Road Cycling

[Vandle]

The SL8 2024 Tarmac Expert was Rival only with an RRP of £5,500. The 2025 update includes an Ultegra model for £500 more.

I believe Vandle is saying that the previous versions of the Tarmac were Ultegra spec at the Expert level.

Succinctly put!

 

[Roady]

And this is always my problem. I generally have a bit more 'grunt' than the average person (let alone the average cyclist ) and this is how I break things...like my rear breaks while fitting the new wheels. (Used tool to separate pads, but apparently put too much grunt into this) Took it to my local(ish) shop who fixed it back up. Just needed bleeding I think, which I should really learn to do.

Also, today I moved the saddle forwards a little and tilted a little. Tbh, I hadn't realised the two screws that I thought just held the saddle in place, where how you adjust the angle! (If there was a dunce smiley, I would use it) Once angled back slightly, it then felt too far back, so now both adjusted.

Haha yeah, lets just say coming from a farming family background and doing a bunch of forestry I've always been fairly brutal to things. Learnt very early on the fine tolerances of aluminium screws - talking computers before cycling, but even then the early years of cycling I'd still shear bolts/screws. Still do occasionally - did a cleat bolt a few months back. Mudguard mount too! I've learnt/been so scared around carbon to always use a torque...

Bleeding is definitely a skill worth learning. With the right tools & a bit of experience can give you confidence to sort things others won't touch. Very likely to adjust a brake between wheel/rotor changes. Fundamentally once you get your head around the parts and how they work together (you're removing bubbles from a line containing fluid) it's a very 'easy' technology to get your head around. A guy I was riding the Wales 200km audax turned up and his rear brake was barely working. Could still (just) spin the wheel with the lever pulled back to the bars! Took me <10 mins to fix. Imagine doing ~2500m of descending without a rear brake - like he was prepared to do!

I found if I'm reseating an old tyre, i have to use co2. If it's a brand new tyre my Joe Blow has been good enough

Unrelated thread updated: House is now Sold STC. Was planning to reserve the new house today but the sales office is bloody closed. Have to wait until Monday now.

So now I feel homeless and Di2-less!

Great news on the house! Hope you've been able to make some progress with the planned one!

Agree with the Joe Blow, mine is superb, although I did get myself an inflator (and it's great) the few times I've had a tyre which wouldn't pop on with the JB the inflator still isn't the golden 'fix', probably working less than 50% of times. Usually a combination of seating and positioning the bead is just as much of a fix. Sometimes I've identified a part of a tyre which is proving awkward to mount, sometimes taking it off completely, then mounting that part near the value hole so it is seeing the most airflow/pressure.

CO2 does work, the blast of air being more than my inflator, but I've had just as many blow offs from it, or it failing to mount. An expensive way of doing things! If the JB and a 1 time with the inflator isn't enough to mount then the CO2 wouldn't - need to find the area of tyre which is refusing to budge - or some other hole in the system - to resolve. Interesting observation - Vittoria rubino tyres massively 'contract' when exposed to CO2 due to the freeze/cold. I buckled a wheel mounting them - the rim wall even getting bent, and it might have been the CO2 which did it.

I thought seriously about the SL8 Expert as you can pick that up for under £5k in some stores. My issue with it is that I don't want Rival Axs, it is objectively heavy for a groupset. I know I could eventually replace the parts, but this is at a cost. I'm also not sold on the nose of the SL8 but I suspect it looks less prominent on smaller frames. The SL7 is a great shout but it's a lower-tier groupset and I'd have to spend money on replacement wheels. I've managed to get the Soloist for £4,700 which comes with Ultegra Di2 and Reserve Carbon wheels which are (apparently) great The only aspect of the bike that needs an upgrade is the handlebars, but this is fit-dependent. It's not worth the RRP of £6,800 (but this can be said about most bikes these days) but I'm happy with the deal.

