Poll: Sack Race 2015/16
- Thread starter Lonewolf
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It was never going to end well. Real are the most bonkers of all bonkers clubs and Benitez is about as unsuitable as they come to a club like Real.
Spent them into debt? Benitez joined Valencia on the back of them selling Mendieta for mega money and then soon after they sold Kily Gonzalez too
Valencia's financial problems had nothing to do with Benitez.
And as rubbish as you may claim Real and Barca were (neither dropped out of the top 4 in either title winning season btw and he won the titles by 5 and 7 points), how long has it been and will it be before we see another side outside of Real and Barca win 2 La Liga's in 3 seasons? What he achieved with Valencia and winning the CL with the squad he had at Liverpool were nothing short of remarkable achievements.
Spent them into debt? Benitez joined Valencia on the back of them selling Mendieta for mega money and then soon after they sold Kily Gonzalez too
Valencia's financial problems had nothing to do with Benitez.And as rubbish as you may claim Real and Barca were (neither dropped out of the top 4 in either title winning season btw and he won the titles by 5 and 7 points), how long has it been and will it be before we see another side outside of Real and Barca win 2 La Liga's in 3 seasons? What he achieved with Valencia and winning the CL with the squad he had at Liverpool were nothing short of remarkable achievements.
It was never going to end well. Real are the most bonkers of all bonkers clubs and Benitez is about as unsuitable as they come to a club like Real.
Spent them into debt? Benitez joined Valencia on the back of them selling Mendieta for mega money and then soon after they sold Kily Gonzalez too
And as rubbish as you may claim Real and Barca were (neither dropped out of the top 4 in either title winning season btw and he won the titles by 5 and 7 points), how long has it been and will it be before we see another side outside of Real and Barca win 2 La Liga's in 3 seasons? What he achieved with Valencia and winning the CL with the squad he had at Liverpool were nothing short of remarkable achievements.
I said a couple of years back that I could consider Simeone winning La Liga and the Champions League ahead of Barcelona/Real Madrid (and Real in the final in Europe) one of the biggest achievements for a incredibly long time.
This achievement by Valencia is not that far behind it to be honest, fantastic return.
Also; Mendieta famous egg.
Caporegime
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Valencia were competitive before he joined, Deportivo pretty much spent that whole period including winning the league before Valencia, in the top four. They had better results than Valencia over that 5-6 year period. It's seen as so big because people think Real/Barca could barely be beaten thus it must be magic for Benitez to beat them, how do I know that, because literally every time those league wins are brought up someone says that exact thing... "But he beat Real and Barca, zomg, I can't even".
Reality is Real/Barca weren't very good from 2000-2004. Around 2004 they got HUGE tv money and a couple years later they were the massively dominant duo. Simeone broke an actual genuine strangle hold those two had on the league, Valencia didn't come close to that.
from 99/00 these teams finished in these positions
Barca 2nd, 4th, 4th, 6th, 2nd.
Real 5th, 1st, 3rd, 1st, 4th.
Depor 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd.
Valencia 3rd, 5th, 1st, 5th, 1st.
Other teams who finished in the top four in that period, Celta Vigo, Mallorca, Sociedad, Zaragoza.
In reality Benitez did a Mourinho at Chelsea(figuratively with Valencia then literally later on
). That side was mostly put together in a couple big spending years before he took over. This wasn't a weak side, they finished 3rd, spent more and finished 5th because they focused on the CL and got to the champs league final before Benitez took over. They brought Aimar in 00/01, he only played 10 league games that year signing in January.
Benitez took over an expensive signing with a £25mil Aimar who was lets say Messi light. The team was built around him and were already great before Benitez joined. Winning the league with that side twice while Barca/Real flounded wasn't bad, but wasn't particularly impressive. They were spending themselves into heavy debt and had some fantastic players.
Liverpool, kinda fluked his way to a CL with Houllier's squad then left with the team in 7th or 8th. Spent heavily and made Napoli worse, made Real worse.
