RTX 4070 12GB, is it Worth it?

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Even a Xbox series s is more powerful lol.

So a 250 quid machine is actually better then the average gaming PC lol.

Let that sink in, hope people realize why devs don't care about the PC version when it comes to modern releases

Yep, on a 3070ti currently and once I upgrade to a AV1 capable gpu, I consider this to be the last gpu upgrade in the longest of time in my income era.

Saying that, even davinchi resolve performs better on a m series Mac and a Mac mini is cheaper then a single gpu from both vendors

PCMR does not get that first point. In my case I know enough people with reasonable gaming PCs,but their console is definitely faster in pure hardware. The PC gets used for MOBAs,Indie games and older PC games.

The stagnation in mainstream hardware is noticeable to anyone who generally buys mainstream hardware(like most people I know). People are increasingly getting surprised at how little dGPU performance has increased over a few years especially as the prices have gone up,so end up just keeping their older hardware for longer and longer. A number are ditching their desktops for laptops,hence why there are as many laptop RTX3060 dGPUs as the desktop ones.

Did I? Last time I checked over 200K 4090's sold and that figure was from months ago. As I said, people will do what they want to do with their money.

I have said it many times. Nvidia need to go back to what they did with the 3000 series. Charge people like me £600-£700 for 3080 class performance and sell your buddy gpuzilla 3090 for more than double that for 15% extra performance

People that don't want to pay halo card moneys don't want to spend silly moneys as Nvidia is finding out with a lack of sales which is great to see.

But anyway, we have been through all that before. Nit sure what it had to do with my reply to Nexus which you quoted

He implied Nvidia could charge more(basically what they are doing now) and is that working now? Did it work with the AMD guys saying Zen3 price rises were fine,and acceptable and so was Zen4 pricing(some argued against me) because Intel was worse. Oh wait! It isn't for either company.

Plus we all know those marketing figures how they get massaged. Either quote one retailer in a region,or conflate shipped cards with purchased cards. Plus we don't know the context globally compared to previous launches.

Despite those loads of RTX4090s apparently sold at launch in September,Nvidia consumer graphics revenue plunged 46% last quarter(it included the RTX4090 launch). Nvidia inventory doubled to $5.2 billlion. AMD despite having awful sales share,managed to mostly match Nvidia dGPU sales on ALL consumer products(even those lower end cards) with mostly console revenue.

In the US they are already testing the waters with RTX4090 price cuts.





PCMR on here should realise after Nvidia tried the same move with Turing V1,and their excessive Pascal stock,within a year they had to relaunch the whole range. People on here were spinning Turing V1 pricing was OK because of RT,DLSS,etc. I laughed when Nvidia just cannibalised half the old range with two Super releases.

But as usual PCMR needs to keep selling to itself everything is working as fine. It's a sellers market after all,right?

40% more peformance for 60% more money,the bargainous RTX4070!

Have been thoroughly enjoying RT for the past 3 years now, 3080 grunt and dlss has made it possible, can't say the same for rdna 2 though.....

I know because you spend half your time trying to post screenshots in those games,and sometimes I can't even tell the difference. Plus a lot of RTX3080 guys on here,who said 10GB would be enough for years,ended up upgrading to an RTX4000 series dGPU,because of the excuse of better RT and DLSS3. Also,just happened to have more VRAM too,but that surely wasn't the reason right? Right? Riiiiiiiiiiiight?

 

[Nexus18]

I know because you spend half your time trying to post screenshots in those games,and sometimes I can't even tell the difference. Plus a lot of RTX3080 guys on here,who said 10GB would be enough for years,ended up upgrading to an RTX4000 series dGPU,because of the excuse of better RT and DLSS3. Also,just happened to have more VRAM too,but that surely wasn't the reason right? Right? Riiiiiiiiiiiight?

Sure the majority of 3090 owner have upgraded to a 4090, so much for that extra vram providing longevity, extra £750+ well spent

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Sure the majority of 3090 owner have upgraded to a 4090, so much for that vram providing longevity, money well spent

These were the RTX3080 owners who argued 10GB would be fine for years. I suppose "years" meant 1.5~2 then!