Also, it's quite nice to have a bike that not everyone else has (I say that, but quite a few people in Cardiff ride Cervelo)

4.7 for the Soloist sounds good for the setup. My SL7 came in at 5.5 but that was with Zipp FC404 (1400), Rapide bars (250) and Ultegra cranks (200) with 2-300 of other bits on there (tyre inserts, vales, sealant etc) and some workshop time. But also the SL7 Comp - so really 'low-middle' of the range (some research - same frame as the Pro, just marginally heavier paint!)

Who sells Cervelo around Cardiff? Probably too late now but always worth checking around somewhere which stocks/builds/sells - especially this time of year (autumn) when next years models are generally released and they're trying to shift stocks. Or even some people trading in... I know someone who changes his Emonda every year and he probably only does 2-3000 miles a year.

my mate is looking to upgrade from SL7 Sworks to SL8 and is trying to sell his frame with Darimo Seatpost.

Beautiful colour. Any idea roughly how much he's looking to shift it for? Only pondering how much a 2-3 year old S-Works frame goes for.

When comparing geometry I have shorter legs so finding frames that I can stand over with both feet seem to be a challenge and always need to size down based on a manufactures recommendation based on my height of 165cm and an inseam of 70cm

If standing over is a requirement, Giant TCR has generally a bit lower or sloped toptube than some others... Cannondale always a bit more upright as they like the triangular traditional shapes more than some others.

But quite a hard thing to know the differences in those smaller sizes between brands. Most reviews tend to be on 56cm frames. Maybe look around some more far-east orientated brands you might find some smaller size details and geometries with a lower toptube option.

I'm a shorter leg & 172cm tall riding a 54cm (height says I should ride a 52 but fit says no) and can't really say I've had any issue with stand over, but I wouldn't stand sat on the saddle either...

**EDIT** Oh, no it's still here - https://www.specialized.com/gb/en/tarmac-sl8-pro-ultegra-di2/p/4274935?color=5430657-4274935

Hmm, I think I quite like it in white!

Yeah they do look very 'crisp' in white!

What I meant was the older Experts were Ultegra. The SL8 is now Sram rival which technically is a downgrade in spec, without the reduction in price. Hence the similar priced Madone looks like a better buy. However not entirely convinced that the downgrade would translate to any big real world differences for us mortals.

Yup pretty much it. Only the last couple of years seeing SRAM more and more - but thinking specifically Specialized is due to shipping/imports/agreements they're using SRAM more and more.

 

[bastic]

Beautiful colour. Any idea roughly how much he's looking to shift it for? Only pondering how much a 2-3 year old S-Works frame goes for.

he wants around £2.8k or so with Darimo seat post - or without..can't remember...can ask if you are intrested

his is immaculate

 

[Shoeyuk]

@Roady I was always under the impression if you couldn't stand over the top tube without any space between the tube and your nuts it was too big. Sat on the saddle i can tip toes, but ive never as you said stood sitting on the saddle. Though to be honnest i've never really stand over the top tube with both feet on the ground, i always seem to unclip the left foot nad put that down when i stop at lights/junctions.

 

[Roady]

he wants around £2.8k or so with Darimo seat post - or without..can't remember...can ask if you are intrested

his is immaculate

He should sell it for that considering how good it looks, but do think he'll get lots of lower offers... Not interested in buying, just interested in what the amount was!

@Roady I was always under the impression if you couldn't stand over the top tube without any space between the tube and your nuts it was too big. Sat on the saddle i can tip toes, but ive never as you said stood sitting on the saddle. Though to be honnest i've never really stand over the top tube with both feet on the ground, i always seem to unclip the left foot nad put that down when i stop at lights/junctions.

Maybe, but I wouldn't use that to really judge the exact size of frame. It's a good starting point, but as mentioned - different brands will have slightly different geometries - the top tube height can vary massively between brands showing the same size - as it's one of the few things which doesn't exactly impact the rider 'size'.

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-sizing.html - good blurb about standover being used traditionally... Now into the modern age... https://www.evanscycles.com/help/bike-sizing-road

Interesting chart here showing inseams alongside heights & frame sizes: https://www.cyclistshub.com/bike-size-chart/#how-to-measure-the-inseam-length

From your height (165cm) on most manufacturers you'll be on a 'Small' (with sizes between 49-53cm). Are you sure your inseam is 70cm? It sounds quite short for 165. Inseam for cycling is generally measured INCLUDING the foot - whereas for clothing (trousers) you tend to size to ankle. Stack and Reach are most important for fit.

