Janu....zaj
Poll: Sack Race 2015/16
- Thread starter Lonewolf
- Start date
Janu....zaj
Dude, i understand about a good defence. I'm the biggest advocator of building from the back, thats why i defended Moyes postion so much becuase he's good at building from the back. United don't have a attacking options, your squad is thin as anything for a team competing in the CL and PL. There's no 2 ways about it, he shouldnt of let players leave.
Janu is Januzi or however you spell his name..
Nani wasn't a waste of space tho was he? Fergie thought he was decent enough. It's better to have some extra players that can do a job than no one.
Your squad is thin. I just meantioned 4 players that could be in your match day squads this season that he's let go without finding players fit for purpose. That's pretty bad..
Janu is Januzi or however you spell his name..
Nani wasn't a waste of space tho was he? Fergie thought he was decent enough. It's better to have some extra players that can do a job than no one.
Your squad is thin. I just meantioned 4 players that could be in your match day squads this season that he's let go without finding players fit for purpose. That's pretty bad..
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laughs - of course - that's only a loan move so he hasn't really gone forever + he was just another promising but highly inconsistent youth player anyway
Not exactly a) gaurenteed 1st XI player b) was quiet in as many games as he did anything productive
1st - every team has to get rid of players before they can be replaced. Unless you do a Chelsea and loan out ~30 (youth) players, but it was Utd's main squad that was the problem to start with.
2 - Nani was relatively old but still as incosistant as when he arrived, it was absolutely pointless having him in the squad at all
3 As above he got rid of the right players for the most part - but he gambled on youth too much without having a consistant replacement to come in (whether he left it too late in the transfer market / chased players too long without getting anywhere etc etc)
Three of the four you mentioned have been replaced - Raf for Darmian admittedly is arguably the only one that was fit for purpose right now
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You saying Janu couldn't be playing instead of Depay? You've got to have players that can come in and do a job. You can't just have strong starting 11 and thats it. You dont even have a strong starting 11 tbf. A deeper playing squad with players within a certain ability of each other keeps everyone on thier toes, its as much about psychology as it is footballing ability.
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But go back to the original point - a good defence can't win you games, in relation to Utd's lack of decent attacking options. It can't and Southampton showed that.
It can certainly stop you losing them and give you a platform to win from but in and of itself, even the best defence in the world, can't win you games, that has to come from your offensive players.
That's not saying that defence isn't important, just that it has it's limits.
Your point just previously proves it CAN win you games and get into the top four - you just needed 10 goals over 38 games (admittedly in selected games but even so)
10 goals over 38 games is nothing - its the defence that made it THAT close to being touching distance.
The problem with Utd is that the defence has fallen apart recently, so Utd are having to fight harder to even get and stay in possession before any attack can be generated. That's even before any confidence from the creative players comes into the equation
edit - if you don't have a strong defence, all your attacking players are back with your midfielders / defenders helping out - that's never going to win games to start with.
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And that's the point, you can sell players but the players you bring in need to be better quality really.
Hernandez, Janu, Nani and Raf could easily be having games this season.
https://twitter.com/WhoScored/status/618057023532466176?ref_src=twsrc^tfw
He was proven at PL and CL level. And yea he was inconsistant but he was a game changer..no two ways about it.
You're really missing the point Frank, we aren't talking about in reality...
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It proves entirely the opposite - we had a fantastic defence but an often absent offense and that cost the ability to hit Top 4.
The defence couldn't win us games - it could only prevent us losing them.
It was the lack of goal scoring that led to so many 1-0 losses for us, games that could so easily have been 1-1 draws or 2-1 wins.
Even if United don't concede another goal all season, that's only sure to net them 20 points - it's the attacking players who will need to go out there and win games for them to get that extra 2 points each time.
