Most Scots I know haven't really changed opinion, where they vocalise one, since the referendum - for most a strong Scottish identity is important hence why some vote for the SNP but most of them have no interest in leaving the union (their hearts are in one place their head in another so to speak).
Scottish Inderef Mk2 - lets have a civilized discussion folks.
Most Scots I know haven't really changed opinion, where they vocalise one, since the referendum - for most a strong Scottish identity is important hence why some vote for the SNP but most of them have no interest in leaving the union (their hearts are in one place their head in another so to speak).
Scotland leaving the UK with everything happening at present would be economic ruin. They'd be out of the EU, out of Nato, have no currency, oil has halved in price since the last referendum, and they'd be at a very strong risk of people migrating south in search of jobs which would compound things further.
That counter on the site is moving at some rate, I just watched it go from 62,260 to 62,412 in about 30 seconds.
"We in Scotland are fed up of persecution by the SNP leader who is solely intent on getting independence at any cost. As a result, Scotland is suffering hugely."
Is not a petition that is going to get a credible response, why can't people write more eloquently?
Is not a petition that is going to get a credible response, why can't people write more eloquently?
Funny as it is we all know these petitions count for diddly-squat. I only wait to hear what the media bandwagon make of it.
Funny as it is we all know these petitions count for diddly-squat. I only wait to hear what the media bandwagon make of it.
Couldn't agree more, I should really also say that Scotland and England are, in my opinion, better united than divided. I just hope that the Scotts can see this also. I play some CS with some Scottish blokes a couple of nights a week and there was plenty of banter and conversation during both the last Scottish referendum as well as the EU one, I have no doubt this one will be no different. Like many others I certainly wasn't a fan of the idea of Brexit as the implications for the industry that I work in could well be quite bad, my reasons like many others were purely selfish and my vote was cast with the impact on my wife and I firmly at the forefront of my mind, although we lost the vote to stay in the EU you have to respect the vote of millions of others that voted against. I believe that the Scottish people have the right for the same vote and if majority rules then so be it. FWIW that counter just topped 65k, I can't believe for one second that 2k+ Scottish people sat there and signed this petition in the last 10 minutes.
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Would there have been a new vote had Yes one following the oil price crash?
Things always change - you can't constantly hold referendums until you get the right answer. Well actually you can I suppose.
This is the sad thing about campaigns to change the status quo - remain sides must win every time, the other side needs win only once.
Had we not voted to Brexit i bet we'd still be hearing about how we need another vote..
Soldato
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What you personally voted for might still exist but the what the UK is, has fundamentally changed with a hard brexit, i know people who voted remain on the basis of remaining in the EU and the stability of the status quo - that no longer exists what we are faced with is uncertainty and unknown risks in all directions because of a vote that wasn't reflected in Scottish votes by a government that wasn't supported by Scottish votes. I can understand you don't think that's a problem but presumably that's because you didn't factor these into your votes where others might have.
Why do you think it's more acceptable to place an arbitrary timescale on when another vote could happen rather than it being set when something fundamental changes what the UK is?
The SNP have to get it passed in holyrood before it goes to Westminster which seems to be exactly what you are asking for?
As for living in a democracy, these mechanisms exist in a democracy the articles and bills which have to be complied with to enact a referendum etc are all there - it's not undemocratic to follow the rules of the democracy just because you don't like the rules!
Dunno how accurate it is but the geolocation thing is putting most of the people signing it in Scotland - not sure if that is a user's choice or based on some other lookup.
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this is true, here if scotland does leave can we re-roll brexit?
Who knows, I didn't even get as far as looking at the geolocation thing before you mentioned it
The Scots chose to stay in a UK that was part of the EU and then voted to remain in the EU by a large majority. Democracy by referendum is a disaster but the box is opened now and it can't be closed for a long time.
Scotland didn't vote as Scotland, we all voted as the UK.
It was a horrible, stupid idea but sadly its done and all we are left with is imperfect options.
I am big fan of the EU but i struggle to understand what is better about being in the EU but not the UK rather than being in the UK but not the EU.
Leaving unions is bad. Let's stop doing it
That's what I pointed out earlier.on I the thread. Makes no sense. Whinging that they want a vote to leave a union because we left a union...genius.Scotland didn't vote as Scotland, we all voted as the UK.
It was a horrible, stupid idea but sadly its done and all we are left with is imperfect options.
