Russian airliner missing over Egypt

scorza · 5 Nov 2015 at 19:56

Harlequin said:
ISIS have 2 or 3 MiG-21`s

evidence suggests though it was an internal event

Think their MiGs got taken out pretty swiftly by the Syrian air force. Somehow I can't see them flying anything over Israeli airspace, which you'd pretty much have to do to fly from Syria to Sinai.

jsmoke · 5 Nov 2015 at 19:58

Chojin said:
There's been a lot of talk about it being a bomb but I wonder if ISIS have got a plane of their own that they can use to fire missiles from. With their resources they could crudely fashion together a pressurised light aircraft with shoulder rockets.

Radar and satellite would pick up both aircraft and missile trail unless the powers that be are keeping hush hush. Not impossible though but highly unlikely.

lafemmefatale · 5 Nov 2015 at 20:02

jsmoke said:
Radar and satellite would pick up both aircraft and missile trail unless the powers that be are keeping hush hush. Not impossible though but highly unlikely.

Sinai isn't under primary radar IIRC. Secondary only. Satellites would most likely pick up the IR signature of a missile launch though.

Greebo · 5 Nov 2015 at 20:02

Uther said:
Wouldn't some sort of insurance kick in?

Not sure you are covered for terrorist issues. Plus don't insurance normally has it you have to pay and then get reimbursed later?

On googling it would appear to be the tour operators responsibly to cover the hotel costs and food although you may be expected to pay it and keep the receipt and be refunded on your return.

15 empty plane now going tomorrow to bring passengers only home, no luggage.

Chojin · 5 Nov 2015 at 20:03

Malevolence said:
Why go through all the trouble when you can simply pay Ibrahim, who works as a baggage handler at Sharm el-Sheikh and is also an IS sympathiser, to place a small device amongst the luggage?

That's a fair point although surely easier said than done even in an airport. Staff would need to be searched before they get air side and most airports will have detection dogs too.

Dalandius · 5 Nov 2015 at 20:05

Uther said:
Wouldn't some sort of insurance kick in?

I would assume so but it would be a cast of paying then claiming it back once you get back home.

Greebo · 5 Nov 2015 at 20:10

Chojin said:
That's a fair point although surely easier said than done even in an airport. Staff would need to be searched before they get air side and most airports will have detection dogs too.

I would presume with the announcement today that all flights to that airport are cancelled due to security issues at the airport and that passengers have to come home without luggage then that's exactly how they think it happened. A bomb got smuggled on board.

Stringy · 5 Nov 2015 at 20:12

Chojin said:
There are planes like the Cessna 210 that can get up to 20kft+ altitude. Obviously not at commercial airliner speeds.

Then you have the infrared homing FIM-92 Stinger which "can be adapted to fire from a wide variety of ground vehicles and helicopters". They have a range of 25,000 feet. 70,000 of them have been produced, I'm sure something like that is obtainable by ISIS through their Iraq acquisitions.

I know it sounds far out and there might be physical reasons why it's not possible, but ISIS have talked about having their own 'air force' before. They don't need a trillion dollar budget to cause chaos in the air.

JBuk · 5 Nov 2015 at 20:24

Chojin said:
There's been a lot of talk about it being a bomb but I wonder if ISIS have got a plane of their own that they can use to fire missiles from. With their resources they could crudely fashion together a pressurised light aircraft with shoulder rockets.

Ahh the road runner thrust manoeuvre

RoboCod · 5 Nov 2015 at 20:33

lafemmefatale said:
Sinai isn't under primary radar IIRC. Secondary only. Satellites would most likely pick up the IR signature of a missile launch though.

What is your background in defence? Or is this all Google based knowledge?

Harlequin · 5 Nov 2015 at 20:53

SBIRS images the planet every 10 seconds , and apparently got both the first heat bloom and the ground impact.

the comment re the MiG`s was simply they *had* some and I agree they don't have them now - also Israel would have downed them long before reaching the sinai

mattyfez · 5 Nov 2015 at 20:55

"British and American intelligence officers believe Metrojet flight 9268 was downed by a bomb in its luggage hold as suspicion turns on staff at the Egyptian airport "

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11976571/Russian-plane-crash-sinai-islamic-state-sharm-el-sheikh-airport-egypt-latest-news.html

pokerking · 5 Nov 2015 at 20:58

With the great power Russia seems to think it has should it not know a little bit more about its own Aircraft crashing and what not?

* Russia furious that Britain did not share its intelligence on a possible bomb, before making it public*

lmfy2k · 5 Nov 2015 at 21:07

we are due to go Sharm on 19th November :\

can only get a refund on flights if they hold all flights after 12th November

wewill still go if they give the all clear (fingers crossed!)

mattyfez · 5 Nov 2015 at 21:21

Moses said:
Sounds like it came from the Americans, rather than being something we established ourselves.

I think they (russians) probably had their firm suspicions, but were trying to play the 'we are not making any rash decisions' card until it was proven, If the boot was on the other foot and it was a British plane down, and Russia started screaming bomb! we'd be annoyed.

That said, if it was probably a bomb,. you cant blame UK for suspending flights as it's a big safety issue, imagine the backlash if the British stance was to continue flights until Russia said made a formal announcement and then another plane went down in the meantime ...

mattyfez · 5 Nov 2015 at 21:44

Moses said:
We seemingly acted on intelligence we got from a third party (the US). It wasn't our place to further disseminate that information if we weren't given permission to.

I agree, but seeing as we apparently had the intel, we had to stop flights, as I said if a further disaster were to occur.. it would be reckless not to stop flights given the apparent situation.

And what possible excuse could we give? there is none.

UK, why have you stopped flights?

UK: Dunno, just felt like it, slow day at the office.

Andybtsn · 5 Nov 2015 at 21:56

I find this article so sad: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ing-Russian-jet-exploded-earlier-thought.html

Poor little girl, as morbid as it sounds I hope the family died on the plane rather than watching their child been sucked out of it.

Jokester · 5 Nov 2015 at 22:14

Terrible, just doesn't make sense either.

Evidence of other potential bomb damage at the very rear of the plane as well.

Sankari · 6 Nov 2015 at 01:47

Putin might be wishing he'd attacked ISIS properly now...

dunker · 6 Nov 2015 at 01:58

if Putin was'nt properly attacking ISIS, and just bombing the FSA why would ISIS bomb the plane? if Putin is only bombing USA backed FSA why would ISIS even claim this. very confusing.