AND THEY WERE REPLACED - sometimes transfers don't work out immediately
As Ive said FOUR times now
Attacks cant be built without a strong defence - otherwise the team lose the ball and suddenly you have 9 or ten outfield players in defensive positions
If a team is not conceding (like Southampton in your example ) then a lot more players are able to attack and overload the oppositions defence to make it that much more difficult to defend / that much easier for you to score.
If you don't have a strong defence that doesn't happen and it makes it easy for the opposition
10 extra goals over a season really isn't very much at all given the number of games that are played (actually at that level - its one decent attacking player's output for the season)
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Haha..i realise sometimes transfers don't work out. But even your own fans were saying why are we replacing players proven at PL level with people that aren't. 4 transfers is a lot really, especially in such a high profile job and when you have the CL and PL to think about. You have one striker Frank, one! It doesn't take a genius to work out that youre going to find it hard to score..
Dude...you are really missing our point.
Take a one off game for example, you can't score for toffee, but you have an incredible tight defence. What is the likely outcome? 0-0. 1 point. Lets say you have a stonking attack and a defence that's a bit suspect. what's the likely outcome? 2-1, 4-3, 3-3, 5-4, 3-2,2-2. Theres a reason attacking players go for a lot more money..
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Of course, what you're saying is true but that's different to the point that was made - the defence alone can't win you the games. It can stop you losing and give you a platform to win (as you rightly point out) but as Southampton amply demonstrated, if you don't actually have the offensive capability to exploit it, you don't win games you should be winning. Defence can't win on it's own.
One aspect that a lot of people won't think about is psychology which is a big part of any sport.
Opposition teams used to fear Manchester United and that fear likely translated into opposition managers setting up their teams not to have a go at United but to simply contain them, opposition players used to fear the United players and that likely translated into being hesitant on the pitch and not playing their natural games against them.
With Ferguson and most of his multiple title winning team now mostly disbanded and after a couple of years of being seen as a wounded animal, managers and teams are no longer afraid of them and are being a lot more positive in taking the game to them. The United players' frame of mind has also been hit hard due to poor form and loss of experienced players with winning mentalities. They just no longer have that aura of invincibility.
United really needed to appoint a successor after Ferguson that would carry on the fear factor (ie. Mourinho) and fill the massive vacuum that him leaving had left as best as possible. I still don't think the likes of Vidic/Evra would have left if they'd have got a more respected manager to replace Ferguson and that might have eased the transition too, even if just keeping them around the squad for another 1-2 seasons.
Rather than United transitioning as smoothly as possible it's as though they decided to just take a wrecking ball to everything Ferguson had built and are now in a position where they are having to rebuild it all back up from scratch.
Under LvG now they're seen as toothless so it's not surprising teams are attacking them and their defense isn't what it used to be which offers even more encouragement to teams.
Opposition teams used to fear Manchester United and that fear likely translated into opposition managers setting up their teams not to have a go at United but to simply contain them, opposition players used to fear the United players and that likely translated into being hesitant on the pitch and not playing their natural games against them.
With Ferguson and most of his multiple title winning team now mostly disbanded and after a couple of years of being seen as a wounded animal, managers and teams are no longer afraid of them and are being a lot more positive in taking the game to them. The United players' frame of mind has also been hit hard due to poor form and loss of experienced players with winning mentalities. They just no longer have that aura of invincibility.
United really needed to appoint a successor after Ferguson that would carry on the fear factor (ie. Mourinho) and fill the massive vacuum that him leaving had left as best as possible. I still don't think the likes of Vidic/Evra would have left if they'd have got a more respected manager to replace Ferguson and that might have eased the transition too, even if just keeping them around the squad for another 1-2 seasons.
Rather than United transitioning as smoothly as possible it's as though they decided to just take a wrecking ball to everything Ferguson had built and are now in a position where they are having to rebuild it all back up from scratch.
Under LvG now they're seen as toothless so it's not surprising teams are attacking them and their defense isn't what it used to be which offers even more encouragement to teams.
Yep, god knows how we got him considering he was literally in the Champions League a couple of weeks ago (first time getting Maccabi to the groups).