Inseam is really the measure from bottom of crank to saddle - both of which are easily adjusted - shorter legs for your height then reduce crank length along with reducing saddle height (pedalling angles/ankle rotation comes important). Neither of those are exactly related to frame size and can be adjusted, with saddle height being one of the few things on a bike you can massively change... So this is where reach (basically the top tube length) then comes into more correctly/accurately sizing the frame.

▷Bike Size Chart: How to Choose the Bike that Fits! (GUIDE)

Choose the right bike size with the help of one of these methods. ✅

www.cyclistshub.com

 

[Shoeyuk]

@Roady i have previously measured using the same method that was in the link. I have just had another stab at it and measured 72cm with two different tape measures. The one i used last time must be off or i bent my knees or something. I have a bike fit done on the domane a few months which is a 47cm frame and they just adjusted the saddle height slightly and cleat position as i was there or there abouts with how i had it set up. But they changed out the 70mm stem for an 80mm and this seems to be working out well.

Looking at bikeinsights.com comparing my domane to a sl8 looks like the 44cm frame is the closest to what i curently have.

 

[Roady]

@Roady i have previously measured using the same method that was in the link. I have just had another stab at it and measured 72cm with two different tape measures. The one i used last time must be off or i bent my knees or something. I have a bike fit done on the domane a few months which is a 47cm frame and they just adjusted the saddle height slightly and cleat position as i was there or there abouts with how i had it set up. But they changed out the 70mm stem for an 80mm and this seems to be working out well.

Looking at bikeinsights.com comparing my domane to a sl8 looks like the 44cm frame is the closest to what i curently have.

Haha yes, definitely use your fit from a fitter rather than just measuring from swinging your leg over - or listening to some guy on a forum!

Quite good to see comparing your 47cm SL5 Domane (went with 2021 to get the size) to a 44cm SL8 as I would expect Trek and Specialized sizings to be more similar (being both American). So I'm urprised the 47cm and the 44cm are as close as they are (only 2mm reach difference) but stack is obviously nearly 3cm different. The SL8 being lower at the front, but higher at the rear of the toptube (shows the big difference in slopes between designs like I was talking about!)

Compare: 2021 Trek Bikes Domane SL 5 47 cm vs 2023 Specialized Bicycles Tarmac SL8 Pro 44

Find your ideal bike using bike-on-bike geometry comparisons with diagrams, powerful search tools, and category analysis.

bikeinsights.com

So really would say it looks like you can replicate what you have - as a starting point providing you're not at some extremes of fit on the Domane. The 44cm Tarmac looks like providing you're not at your absolute max of seatpost inserted on the Domane, the seatpost height difference you can cope with on the Tarmac. The stack height is going to drop your position/front end quite a bit (which is great - makes you aero). You can obviously mitigate some of that easily with bars/shifter position if needed. Maybe a shorter stem... Short cranks. Below 170mm (probably 165 to still be within 'normal' sizing)?!

 

[Shoeyuk]

Haha yes, definitely use your fit from a fitter rather than just measuring from swinging your leg over - or listening to some guy on a forum!

Quite good to see comparing your 47cm SL5 Domane (went with 2021 to get the size) to a 44cm SL8 as I would expect Trek and Specialized sizings to be more similar (being both American). So I'm urprised the 47cm and the 44cm are as close as they are (only 2mm reach difference) but stack is obviously nearly 3cm different. The SL8 being lower at the front, but higher at the rear of the toptube (shows the big difference in slopes between designs like I was talking about!)

Compare: 2021 Trek Bikes Domane SL 5 47 cm vs 2023 Specialized Bicycles Tarmac SL8 Pro 44

Find your ideal bike using bike-on-bike geometry comparisons with diagrams, powerful search tools, and category analysis.

bikeinsights.com

So really would say it looks like you can replicate what you have - as a starting point providing you're not at some extremes of fit on the Domane. The 44cm Tarmac looks like providing you're not at your absolute max of seatpost inserted on the Domane, the seatpost height difference you can cope with on the Tarmac. The stack height is going to drop your position/front end quite a bit (which is great - makes you aero). You can obviously mitigate some of that easily with bars/shifter position if needed. Maybe a shorter stem... Short cranks. Below 170mm (probably 165 to still be within 'normal' sizing)?!