 

[melmac]

Half the forum is

You know why I am on Humbug's ignore list? Because he was going around posting nonsense about Intel going broke and getting a massive bailout from the US government. He posted this loads of times. Of course it wasn't true. There was no bailout. It was the Chips Act, something introduced by the US government to try and reduce dependency on Taiwan. Europe are doing something similar.

He didn't like been corrected, he didn't reply and I am guessing that's when he added me to his ignore list. You have to have fact check everything Humbug posts. He has a massive problem with comprehension and tends to see what he wants to see when he looks at videos and websites. You know this, remember before the Polaris 480 launch? He was showing charts and videos etc that the 480 would be faster than the 980Ti. But, none of the charts or videos showed anything that like what he claimed. He argued against everyone on the forum that he was right. Gibbo had to finally come in and tell him that it wasn't near 980TI performance.

Because he was right about AMD repeating screwing up launches doing dumbarse things,something I have moaned about for years. He also missed some more egregious screwups during that period,which I almost felt like chiming in on. Even Zen1 had a disastrous launch when it came to the platform.

AMD has the ability to clutch defeat from the jaws of victory.

You are right. I left things out. But my post was long enough as it was. And I was trying to keep the topic to GPUs. The 1st Gen Ryzen launch been an obvious example of AMD not doing it right. There are other examples from the GPU side as well. I think I said enough to get my point across. AMD aren't where they are on the GPU side of things because of "reasons" They are where they are because exactly what you said. They keeping messing up.

As for Humbug's latest comments about AMD having the best engineers? Don't think that really needs a reply.

You should watch that Video on MILD, the interview with Daniel Nenni. It's very good. As you are an intelligent person, you will easily see where Humbug has twisted the info to make AMD sound better than they are. As well as the flat out lie about Nvidia and Samsung.

 

[TNA]

He implied Nvidia could charge more

Correction. He implied they can charge more than AMD, that is very different than what you are saying. And guess what? He is right

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Correction. He implied they can charge more than AMD, that is very different than what you are saying. And guess what? He is right

Not really he said they could charge more in a thread about the RTX4070. Hence defending the RTX4070 pricing by proxy.

That is working really well right? How is a 46% YoY decrease in dGPU revenues after that amazing launch of 100s of 1000s of apparently sold RTX4090 make that so?

Or the fact Nvidia wallops AMD in OEM sales - just see how few AMD dGPUs are in laptops,etc.

It seems Nvidia saying they are the premium brand is working really,really well. AMD with peasant console revenue nearly matched them last quarter.

But Ai WiLl CoMe To ThE rEsCuE for consumer sales?

 

[Nexus18]

These were the RTX3080 owners who argued 10GB would be fine for years.

And upgrading to them gpus has absolutely nothing to do with how powerful the 4090/4080 is in comparison nor having FG, all just because of vram.... ok.... Don't worry though, they will also be upgrading to a 50xx gpu as soon as those are out

But in all seriousness, I imagine the majority of 3080 owners are still holding on to it, especially if not gaming at 4k, you'll only have the vocal ones advertising it on here, that and iirc, quite a few people were able to pick up 4080s for £800 from the b grade section on ocuk not long ago.

You know why I am on Humbug's ignore list? Because he was going around posting nonsense about Intel going broke and getting a massive bailout from the US government. He posted this loads of times. Of course it wasn't true. There was no bailout. It was the Chips Act, something introduced by the US government to try and reduce dependency on Taiwan. Europe are doing something similar.

He didn't like been corrected, he didn't reply and I am guessing that's when he added me to his ignore list. You have to have fact check everything Humbug posts. He has a massive problem with comprehension and tends to see what he wants to see when he looks at videos and websites. You know this, remember before the Polaris 480 launch? He was showing charts and videos etc that the 480 would be faster than the 980Ti. But, none of the charts or videos showed anything that like what he claimed. He argued against everyone on the forum that he was right. Gibbo had to finally come in and tell him that it wasn't near 980TI performance.



You are right. I left things out. But my post was long enough as it was. And I was trying to keep the topic to GPUs. The 1st Gen Ryzen launch been an obvious example of AMD not doing it right. There are other examples from the GPU side as well. I think I said enough to get my point across. AMD aren't where they are on the GPU side of things because of "reasons" They are where they are because exactly what you said. They keeping messing up.

