Shoppers 'to be charged 20p on plastic bottles & Metal Cans under return scheme

Kenai said:
It is but this scheme is because you apparently need a kick in your balls to encourage other people who don't recycle.
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That, I think, is the problem in a nutshell.

I disagree with the idea of replacing a system that works efficiently with one that at best works less efficiently in order to make things worse for people who already recycle in the hope that doing so might maybe possibly somehow coerce people who don't recycle into doing so.

As for littering, people do that because they don't give a crap. Making some of the litter worth 20p won't change that. Fining some people £50 for littering might change that. If there was anything more than a negligable chance of being fined for littering, that might make people who litter think twice about doing so. But penalising people who already recycle is an easier target, both practically and politically.

I'm not even convinced the goal of the scheme is to reduce waste and/or reduce littering. I think the goal is for politicians to be seen to be Doing Something without them actually having to do anything or take any political risk.
 
As long as the facilities are available to conveniently return the bottles and cans (preferably at the shop I bought the items from in the first place), I'm okay with this. If the nearest return point is five miles away, then I'm going to have a good moan about it.
 
MikeTimbers said:
why does this boost car usage? you go to the shops and buy stuff, some of it has a deposit charged, when you've emptied it, you put it to one side, and next time you go to the shops you put the containers in a machine which gives you back cash for each item. It's 20 ******* p an item. If you drive to the shop to get back a couple of quid at most you're an idiot.
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Online shopping...
 
i've not been to a supermarket or shop for over a year now, I don't plan to ever set foot in one again, how will I get my money back?
 
LeMson said:
i've not been to a supermarket or shop for over a year now, I don't plan to ever set foot in one again, how will I get my money back?
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Allegedly, the companies that deliver will be forced to collect and count whatever you return and forced to create somehow seperated areas inside their vehicles to keep goods to be delivered apart from collected stuff to be "recycled" (which usually means landfilled anyway). Allegedly. Somehow.
 
Idea is only good in my view if can be recycled (with refund) without having to travel to a recycling place, bit unfriendly for disabled, non drivers, people far away from recycling bins etc. 20p on a plastic bottle of juice e.g. is a pretty hefty premium as well in terms of %. I wonder if this will get put in official inflation figures.

It should be tied in with delivery drivers collecting old bottles, like they used to do with bags.

I see alex touched on this as well here. I think this is as good as a stealth tax, the gov will know the majority wont be recycling at approved places for refunds.

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/forums/posts/34657550
 
Angilion said:
Allegedly, the companies that deliver will be forced to collect and count whatever you return and forced to create somehow seperated areas inside their vehicles to keep goods to be delivered apart from collected stuff to be "recycled" (which usually means landfilled anyway). Allegedly. Somehow.
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This may be really hard to grasp, but as the van does deliveries more space becomes available within the van itself! :eek:

I am led to believe you could use this space for all sorts - perhaps even the transportation of recycling
 
mattyprice4004 said:
This may be really hard to grasp, but as the van does deliveries more space becomes available within the van itself! :eek:

I am led to believe you could use this space for all sorts - perhaps even the transportation of recycling
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On what planet would that work? Is the van driver going to count everyone's plastic bottles and cans?

The statist apologists are taking mental gymnastics to a new level in order to attempt to defend every half baked government scheme that gets thought up.
 
Used to be kids hanging about the supermarket car park wanting to take your empty trolley so they could get the pound coin

Now you’re gonna get harassed if you’re seen drinking out a can/bottle...”is that can aboot empty mister?”

:p
 
mattyprice4004 said:
This may be really hard to grasp, but as the van does deliveries more space becomes available within the van itself! :eek:

I am led to believe you could use this space for all sorts - perhaps even the transportation of recycling
Click to expand...
I think the issue is that the bottles you're returning are now "dirty".

There tends to be a thing where it's frowned upon to put dirty/contaminated items in the same area as food is kept.

