Poll: Sack Race 2015/16

Who's getting it first?

  • Total voters
    224
drunkenmaster said:
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Whether they bought enough previously to compensate for the loss of Mendieta is besides the point. Benitez won the league with, what should have been, a weaker squad than what Valencia had, and didn't win the league with, before him. He then went on to win the 2nd title after losing Gonzalez - he and Mendieta being Valencia's 2 standout players pre Benitez.

And you can make out Real and Barca were terrible as much as you like. The facts speak for themselves, in over 30 years no other side has achieved what he did and if we have this debate in another 30 years it wouldn't be a surprise if nobody else still hasn't done it too.
 
Real Madrid. The only club Rafa has managed since 1999 and not won something (Cup, League ...) :eek:. He might not have been the right 'fit' but to suggest he is anything other than an excellent manager is ridiculous (imho).

Also; when Florentino Pérez was not the clubs president (Ramón Calderón 2006-2009) Real Madrid won two league titles.

The problem at Real Madrid is not the managers.
 
Zidane was a legend on the pitch. I can't help but feel he's going to be a lemon beside it. No real managerial experience besides a bit of assistant manager and he's jumping straight into one of the most demanding clubs and positions in the football world. It's not like he needs the money.
 
BaZ87 said:
Whether they bought enough previously to compensate for the loss of Mendieta is besides the point. Benitez won the league with, what should have been, a weaker squad than what Valencia had, and didn't win the league with, before him. He then went on to win the 2nd title after losing Gonzalez - he and Mendieta being Valencia's 2 standout players pre Benitez.

And you can make out Real and Barca were terrible as much as you like. The facts speak for themselves, in over 30 years no other side has achieved what he did and if we have this debate in another 30 years it wouldn't be a surprise if nobody else still hasn't done it too.
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Seriously, grasping at straws, he left on a free transfer because he was pushed out of the club having not been used much in the last season, 13 whole appearances. Gonzales was in no way a stand out player at the time he left.

Your facts don't speak for themselves, you're trying to suggest that the Real team from before 99 and after 2004 is relevant to the other teams. It's a nonsense argument. Is City/Arsenal/Leicester beating the CURRENT Utd team the same as them beating the 94-2004 Utd just because 'history'. History is absolutely not in any way a valid argument for a specific year or group of years of football. Your argument is, because they were good in plenty of other years this is proof they were also great in that specific period, it not only defies logic, it sounds completely ludicrous and I honestly have no idea how you're trying to use it as an argument.

Wait, Liverpool were once a dominant force, West Ham just beat them, thus West Ham are the best team? That is effectively what you're saying, ignore the team they beat in the specific year, compare that win to Liverpool's best ever team... seriously?

Once again, Atletico beat those two while both teams scored huge points and so did Atletico. When Valencia won two titles it was AFTER Deportivo already broke the Real/Barca stranglehold, with a woeful points tally, because Barca and Real had gotten significantly worse. Deportivo had the best average finish over that 5 year period of all teams, Barca and Real were NOT the strongest teams over that 5 year period and it wasn't even 2, but multiple teams who finished above Real and Barca over that 5 year period.

What Real did before and after that period doesn't change the fact that they weren't close to the same strength, nor as competitive nor weren't beaten by multiple teams in those specific years.
 
Tummy said:
Real Madrid. The only club Rafa has managed since 1999 and not won something (Cup, League ...) :eek:. He might not have been the right 'fit' but to suggest he is anything other than an excellent manager is ridiculous (imho).

Also; when Florentino Pérez was not the clubs president (Ramón Calderón 2006-2009) Real Madrid won two league titles.

The problem at Real Madrid is not the managers.
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He dropped a quality Napoli side out of the CL for no reason, a few months gone all the players say the training is dramatically improved, all the fans/pundits say the football has improved, the results have improved and they are in the title fight.

He's been very poor at his last 3 jobs, Inter, Napoli and Real... yeah, no reason to think he isn't great. Put it this way, Valencia built up a team, changed manager and he won a couple of titles in Barca/Real's weak period, not bad, not as great as talked about by any stretch. Third biggest club wins 2 out of 5 titles while Barca and Real kinda suck doesn't sound that great does it.

At Liverpool he won the CL with Houlliers team then gradually made them awful to watch and left with them in 7th and playing badly. He went to Inter and promptly got fired after two mickey mouse cups that are meaningless because he took the treble winning side down the table. Won the europa league being the only genuine champs league team and reigning CL champs in the competition... did poorly in the league... played like crap. Napoli had built the team back into a force, got them into 2nd before Benitez took over, Valencia got to 2nd two years before Benitez took over then got to the CL final the year before he took over, Valencia were a freaking force before he took over and Napoli were ready to be one in the league at least. He won the league cup in the first year as the team got worse and played worse, managed to miss out on the CL spots the next season despite buying all the targets he wanted and spending a load on wages, team improved dramatically the moment he left.