The seat post is about 3/4 extended so there is some more room to play with, if I go to my fitter he’d try to sell me a madone. I’d really want to get the sl8 pro but finances can’t quite make it at the moment so i don’t know that if i went for an expert if id regret not holding off for a few of months.

 

[Roady]

I really dug into the SL6 and SL7 to understand the differences, you'd have to confirm the SL8, but the way the trend is going it's all the finishing kit which are the only differences...

SL6 had 3 different carbon frames - bottom, mid & S-works. SL7 is only 2 different carbon frames - everything else & S-works. I think SL8 is the same.

It is only the paint and finishing kit on my SL7 Comp which make it different to the SL7 Pro. The Expert is between them, has exactly the same frame weight as the Comp. A few different places mark the paint difference as 50g or 100g between Pro to the others (the S-Works frame with it's different carbon and paint is another 120g lower than the Pro - so my Comp is 170-220g heavier than the S-Works). That's it. So with that paint, the alloy bars & stem, along with wheels & groupset make up the price difference between the £4500 Comp and the £6500-8000 Pro. With the SL8 you've got the Expert at £5.5/6k and Pro at £8.25k - expert has alloy bars & wheels (Roval C38) with the Pro having carbon Rapide bars & carbon wheels (Rapide CLII)

Basically if you price up an Expert, with a wheel, groupset (really no need with di2 12s) and bar upgrade you'll have the same bike for around a grand less (if you lose 100g off somewhere else - 1 less cookie). I upgraded wheels, bars on mine (left it on alloy stem) and fitted Ultegra cranks. Need to weigh it, but will be 8kg. Basically spending £5.5 rather than 8.25 is a lot easier & gives you a darn good bike, then upgrade as you go to spread the cost if needed. The 12s Di2 is on par to my 11s Di2 Ultegra. The derailleurs 'feel' a bit heavier in the hand, while looking more chunky, but operationally they're on par - or better than the 11s - so don't think I'll be upgrading them until they need changing!

 

[Liefrich]

I really dug into the SL6 and SL7 to understand the differences, you'd have to confirm the SL8, but the way the trend is going it's all the finishing kit which are the only differences...

SL6 had 3 different carbon frames - bottom, mid & S-works. SL7 is only 2 different carbon frames - everything else & S-works. I think SL8 is the same.

It is only the paint and finishing kit on my SL7 Comp which make it different to the SL7 Pro. The Expert is between them, has exactly the same frame weight as the Comp. A few different places mark the paint difference as 50g or 100g between Pro to the others. That's it. So with that paint, the alloy bars & stem, along with wheels & groupset make up the price difference between the £4500 Comp and the £6500-8000 Pro. With the SL8 you've got the Expert at £5.5/6k and Pro at £8.25k - expert has alloy bars & wheels (Roval C38) with the Pro having carbon Rapide bars & carbon wheels (Rapide CLII)

Basically if you price up an Expert, with a wheel, groupset (really no need with di2 12s) and bar upgrade you'll have the same bike for around a grand less (if you lose 100g off somewhere else - 1 less cookie). I upgraded wheels, bars on mine (left it on alloy stem) and fitted Ultegra cranks. Need to weigh it, but will be 8kg. Basically spending £5.5 rather than 8.25 is a lot easier & gives you a darn good bike, then upgrade as you go to spread the cost if needed. The 12s Di2 is on par to my 11s Di2 Ultegra. The derailleurs 'feel' a bit heavier in the hand, while looking more chunky, but operationally they're on par - or better than the 11s - so don't think I'll be upgrading them until they need changing!

You've done a cracking job with your bike. The £8,250 for the SL8 Pro is not great 'value', I guess they can get away with it because (a) it's legitimately a great bike and (b) there is significant demand for the bike.