As for Humbug's latest comments about AMD having the best engineers? Don't think that really needs a reply.

You should watch that Video on MILD, the interview with Daniel Nenni. It's very good. As you are an intelligent person, you will easily see where Humbug has twisted the info to make AMD sound better than they are. As well as the flat out lie about Nvidia and Samsung.

Standard for humbug, didn't like it when I pointed out he had shares in amd (from a long time ago, no idea about now) and even linked to his very own post where he stated this (tbf, think he also stated he had shares in intel too, guessing not now though ).... fact when he stopped updating the benchmark thread for cpus when intel took over says it all imo

 

[Raelgun]

Didn't you know, people rather keep on buying new hardware more often now just to be able to brute force/avoid issues though.... and even then, that doesn't work well nowadays so software methods are now required to overcome those hurdles too

Agree though, games aren't looking any better these days for the hardware requirements.

Mean I'm not against RT, but on PC I need a good game first that has it ( that's New and I haven't played already)

 

[TNA]

You know why I am on Humbug's ignore list? Because he was going around posting nonsense about Intel going broke and getting a massive bailout from the US government. He posted this loads of times. Of course it wasn't true. There was no bailout. It was the Chips Act, something introduced by the US government to try and reduce dependency on Taiwan. Europe are doing something similar.

He didn't like been corrected, he didn't reply and I am guessing that's when he added me to his ignore list. You have to have fact check everything Humbug posts. He has a massive problem with comprehension and tends to see what he wants to see when he looks at videos and websites. You know this, remember before the Polaris 480 launch? He was showing charts and videos etc that the 480 would be faster than the 980Ti. But, none of the charts or videos showed anything that like what he claimed. He argued against everyone on the forum that he was right. Gibbo had to finally come in and tell him that it wasn't near 980TI performance.

Don't worry mate. I am on his ignore list also for similar reasons

I recall having a debate and a disagreement with you in the past, but I did not block you. We all can't agree on everything and just because we do not agree on a particular topic that does not suddenly make you a bad person or your posts useless.

Gpuerrila could learn a thing or two about that. He ignores me because I happened to agree with Nexus (his arch enemy on here ) on the 10gb vram issue. I continued to try and speak with him, but eventually got the message. How petty.

I ain't going to blindly agree with everything someone says. I have my own brain and if he does not like it then that's his problem

I agree with a lot of your posts, especially the one to humbug, that was epic

 

[TNA]

Not really he said they could charge more in a thread about the RTX4070. Hence defending the RTX4070 pricing by proxy.

That is working really well right? How is a 46% YoY decrease in dGPU revenues after that amazing launch of 100s of 1000s of apparently sold RTX4090 make that so?

Or the fact Nvidia wallops AMD in OEM sales - just see how few AMD dGPUs are in laptops,etc.

It seems Nvidia saying they are the premium brand is working really,really well. AMD with peasant console revenue nearly matched them last quarter.

But Ai WiLl CoMe To ThE rEsCuE for consumer sales?

Did you ask him if that is what he meant or just assumed because he now likes Nvidia GPUs and RT therefore that is what he must mean?

I ain't defending him, for all I know maybe he did mean that. But that's not how it read to me. Not the post I quoted anyway.

 

[gpuerrilla]

These were the RTX3080 owners who argued 10GB would be fine for years. I suppose "years" meant 1.5~2 then!

There were some that went to the 12GB Ti within 2 years that argued 10 was fine..!

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

You are right. I left things out. But my post was long enough as it was. And I was trying to keep the topic to GPUs. The 1st Gen Ryzen launch been an obvious example of AMD not doing it right. There are other examples from the GPU side as well. I think I said enough to get my point across. AMD aren't where they are on the GPU side of things because of "reasons" They are where they are because exactly what you said. They keeping messing up.

As for Humbug's latest comments about AMD having the best engineers? Don't think that really needs a reply.

You should watch that Video on MILD, the interview with Daniel Nenni. It's very good. As you are an intelligent person, you will easily see where Humbug has twisted the info to make AMD sound better than they are. As well as the flat out lie about Nvidia and Samsung.

I did. It was quite interesting on how he said most of the costs of these companies are overestimated by the internet. Which is not surprising if you stand back and think about how much they charge to OEMs for the same products we buy.