Reality is Real/Barca weren't very good from 2000-2004. Around 2004 they got HUGE tv money and a couple years later they were the massively dominant duo. Simeone broke an actual genuine strangle hold those two had on the league, Valencia didn't come close to that.
from 99/00 these teams finished in these positions
Barca 2nd, 4th, 4th, 6th, 2nd.
Real 5th, 1st, 3rd, 1st, 4th.
Depor 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd.
Valencia 3rd, 5th, 1st, 5th, 1st.
Other teams who finished in the top four in that period, Celta Vigo, Mallorca, Sociedad, Zaragoza.
In reality Benitez did a Mourinho at Chelsea(figuratively with Valencia then literally later on
). That side was mostly put together in a couple big spending years before he took over. This wasn't a weak side, they finished 3rd, spent more and finished 5th because they focused on the CL and got to the champs league final before Benitez took over. They brought Aimar in 00/01, he only played 10 league games that year signing in January.Benitez took over an expensive signing with a £25mil Aimar who was lets say Messi light. The team was built around him and were already great before Benitez joined. Winning the league with that side twice while Barca/Real flounded wasn't bad, but wasn't particularly impressive. They were spending themselves into heavy debt and had some fantastic players.
Liverpool, kinda fluked his way to a CL with Houllier's squad then left with the team in 7th or 8th. Spent heavily and made Napoli worse, made Real worse.
Caporegime
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It was never going to end well. Real are the most bonkers of all bonkers clubs and Benitez is about as unsuitable as they come to a club like Real.
Spent them into debt? Benitez joined Valencia on the back of them selling Mendieta for mega money and then soon after they sold Kily Gonzalez too
And as rubbish as you may claim Real and Barca were (neither dropped out of the top 4 in either title winning season btw and he won the titles by 5 and 7 points), how long has it been and will it be before we see another side outside of Real and Barca win 2 La Liga's in 3 seasons? What he achieved with Valencia and winning the CL with the squad he had at Liverpool were nothing short of remarkable achievements.
Try to read, I literally said, and you quoted, that Valencia SPENT THEMSELVES into debt, hence with my above post, they made it to a CL final BEFORE Benitez took over and had an awesome squad thanks to that spending. They did what CHelsea did... without any financial backing or the ability to pay it off.
Also from the above post notice that Deportivo were the only team who remained in the top three throughout that period, neither Real, Barca or Valencia managed to stay inside the top 4 in that period. Deportivo were the strongest side in the league with several other teams finishing above one or both of Real/Barca in those seasons. Valencia were neither the first nor the only team to break Real or Barca in those years so the entire notion of Valencia breaking a strangle hold of two teams on the league is entirely flawed. Of 6 league titles between Real and Barca they only won 1/3rd of them. From 04/05 till what 13/14, 9 years only Real or Barca won the league. That was a strangle hold, but suggesting Benitez is epic because he beat those two using their CURRENT domination to overblow how big a win those leagues were back then when they absolutely weren't dominant is entirely ridiculous.
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Apologies. As you were discrediting Benitez's job it certainly reads as if you were referring to them spending themselves into debt during the time Benitez took them to 2 La Liga's, not prior to that.
If you did mean before then that only makes Benitez's achievement even greater. He inherited a decent squad that hadn't managed to win La Liga and took them to the title in 2 out of 3 seasons despite them selling off some of their best players.
No such notion was made
As you might say, try to read.Winning the 1 league title, while hard, is not a massive achievement. To do it twice in such a short period of time however is - history shows you that and not just what's happened since but prior. You have to go back to 1984 before you'll find another side (other than Valencia) that's won La Liga twice in less than 18 years (Ateltico in 96 and 2014).
edit: For clarity. In the 31 seasons since 1984 La Liga's been won by Real or Barca 26 times. Deportivo once and Atletico twice (18 years apart). Valencia winning it twice in 3 seasons is pretty impressive imo
Even Adidas complaining about LvG's playing style now
This is literally the only thing that will make them reassess our manager and direction. They are using the club to milk as much sponsorship as they possibly can and the performances on the pitch are a distant second to this. Until the sponsors start dropping off they wont care and by that point it might be too late to recover for a long time.
