Siliconslave's how to make espresso thread

Irish_Tom · 27 Dec 2023 at 15:46

Grimley said:
No room in the Freezer. I don't like to freeze coffee anyway.

Fair enough. You’ll just have to drink more coffee.

Grimley · 27 Dec 2023 at 15:54

I made that mistake late on Xmas day, a Nespresso (How & why George Clooney drinks that, Nestle must pay him enough to drink it without him pulling a 'WTF, that's vile' face which I certainly did :rolleyes:

) then a espresso martini which my Nephew made, the Martini took the taste away.

As a result a rather sleepless night.

mad_allan · 1 Jan 2024 at 17:27

Treated myself to a Bianca, best decision I have made. Just waiting on the DF64 grinders to come in stock now at BB

Alex_L · 1 Jan 2024 at 21:49

mad_allan said:
Treated myself to a Bianca, best decision I have made. Just waiting on the DF64 grinders to come in stock now at BB

It’s a great machine. 3.5 years into mine (4000 shots) and cannot fault it. Beyond routine maintenance the only thing I’ve had to change are two safety valves which was a bit daunting a first but fairly straightforward once I watched a few YouTube videos.

I’ve a first gen DF64 and it’s a good partner with it - the newer ones look like they fix all the idiosyncrasies on mine. Enjoy it.

mad_allan · 2 Jan 2024 at 08:29

Alex_L said:
It’s a great machine. 3.5 years into mine (4000 shots) and cannot fault it. Beyond routine maintenance the only thing I’ve had to change are two safety valves which was a bit daunting a first but fairly straightforward once I watched a few YouTube videos.

I’ve a first gen DF64 and it’s a good partner with it - the newer ones look like they fix all the idiosyncrasies on mine. Enjoy it.

Yeah the v2 is supposed to have fixed the little things, fingers crossed. Popping into BB today so will see if they have had a shipment yet

mid_gen · 2 Jan 2024 at 08:42

mad_allan said:
Treated myself to a Bianca, best decision I have made. Just waiting on the DF64 grinders to come in stock now at BB

Very nice. I bought a Mara during lock down 1 and it's been used every day since, great bit of kit. I bought the walnut knobs and portafilter from the Bianca to jazz it up.

mad_allan · 2 Jan 2024 at 09:04

I was a toss up between the mara and the Elizabeth during lockdown 1 and went with the Liz.

Bet the Mara looks good with the walnut kit!

Robi · 2 Jan 2024 at 21:45

I've had a Sage Barista Express for well over a year now and I'm still using all the accessories that came with it.

If I was looking to improve my setup, what should I look to buy? Better tamper? Coffee distributor/comb? Filter screen?

Any recommendations would be great!

gazref · 2 Jan 2024 at 21:51

Filter screen nope, waste of money.
Spinny puck thing nope.
A puck rake yes (you can home make with 0.3mm/0.4mm acupuncture needles)
If your technique is off a level tamper but the one extra tool that will actually benefit will be the rake

jpaul · 2 Jan 2024 at 22:15

Robi said:
If I was looking to improve my setup

have you applied the stepless mod on the grinder .. least ways for a rancilio grinder a similar modification was revelatory , discrete steps had used to change the extraction time by 10s+

Alex_L said:
It’s a great machine. 3.5 years into mine (4000 shots) and cannot fault it. Beyond routine maintenance the only thing I’ve had to change are two safety valves which was a bit daunting a first but fairly straightforward once I watched a few YouTube videos.

whose water have you used ? - or adam's ales ok in your region.

Kainz · 2 Jan 2024 at 22:25

Got my Sage Bambino Plus coming this week it seems but I’m no where near ready in terms of equipment.

I can’t make up my mind regarding a grinder - Manual or Electric as I have a budget of £300 tops. Counter space is limited in the kitchen so I haven’t much space to work with in the first place.

The Fellow Opus is quite new so unproven just yet. The Baratza Encore ESP is out of stock at Coffeehit and I’m not 100% sold on the Baratza Sette 270. Every grinder seems to have various issues, retention etc.

So having said that I’m wondering if a manual grinder would suffice my needs. I should have just stuck to my bean to cup and stop watching James YT vids!

tom_nieto · 2 Jan 2024 at 22:33

Cant really hold a candle to some of the setups in here, but I think I’ve reached peak espresso in our household (without significant further investment). Can really appreciate the differences in beans now.

Delonghi EC685 and Melita Calibra with a new bottomless portafilter. Had the Delonghi for some time now, but definitely seeing the best out of it now.

Edit - delighted with the grinder as it’s a small footprint, accurate and takes no time at all compared to my manual grinder!

