factors like that it seems nVidia had to go to some expense to get GDDR5X on the cards (1080) and 16nm is more expensive to nVidia than 28nm by some margin (like for like). But doesn't justify that prices alone.

 

[FoxEye]

You'd see people up in arms about that if they'd previously been relatively affordable.

With the 1070 they are basically trying to charge executive saloon car money for what realistically is a ford mondeo.

People have stopped expecting a generational performance increase for the same money.

I don't know why, but for a significant number of people now expect to pay more for more perf.

Ie "it's faster than a 970 so they should charge more for the 1070". That mindset is spreading.

 

[JamesM]

This is normal for a new generation of cards. Each generation the mid range usually has about the same performance as the previous generation's high end. If it didn't, they wouldn't be able to keep everyone upgrading so regularly.

Taxes and exchange rates (especially) do have an impact, but why is this mostly affecting Nvidia products then? Motherboard, CPU and most other component prices are stable. DDR4 prices are actually falling.

Supply and demand and a lack of competition are the factors mostly at work here.

Of course it is, if there is no supply then retailers will no doubt stick a bit on the price, it's their job to make money.

The fact that the FE should have an RRP of $399 and yet in the UK the FE cards are currently around $569 is crazy.

The 980ti was roughly $900 here in the UK when it was released.

So as it stands, a card that equals the performance but is priced $400 lower is still better than nothing. Yes it's still expensive.

From the AMD side of things, the Fury is about $700 in the UK at the moment. The 1070 also beats that.

AMD can keep their card prices fairly conservative because lets face it, their recent run of cards have simply been mostly re-brands with a few tweaks here and there.

 

[JABenedicic]

This is normal for a new generation of cards. Each generation the mid range usually has about the same performance as the previous generation's high end. If it didn't, they wouldn't be able to keep everyone upgrading so regularly.

Taxes and exchange rates (especially) do have an impact, but why is this mostly affecting Nvidia products then? Motherboard, CPU and most other component prices are stable. DDR4 prices are actually falling.

Supply and demand and a lack of competition are the factors mostly at work here.

Really? I remember some pretty similar discussions in the Broadwell-E threads when the prices came out.

Top end X99 boards are £450-550 currently, that's an increase as far as I remember.

Memory has always had some very strange fluctuations, same with HDD's back in the day and similar to what we get with SSD's. There are way too many things that affect production in those cases that has caused huge supply & demand issues over the years.

An example I made in another thread a couple weeks ago maybe was iPhone's (probably could count Samsung Galaxy's and similar as well), on average they must increase each year in excess of £50 per model, you get naff all for it most of the time. A few percent here and there.

It is a really common feature of buying technology, TV's cost more and more each year for relatively small gains, mobile phones, laptops, tablets, monitors, games consoles, games. It's not unique to NV.

I don't think its all just price gouging and taking the p either.

 

[Rroff]

People have stopped expecting a generational performance increase for the same money.

I don't know why, but for a significant number of people now expect to pay more for more perf.

Ie "it's faster than a 970 so they should charge more for the 1070". That mindset is spreading.

Yeah and then say a "1170" or whatever is faster than the 1070 so charge more again? and where does it stop (I guess once demand drops off :S).

 

[DarrenM343]

People have stopped expecting a generational performance increase for the same money.

I don't know why, but for a significant number of people now expect to pay more for more perf.

Ie "it's faster than a 970 so they should charge more for the 1070". That mindset is spreading.

But why not? Thing is, I don't see much good competition around at the moment and that's one of the key points here. Also I wonder if it's getting more expensive to extract the performance now - bigger R&D spends for smaller gains? Prices therefore go up too.

But the 1070 is as good as a TX in most scenario's (I think?) and at £400 vs £900+ and new technology vs old. Ignore the 70denominator and that's decent value?

 

[Cern]

Really? I remember some pretty similar discussions in the Broadwell-E threads when the prices came out.

Top end X99 boards are £450-550 currently, that's an increase as far as I remember.

Broadwell-E and the newer X99 boards released to accompany it are in the same situation as Nvidia 1070/1080. Prices at a premium to milk the early adopters, supply issues, lack of any effective competition in that segment of the market.

I'm sure all these prices will settle down over the coming months like they usually do. The EU vote and what it means for exchange rates (whatever the outcome) is a potential spanner in the works though.

 

[JamesM]

But why not? Thing is, I don't see much good competition around at the moment and that's one of the key points here. Also I wonder if it's getting more expensive to extract the performance now - bigger R&D spends for smaller gains? Prices therefore go up too.

But the 1070 is as good as a TX in most scenario's (I think?) and at £400 vs £900+ and new technology vs old. Ignore the 70denominator and that's decent value?

Nail. Head.

 

[~>Dg<~]

People have stopped expecting a generational performance increase for the same money.

I don't know why, but for a significant number of people now expect to pay more for more perf.

Ie "it's faster than a 970 so they should charge more for the 1070". That mindset is spreading.

that mindset is being spread by the people selling them. you are the customer ! the most important part of the pricing.by accepting the pricing must go up mindset you are letting them inflate the prices. dont except it you will get better pricing.

they make the items to sell. they need to sell. they cant afford for them not to sell.if only others would understand then we would get the decent prices more often.

 

[JABenedicic]

Of course it is, if there is no supply then retailers will no doubt stick a bit on the price, it's their job to make money.

The fact that the FE should have an RRP of $399 and yet in the UK the FE cards are currently around $569 is crazy.

The 980ti was roughly $900 here in the UK when it was released.

So as it stands, a card that equals the performance but is priced $400 lower is still better than nothing. Yes it's still expensive.

From the AMD side of things, the Fury is about $700 in the UK at the moment. The 1070 also beats that.

AMD can keep their card prices fairly conservative because lets face it, their recent run of cards have simply been mostly re-brands with a few tweaks here and there.

Are we able to do direct comparisons of USD and GBP pricing? Doesn't it vary state by state according to if there are additional sales taxes?

That's like comparing two EU countries prices where they use the same currency but have different taxes and rates.

 

[JanM]

Nvidia could have totally cleaned up but these prices put me right off and i'm sure many others too. I'm just gonna hold out for the next gen. Maybe pickup an old titan X for the 12gb memory.