Went to Real, made them worse, dire against better teams, woeful in midfield, woeful football.

It's also worth remembering that his Valencia team could barely score, defended to the title and were awful to watch in general, same as he made Liverpool, same to a lesser degree at Napoli, same at Real.
 
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drunkenmaster said:
Seriously, grasping at straws, he left on a free transfer because he was pushed out of the club having not been used much in the last season, 13 whole appearances. Gonzales was in no way a stand out player at the time he left........
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No grasping at straws, you're just missing the point. You claimed that he inherited a great squad as a way to devalue what he achieved. The point I've made is that the 2 standout players from that great squad were either were sold straight off or in decline and subsequently left a year or 2 later - either way Benitez didn't win the leagues with that great squad you talk about, at least not with the 2 best players from it :)

As for the rest of your post, I can't be bothered reading it. You're entitled to your opinion but as I said, over the course of 31 seasons (and counting) only 5 times haven't Real or Barca not won the League so for anybody to do it twice in such a short period of time is a remarkable achievement.
 
He has an exciting young team developing at Spurs and they are currently much more likely to finish the season with CL football so I doubt we would be able to persuade him to leave them.
 
Ideally we'd want someone in now, so they can maybe improve things and have half a season to evaluate the current players properly.

I'd be happy with him though, with a big budget there's no reason he couldn't succeed (but no guarantee either).
 
Moses said:
Except you can double his salary and playing staff budget overnight...
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I know we could but he is young and Spurs have shown faith in him so I doubt he would want to leave them for a few years. He has lots of time left in his career and has seen his Spurs team come together.

United need a manager at the end of the season at the very latest. Honestly, you may be right and he would jump at the opportunity to manage United but I don't believe it myself.

cm1179 said:
the united job is a poisened chalice
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It really isn't, you are given a ridiculous budget and freedom with the football you play and the expectations are pretty low as we have seen. Moyes was **** and LvG isn't much better. Is the Spurs job a poison chalice? How many managers have you been through in the past 5 years?
 
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the gulf between united and spurs is closer than southampton to spurs

spurs could become a real force over the next 5-10 yrs. great youth prospects, comparitevaly young manager with a mature head on his shoulders, new stadium, new investment, new owners likely too.

united aren't going anywhere but they need to realise they don't have the monopoly they used to. the usual suspects arsenal, chelsea and city ( though chelsea not so much recently ) will continue to put them to the sword for the title.

united are treading water atm new territory finding a stable manager. i know they give ferguson time but these are different eras. i believe LVG will leave via mutual consent over the summer but if they get his replacement wrong then they're in trouble.
 
You're kidding yourself CM. Financial fair play makes it nigh on impossible for Spurs to become a force. Even if you manage to break into the CL this year, and it's the best chance you'll have, you're still going to go into next season with 5 clubs far greater financial muscle than you. History shows the correlation between money and league position - you get the odd year where the odd club over performs/under performs by a league position or two but as a general rule you'll end up roughly where you rank in the spending league. The gap, in terms of finances, between Spurs and Southampton is far smaller than that between Utd and Spurs.

As for whether Poch would leave Spurs for Utd. It's not happening half way through the season and you'd be inclined to think if Spurs made it into the CL he'd at least give it another year but if Spurs don't make the CL and a big offer came in it would be difficult for him not to give it serious consideration. As touched on above, he can do an amazing job at Spurs and still not win anything or make it into the CL. With the resources available to him at Utd he could do averagely and still be competing for titles, whilst earning 2 or 3 times as much money as he is now.
 
not every decision is swayed by money. what poch would be paid at utd would be balanced by the increased pressure. he's probably loaded anyway, why would he want that extra pressure at his age? he'd be far better commiting to spurs for the next decade on the premise we keep our best players as we don't need to sell.

there's a definite change in culture that poch has bought that runs far deeper than redknapps 'i'll put an arm around him and tell him a joke' philosiphy. poch is building on team which has a good balance of youth and experience but more importantly he has got them to alter their approach of getting the best out of themselves and has shipped out the ones who didn't buy into that.

it isn't a biased opinion when i say if i was him i'd more excited by the prospect of spurs over the next 10 yrs than the pressure of united.
 
First of all it wouldn't purely be money, he'd be far more likely to regularly qualify for the CL and actually win things at Utd than Spurs too. And as Moses said, you can easily replace Spurs-Utd with Southampton-Spurs in your post and what happened there? He left a lower pressured job at Southampton for a bigger, more well paid job at Spurs, there's nothing to suggest he wouldn't do the same if a bigger, better paid job came up.
 
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