I am big fan of the EU but i struggle to understand what is better about being in the EU but not the UK rather than being in the UK but not the EU.
Leaving unions is bad. Let's stop doing it
I think the irony here is in the 2014 ref i think Yes had a lot stronger points - oil revenue looked strong, things seemed balanced and calm enough for them to carefully do a massive constitutional change, and after they left they could casually apply for the EU in their own time etc.
However now 'Yes' is polling higher, even though they are basically saying lets leave our most important ally on top of leaving our 2nd largest, and trying to negotiate into the EU while the UK will be getting all the attention for leaving. THey will be ****** bricks if Yes wins. Oil revenue is down, they have a large deficit, they probably won't get the Sterling. I understand nationalism to an extent, but if yes wins then Scotland is tied into life long SNP and England to life long conservatives. The former however, have a lot to answer for crumbling infrastructure right now, and their popularity is already falling off. From a vote winning perspective they are well set and now is the right time to try if ever. However, from an actual platform to form a country, they couldn't have chosen a worse time.
I suspect (hope) No wins, and if it does, i reckon it will be very close, but after that, the entire thought of independence will trail off. I think it will be like Quebec, where they nearly got Independence but lost out by a few thousand votes, and decade or so later, Independence is completely off the cards.
However now 'Yes' is polling higher, even though they are basically saying lets leave our most important ally on top of leaving our 2nd largest, and trying to negotiate into the EU while the UK will be getting all the attention for leaving. THey will be ****** bricks if Yes wins. Oil revenue is down, they have a large deficit, they probably won't get the Sterling. I understand nationalism to an extent, but if yes wins then Scotland is tied into life long SNP and England to life long conservatives. The former however, have a lot to answer for crumbling infrastructure right now, and their popularity is already falling off. From a vote winning perspective they are well set and now is the right time to try if ever. However, from an actual platform to form a country, they couldn't have chosen a worse time.
I suspect (hope) No wins, and if it does, i reckon it will be very close, but after that, the entire thought of independence will trail off. I think it will be like Quebec, where they nearly got Independence but lost out by a few thousand votes, and decade or so later, Independence is completely off the cards.
Soldato
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IMO they are two completely different things performing different functions with different goals
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I would disagree with that one, bit probably through hope than expectation! In the previous indy ref i thought it was pretty clear that the snp wouldn't exist in their current form following independence, and the Scottish parliament would have a very different make up than it is at the moment
Scot Labour may benefit from being separate to the English one, but i still suspect SNP would become Scotland's Fiana Fail https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fianna_Fáil
Either way, Scotland will be left leaning and England will always be Libertarian / Right and that will be another thing among others that will take decades to even out and adjust. The UK has grown organically on the south being a built up Hub of service workers and the further North you go, the more natural resource and industry you get, suddenly cutting off the Head from the body or vice versa is a real issue. The UK leaving the EU is like a divorce / falling out with a club you are part of, whereas the UK breaking up is like losing limbs :O
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I can only imagine the outcry if Scotland had voted yes last time round, and less than three years later, politicians demanded another referendum because they felt the political landscape had changed so much that we should all ignore the majority vote that preceded and just force everyone to vote again.
And that's the advantage Nicola will always have, because a vote against her can always be portrayed as a kick in the teeth for poor wee Scotland. But if it ever goes her way, then it will be irreversible.
Also, she wants to break up the Union because apparently Scotland should be able to decide it's own fate. And if we do she's promising to take us back into the EU where Brussels can tell us how many fish we can pull out of our own waters and pretty much dictate all our laws again.
Because you see the UK voted in a referendum and the outcome didn't suit her, so she now wants Scotland to vote in what will be a third referendum in as many years because the result of the first one didn't suit her either. She's not one for accepting the result of democratic elections, is she?
And that's the advantage Nicola will always have, because a vote against her can always be portrayed as a kick in the teeth for poor wee Scotland. But if it ever goes her way, then it will be irreversible.
Also, she wants to break up the Union because apparently Scotland should be able to decide it's own fate. And if we do she's promising to take us back into the EU where Brussels can tell us how many fish we can pull out of our own waters and pretty much dictate all our laws again.
Because you see the UK voted in a referendum and the outcome didn't suit her, so she now wants Scotland to vote in what will be a third referendum in as many years because the result of the first one didn't suit her either. She's not one for accepting the result of democratic elections, is she?