The Real Madrid press conference about Rafa http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/rafa-benitez-sacked-live-updates-7115327
Where does this all leave Mourinho? His pet dog was claiming Real desperately wanted him and also reporting that Mourinho wanted the Utd job. Real have gone for Zidane and Utd seem content with LvG but if things go further south they'll give it to Giggs.
Caporegime
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I'm not sure if you're saying that is good or bad. There is more to it, they've scrapped a lot of wins. Navas has brought them more points than he should have frankly. Defensively they are a shambles, midfield control they are a shambles, in most of the big games there is absolutely no link between midfield and the front three.
Ancelotti had a higher win percentage but played notably better football. Ancelotti was fired (wrongly, ridiculously) because he didn't win the league in his two years, he had 45 and 44 points at the same stage that Benitez got 37 points. First year Ancelotti lost both games to Barca by 1 goal, last year he beat them by 2 and lost the other by 1, in none of the games did Barca thrash or look capable of thrashing Real. Benitez got an ass whooping, Barcelona missed a bunch of chances.
You can't be worse in the league when the previous guy was fired for not winning the league, play worse football and get whooped by your biggest rivals. Frankly you can win the league, the champs league, but not get whooped by Barcelona or you're out.
Ancelotti dropped points with wins or losses in 8 games last year, they won all but 8 games. Benitez has already dropped points in 7 games at the half way stage. The big teams work on fine margins. 68% win rate in La liga for those two teams in the current era is pretty rubbish.
Says everything about the league tbh..
Caporegime
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Mendieta was the only player sold for more than 3mil during benitez's spell there. They sold one major player who was pretty old, managed to after a 40mil move play 20 games for Lazio before leaving. He had a single season at Barca before finishing out his career in Boro where he was okay but not magic. They sold him at the perfect time and his sale prevented them losing anyone else and they bought more than enough in the previous years to compensate.
So selling off some of their best players is pretty much nonsense.
No such notion was made
Winning the 1 league title, while hard, is not a massive achievement. To do it twice in such a short period of time however is - history shows you that and not just what's happened since but prior. You have to go back to 1984 before you'll find another side (other than Valencia) that's won La Liga twice in less than 18 years (Ateltico in 96 and 2014).
edit: For clarity. In the 31 seasons since 1984 La Liga's been won by Real or Barca 26 times. Deportivo once and Atletico twice (18 years apart). Valencia winning it twice in 3 seasons is pretty impressive imo
Yes in the history of the league Real and Barca are utterly dominant, you're saying Valencia broke that domination themselves like it's amazing, this isn't the reality. Deportivo won a title with the lowest points total I could see for La liga(69), Valencia won it with 75, the second lowest points total I could see randomly clicking through some of the years here ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Liga ).
Looking at tables the number of times both Real and Barcelona weren't in the top 2 is pretty small, the number of times they aren't both in the top 3 is tiny, the number of times only one of them is in the top 4 is exceptionally small.
Yet in that 5 year period MULTIPLE teams finished above one or both of them, multiple times one or both of them was outside of the top two. This hasn't happened before. Atletico won with a large points total against Real and Barca who were utterly dominant up to that single win, were still in the top 3, and continue to be in the top 3 since that Atletico win. They didn't drop down to 5th or 6th, several teams didn't challenge for the title. Atletico were awesome.
I honestly don't know why you can't see that monumental difference between displacing a top notch and in form Barca/Real, and how multiple teams beat them repeatedly as being a completely different circumstance.
They had a bad 5-6 year spell(longer for Barca, they were much less consistent and have historically been much poorer than Real in comparison so it's not very surprising. Since they've had pretty much financial parity(04/05 onwards) they've been as or more consistent, again not surprising. The concept that Real and Barca were as good as ever and Valencia magically beat them ignores Deportivo doing it, ignores all the other teams who finished above them completely. In any 30 year period both Real and Barca will have a few bad spells, at some stage those bad spells will overlap, early 2000's is when that happened and other teams got a chance to run riot for a few years, nothing more or less.