I was very tempted to pick up the SL8 Expert in the sale. I think it was (and still is) available for £4,500. However, Sram Rival put me off. This is probably a silly bias I have as eventually, if I was that concerned, I could have upgraded to Force/Red, but I didn't fancy going into the SRAM ecosystem. I'm also a rubbish mechanic so would have had to pay to change.

 

[bastic]

He should sell it for that considering how good it looks, but do think he'll get lots of lower offers... Not interested in buying, just interested in what the amount was!

it's sold

he got his sl8 sworks frame delivered today i know which onehe went for, but want to see his pics

he bought the full ceramic kit from gtechniq and applied it...so i got to wait to see it LOL

Darimo seatpost of course ordered ... ceramicspeed headset or something...and overfast axles bet he's praying his wife wont see how much those alone were hahah

 

[Roady]

I’d really want to get the sl8 pro but finances can’t quite make it at the moment so i don’t know that if i went for an expert if id regret not holding off for a few of months.

See info below - but really price up what the Pro brings you over the Expert, especially if finances are key. In my opinion it's very little if you don't consider wheels...

Articles I did a lot of reading on and even now still find great -

Here's why I won't be upgrading to the Specialized Tarmac SL8

Is Specialized's new "one bike to rule them all" a significant upgrade over its predecessor, the Tarmac SL7? I've been putting the miles in on both and have just about made up my mind

road.cc

Specialized Tarmac SL7 Pro 2022 Review – What It Is Really Like

I had always dreamed of owning a Specialized S-Works Tarmac, and like many people, this dream became further and further away the more expensive the bike became. The launch of the SL7 Specialized S…

dadonabike.com

Specialized Tarmac SL8 in-depth review - One bike that can do it all

Wave goodbye to specific aero or lightweight models, Specialized has combined the best aspects of the Venge and Aethos with the Tarmac to make the SL8 the fastest yet

www.rouleur.cc

You've done a cracking job with your bike.

Naaaah, just made sure I did what I could to 'get my moneys worth' - which I'll always do! Getting the original SL7 at the bargain price (around 3400) due to the flash sale on stocks of them while the SL8 was still new and hadn't seen any price drops. Did quite a lot of reading to be sure I didn't need (or couldn't justify) the price difference to go SL8, even without the aesthetics (just used that as another excuse to myself). I'd previously counted out of getting the SL6 due to the lack of front cable integration (but will admit I came close several times) - there where just bikes very similar (TCR) or with the integration (Ultimate) for less money. Being a Specialized fanboy gave me the patience required to wait...!

Spending £2000+ for lighter paint & modern Ultegra over modern 105 is foolish, there's just very little gain. It's the wheels and the finishing kit which are where you get any real benefit. Although I put £1400 Zipp FC404 and the Roval Rapide £252 bars on mine (along with paying the shop to fit them) there are cheaper and fairly similar alternatives.

Weather is actually looking good for tomorrow... Might be the last ride of 2024 for it (but it has only done 3 lol)!

it's sold

he got his sl8 sworks frame delivered today i know which onehe went for, but want to see his pics

he bought the full ceramic kit from gtechniq and applied it...so i got to wait to see it LOL

Darimo seatpost of course ordered ... ceramicspeed headset or something...and overfast axles bet he's praying his wife wont see how much those alone were hahah

Haha, Cabbies around you earn far too much!

https://www.bespokecycling.com/shop/products/overfast-carbon-thru-axles hahah ahhaha hah hah hah hah. What a waste of money! Alloy thru axles on my SL7 weigh nothing compared to the older ones with levers on my 2016 Diverge. Crazy what people will spend money on.

I'm surprised he's riding an S-Works and not a Pinarello on Lightweights. Also that he's not spent €10900 on a SWI. Send that video to him!

 

[AndyCr15]

Did Rocacorba for the 3rd time today. I love/hate live segments. Within the first mile (6.2 mile climb) 2 years ago me had put 50 seconds into today me. "Well tbh, I thought my time 2 years ago was pretty good, so it's fine. Let 2 years ago me go..." I told myself.