AMD has good engineers,considering they have about the same headcount as Nvidia,but have to try and compete with both Intel and Nvidia,with less R and D spend in total. So they need to be on their A game with these companies. But at the same time some of the final implementation decisions,positioning,etc makes me really wonder WTF is happening. It could be a lack of resources,ie,they are spread thinly but honestly just delay the products then. Also do some proper focus testing. First impression always count.

They spend all that time,money and effort and end up underselling their products just for a lack of polish,sometimes weird positioning,to launch things a month or two earlier. It costs them more money longer term just to hit arbitrary dates.

Did you ask him if that is what he meant or just assumed because he now likes Nvidia GPUs and RT therefore that is what he must mean?

I ain't defending him, for all I know maybe he did mean that. But that's not how it read to me. Not the post I quoted anyway.

Just look at the thread title!

Its quite clear even "premium brands" like Apple can go a bit too premium as their sales are not so great too.

So perhaps if Nvidia went to "only" 90% premium,they will out-premium AMD by 90% and everything will be fine.

There were some that went to the 12GB Ti within 2 years that argued 10 was fine..!

 

[Nexus18]

Did you ask him if that is what he meant or just assumed because he now likes Nvidia GPUs and RT therefore that is what he must mean?

I ain't defending him, for all I know maybe he did mean that. But that's not how it read to me. Not the post I quoted anyway.

Is this referring to me? I've been doing what others do now and skimming posts so missing the narrative

If so, I prefer nvidia gpus now for the following reasons:

- their solutions just work and are consistently good e.g. dlss, reflex (in a lot of games now and amds solution like fsr is meh at best) and dldsr (this is epic for older titles or where you can spare performance especially when using with dlss on my 3440x1440 panel, amd have nothing to compete with this)
- got a gsync ultimate module monitor so I want the best experience here too especially when I see reports of people with amd cards posting about flickering, black screens, hdr issues and so on
- shadowplay/geforce experience for when I do use it, is fantastic, amd does the job but requires a lot more faffing to get good results and even then it still falls short
- rt capability, obviously not much needs to be said here but it isn't just the performance being consistently better but also amd doesn't work/display properly some times, it seems that either game patches or/and amd drivers resolve these kind of image issues, however, not for any titles using the remix tool e.g. portal rtx has a ton of graphical artifacts on anything but nvidia hardware and obviously the performance is downright awful, not a surprise given it is a nvidia tool though and this may have been fixed since but no idea

Thus they can command a premium "within reason" for my needs/wants, I certainly am not paying over the odds for hardware though hence why I am still with a 3080 and not on a 4080/4090

 

[TNA]

There were some that went to the 12GB Ti within 2 years that argued 10 was fine..!

Who was that? Go on. You know you mean me But guess what, you are not being genuine with that post as I have dozen of posts saying 10gb would be enough for me until next gen of cards come out and I was right.

Just look at the thread title!

Its quite clear even "premium brands" like Apple can go a bit too premium as their sales are not so great too.

So perhaps if Nvidia went to "only" 90% premium,they will out-premium AMD by 90% and everything will be fine.

As I said. I agree with you. I have ways said the 4070 has a silly price. But that has nothing to do with the post you just replied to

 

[TNA]

Is this referring to me? I've been doing what others do now and skimming posts so missing the narrative

If so, I prefer nvidia gpus now for the following reasons:

- their solutions just work and are consistently good e.g. dlss, reflex (in a lot of games now and amds solution like fsr is meh at best) and dldsr (this is epic for older titles or where you can spare performance especially when using with dlss on my 3440x1440 panel, amd have nothing to compete with this)
- got a gsync ultimate module monitor so I want the best experience here too especially when I see reports of people with amd cards posting about flickering, black screens, hdr issues and so on
- shadowplay/geforce experience for when I do use it, is fantastic, amd does the job but requires a lot more faffing to get good results and even then it still falls short
- rt capability, obviously not much needs to be said here but it isn't just the performance being consistently better but also amd doesn't work/display properly some times, it seems that either game patches or/and amd drivers resolve these kind of image issues, however, not for any titles using the remix tool e.g. portal rtx has a ton of graphical artifacts on anything but nvidia hardware and obviously the performance is downright awful, not a surprise given it is a nvidia tool though and this may have been fixed since but no idea

Thus they can command a premium "within reason" for my needs/wants, I certainly am not paying over the odds for hardware though hence why I am still with a 3080 and not on a 4080/4090

Yes it was. Go read it properly.