At the very least you're going to need specific bins that can be used either just for the dirty bottles, or you're going to need liners for the regular boxes and give the boxes a thorough cleaning afterwards (more than they do at the moment).
It would be interesting to see the health and safety rules and procedures the companies would have to comply with in order to be putting them in the food/general storage area of the trucks, as they'd have to allow for the idiots who leave a quarter of an inch of liquid in every bottle, which means you need boxes that can hold liquids (they don't at the moment because they don't dry as well when stacked).

If you do it for things like the plastic bottles that milk comes in you're really looking at it being nice to have in the van in warm weather.
 
mattyprice4004 said:
This may be really hard to grasp, but as the van does deliveries more space becomes available within the van itself! :eek:

I am led to believe you could use this space for all sorts - perhaps even the transportation of recycling
Click to expand...

This may be really hard to grasp, but a delivery vans is not a TARDIS and doesn't contain technology that can see forward in time. As a result, it's not possible to schedule deliveries to ensure that the amount delivered is greater than the amount collected. Even if it was, that would still be less efficient than curbside collection by councils.

Then, of course, there's the issue of carry used (and thus biologically contaminated) items in a van that delivers clean items. Especially food. Although I suppose it would be at least theoretically possible to reduce if a lot of plastic and strong cleaning chemicals are used, that's another environmental cost and it relies on a constant adherence to the higher standards. Also, it's not really possible because of the constant movement of stuff in and out of the van. Dirty containers left outdoors and containing dirty and contaminated waste would have to be mixed in with clean delivery containers.

One thing that really isn't hard to grasp despite some people pretending otherwise is that at best this system is a less efficient, more expensive and more environmentally damaging system than the one that's already in place. It's worse, not better. Unless the objective is to be seen to be doing something, regardless of what that something is.
 
Angilion said:
This reminds me of when I was a boy. Many bottles had a deposit on them and it was possible for a child to top up their pocket money by roaming around town collecting littered bottles and returning them for the deposit.
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Fringe benefit of this sort of scheme is it is incentivising people to clean up littered items, so even if the person who originally bought the item doesn't care about getting cashback, you get a second chance via kids etc.
 
mattyprice4004 said:
This may be really hard to grasp, but as the van does deliveries more space becomes available within the van itself! :eek:

I am led to believe you could use this space for all sorts - perhaps even the transportation of recycling
Click to expand...

Health and Safety nightmare, they won't be allowed to carry recycling alongside fresh shopping.
 
chrcoluk said:
Idea is only good in my view if can be recycled (with refund) without having to travel to a recycling place, bit unfriendly for disabled, non drivers, people far away from recycling bins etc. 20p on a plastic bottle of juice e.g. is a pretty hefty premium as well in terms of %. I wonder if this will get put in official inflation figures.

It should be tied in with delivery drivers collecting old bottles, like they used to do with bags.

I see alex touched on this as well here. I think this is as good as a stealth tax, the gov will know the majority wont be recycling at approved places for refunds.

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/forums/posts/34657550
Click to expand...

The way it works everywhere else in the world is that you buy your product, paying your deposit on the recyclable packaging.

Once you have consumed the contents then you return to the place you bought them, taking the empty packaging with you. You go to the special recycling counter and they then count your empty packaging and give you a voucher for the value of the recycled packaging. When you go back through the till after your next shop, you present this voucher and they deduct it from your charge at the till.

In places like Germany they have automated machines that can count the types of bottles in a crate and issue you an appropriate refund chitty. It's pretty smooth once you get the hang of it.
 
I can't see delivery drivers counting cans that's for sure. That's a no go.

Only way you could do curb side is with nfc tags where the bin men could scan a sack, at a an address , and credit that back.but again, that would need more than barcodes.


It probably will end up for most people as a stealth tax. But taxes will have to go up soon anyway.

It will however need infrastructure. Like many drop off points.
Really, I wouldn't be surprised if some people make a job out of it. 'I'll collect yours and give you 10p a can'. They get 20p. Who knows.

Still think it's a good thing
 
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