Over the next 4 miles I gradually reeled 2 years ago me back in and with 1.5 miles left I was at the same time. I pulled it out to a 20 seconds lead, but then the last mile of Rocacorba is a bit of a bugger and I suddenly remembered 2 years ago I really pushed for the last mile. I look down and 2 years ago me was back with 11s. "Hell no, you're not having me now stupid 2 years ago me!" My god it was a tough finish, but beat 2 years ago me by 13 seconds.

If normally the human body is 60% water. I musta been down to 40% by the top @Martynt74 that headband was well out of its depth.

 

[bastic]

Haha, Cabbies around you earn far too much!

https://www.bespokecycling.com/shop/products/overfast-carbon-thru-axles hahah ahhaha hah hah hah hah. What a waste of money! Alloy thru axles on my SL7 weigh nothing compared to the older ones with levers on my 2016 Diverge. Crazy what people will spend money on.

I'm surprised he's riding an S-Works and not a Pinarello on Lightweights. Also that he's not spent €10900 on a SWI. Send that video to him!

haha he even got them from Bespoke LOL ..nice bikes there...10mins away from me

he was looking on Lightweights today haha

he doesnt like Pinio..and cheaper to change to same frame manufacturer for BBs and cranks after....

Did Rocacorba for the 3rd time today. I love/hate live segments. Within the first mile (6.2 mile climb) 2 years ago me had put 50 seconds into today me. "Well tbh, I thought my time 2 years ago was pretty good, so it's fine. Let 2 years ago me go..." I told myself.

Over the next 4 miles I gradually reeled 2 years ago me back in and with 1.5 miles left I was at the same time. I pulled it out to a 20 seconds lead, but then the last mile of Rocacorba is a bit of a bugger and I suddenly remembered 2 years ago I really pushed for the last mile. I look down and 2 years ago me was back with 11s. "Hell no, you're not having me now stupid 2 years ago me!" My god it was a tough finish, but beat 2 years ago me by 13 seconds.

If normally the human body is 60% water. I musta been down to 40% by the top @Martynt74 that headband was well out of its depth.

Girona again ? Nice

Did Roca twice, not sure i will ever again haha
what was your time ?
bet miles better than mine
my 1st attempt last year was 2,5h or so...if not closer to 3...
this years tad better EDIT : 57.41 this year ..less weight and more training

 

[AndyCr15]

what was your time ?
bet miles better than mine

No, not hugely different. I guess it depends exactly which segment you use, but around 52 minutes for me.

 

[bastic]

No, not hugely different. I guess it depends exactly which segment you use, but around 52 minutes for me.

great time, Alt de Rocacorba.

hope you have better weather than we did LOL

we did roca soaked in fog

 

[Martynt74]

That new AI feature on Strava is pretty cool if anyone’s not seen it.

 

[AndyCr15]

That new AI feature on Strava is pretty cool if anyone’s not seen it.

Is this sarcastic? Hard to tell.

hope you have better weather than we did LOL

I've had to go and buy some Factor 50 if that's an indication.

Today's been fun, up Els Angels and Masnou (labelled 'The Wall' today). I ride with Group 2, but with a couple of miles to go up Els Angels I found myself on the wheel of two of the Group 1 riders. Clung to their wheel and then outsprinted them at the top (288W for 31 mins, then dropped 960W for 15 seconds at the end of that. I've done better power for 15s before, but not after a Cat 2 PB climb )

 

[Martynt74]

It wasn’t. I actually thought it was quite cool.
It seemed relevant for me on todays ride so unsure how it is otherwise.

 

[AndyCr15]

Fair enough. it just seems to comment on obvious things. The only AI I've seen hasn't worked. Take this as an example that a club rider posted a couple of days ago -

Commenting on being above or below recent averages shouldn't need AI. Nor the weather. It comments on his recent 'training', but this guy doesn't do training, he just rides a lot. (I mean, you could call that training, but I would have hoped AI would be a little more intellegent) Then... he rode to a place called Emily's, so probably named his ride 'Ride to Emily's' or something like that... why does the AI think his name is Emily?!