Yeah, I skim a lot too. But not since the melmac post

 

[humbug]

@CAT-THE-FIFTH you're right.

They are offering 45% more performance for 39% more money and then hold off on something lower down the stack for 6 moths +, maybe longer, who knows... and then they wonder why no one bothers.

Or if there is something more in your price range its 28% more performance and still 20% more money, but look, see that makes it better value, so in our review we can't criticize it..... oh yes we have a reason to get out of having to do that, its spurious to the most extreme but we'll take it.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

@CAT-THE-FIFTH you're right.

They are offering 45% more performance for 39% more money and then hold off on something lower down the stack for 6 moths +, maybe longer, who knows... and then they wonder why no one bothers.

Or if there is something more in your price range its 28% more performance and still 20% more money, but look, see that makes it better value, so in our review we can't criticize it..... oh yes we have a reason to get out of having to do that so we'll take it.

The problem is Nvidia does it,and AMD sort of takes advantage of it too. Result is dGPU sales in total are in the toilet. Maybe they will see improvements this quarter,because we are starting to see some more price drops?

The obsession of margins over revenue is the issue here. If Nvidia even priced its older generation stock better(especially as Samsung 8NM has enough volume I suspect) they might have sold more dGPUs.

 

[Nexus18]

Yes it was. Go read it properly.

Yeah, I skim a lot too. But not since the melmac post

Ain't nobody got time for that Except for melmacs posts




At the end of the day whilst consoles are great value, with them having to do adaptive resolution (which is nowhere as good as dlss) and target 30 fps with considerably reduced settings, it's not an option for me now, don't mind reduced settings etc. but my eyes can't handle 30 fps.

 

[humbug]

The problem is Nvidia does it,and AMD sort of takes advantage of it too. Result is dGPU sales in total are in the toilet. Maybe they will see improvements this quarter,because we are starting to see some more price drops?

The obsession of margins over revenue is the issue here. If Nvidia even priced its older generation stock better(especially as Samsung 8NM has enough volume I suspect) they might have sold more dGPUs.

The problem is also cowardice from so called hardware reviewers.

but look, see that makes it better value, so in our review we can't criticize it.....

I'm not even joking.

oh yes we have a reason to get out of having to do that, its spurious to the most extreme but we'll take it.

Its not just the hardware vendors themselves looking after their own interest to the most extreme.
What is happening here is a perfect storm, a perfect storm always involves more than one element.

 

[melmac]

Don't worry mate. I am on his ignore list also for similar reasons

I recall having a debate and a disagreement with you in the past, but I did not block you. We all can't agree on everything and just because we do not agree on a particular topic that does not suddenly make you a bad person or your posts useless.

Gpuerrila could learn a thing or two about that. He ignores me because I happened to agree with Nexus (his arch enemy on here ) on the 10gb vram issue. I continued to try and speak with him, but eventually got the message. How petty.

I ain't going to blindly agree with everything someone says. I have my own brain and if he does not like it then that's his problem

I agree with a lot of your posts, especially the one to humbug, that was epic

I remember that argument. I was so angry with myself afterwards, because it was only then that I realised that it was a stupid argument. It was one of those debates where there really was no right or wrong answer just two different opinions. Normally I stay pretty calm, however you really got under my skin that day Not sure why as I never had a an argument with you before that. And I think all your posts are common sense not swayed by any particular brand. I didn't post much in the VRam debate threads as yourself and Woodsta were saying what I would have said anyway.

Blocking someone you had a disagreement with is childish though. You are right, it would be very boring place if we all agreed all the time. And there are going to be arguments. I even had to apologise to Lambchop after an argument where he was right and I was wrong. That was hard!! We didn't block each other though.

There are only 3 or 4 posters whose posts I consider totally useless. You mentioned one. Him ignoring you is no great loss.

My post to Humbug was a bit harsh. I probably should not have said he was one of the worst posters ever. But glad you enjoyed it and it felt good writing it too