Robi · 2 Jan 2024 at 22:38

gazref said:
Filter screen nope, waste of money.
Spinny puck thing nope.
A puck rake yes (you can home make with 0.3mm/0.4mm acupuncture needles)
If your technique is off a level tamper but the one extra tool that will actually benefit will be the rake

I'll have look at the puck rake and level tamper.

Any websites/brands worth looking at or should I just go with something highly rated on Amazon?

jpaul said:
have you applied the stepless mod on the grinder .. least ways for a rancilio grinder a similar modification was revelatory , discrete steps had used to change the extraction time by 10s+

Not that specific mod, but I did mod the grinder to allow it to grind finer (forget what the mod was called now).

Alex_L · 2 Jan 2024 at 23:23

jpaul said:
whose water have you used ? - or adam's ales ok in your region.

Osmio zero water from new so just bad luck on the valve front. I mis-remembered though - I switched both safety valves on the service boiler but only one actually was leaking. Bella barista misdiagnosed my issue at first which led to a needless valve change. My experience of their support is so-so e.g. no guidance on valve changing and the part was out of stock and they had no idea when it would be back - cue me having to ship one from Italy which with Brexit was a right faff.

Robi said:
I'll have look at the puck rake and level tamper.

Any websites/brands worth looking at or should I just go with something highly rated on Amazon?

Not that specific mod, but I did mod the grinder to allow it to grind finer (forget what the mod was called now).

Puck rake / WDT tool - I’d just go with a 3d printed one for a tenner. Key thing are the needles, thinner are better at breaking the clumps up

tom_nieto · 3 Jan 2024 at 00:06

The rabbit hole deepens and I now realise that I need a dosing funnel to avoid spooning out the grinds from the scales on my grinder. That and a rake and we’re getting there!

Now that I’ve got a bottomless portafilter - how hard should I be tamping? I’m really putting my shoulder into it to get a well formed puck at the end of it. Seems to be getting more out of the coffee too without bitterness, so I’m taking it as a win for the portafilter and the finer grind that I can now use compared to the double layer standard one.

jpaul · 3 Jan 2024 at 08:30

Alex_L said:
Osmio zero water from new so just bad luck on the valve front

interesting - I use brita for tea, but would not be able to provide, probably 2L a day cost-efficiently/conveniently for espresso machine.
(usually burn water for heating cups and flushes as bezerra is an hx)
my concern on house wide mains input softeners is that, in comparison, they wouldn't provide acceptable taste for espresso, my top priority

gazref · 3 Jan 2024 at 10:29

tom_nieto said:
The rabbit hole deepens and I now realise that I need a dosing funnel to avoid spooning out the grinds from the scales on my grinder. That and a rake and we’re getting there!

Now that I’ve got a bottomless portafilter - how hard should I be tamping? I’m really putting my shoulder into it to get a well formed puck at the end of it. Seems to be getting more out of the coffee too without bitterness, so I’m taking it as a win for the portafilter and the finer grind that I can now use compared to the double layer standard one.

How hard you tamp isn't that important. 9 bar of pressure will compress the puck way more than you can tamping. Back in the day I've had those clicky pressure Tamps and I used to practice on scales to get a feel for what 30lbs is and imo it's just not that important.

If you think you'd get RSI tamping 50 shots a day for a week then you're going way too ott. Just push till it stops giving way and you're set.

Siliconslave · 3 Jan 2024 at 13:49

The big things that help your espresso are:

Bean and roast quality (partly down to taste)
grinder quality - more even particles means less over and under extracted stuff
machine quality - consistent temperature and pressure mean you can make adjustments to the grind level to get the right level of extraction
Bean & puck prep
- Spritz the beans with water to minimise static
- WTD (stir the grinds with one or more needles) to get rid of lumps and even out the distribution
- tamp to pre-compress and level out the grinds - gives more even extraction across the puck (so the water flows more evenly through) - as mentioned before the most important thing is its level, not exactly how hard you compress.
- puck screens or paper above and below also help even out extraction

Beyond the above your into the more experimental stuff like pouring over frozen balls to manage the volatile compounds but your into diminishing returns around the puck screen phase imho.

Alex_L · 3 Jan 2024 at 16:14

jpaul said:
interesting - I use brita for tea, but would not be able to provide, probably 2L a day cost-efficiently/conveniently for espresso machine.
(usually burn water for heating cups and flushes as bezerra is an hx)
my concern on house wide mains input softeners is that, in comparison, they wouldn't provide acceptable taste for espresso, my top priority

So we have a salt based house softener as we’re in London and the waters awful from a scale perspective. I feed the softened water to the Lelit via the osmio RO system as softened water is easier for a reverse osmosis system to filter. Net result is 30-50ppm water that doesn’t scale the Lelit. The osmio does remineralise the water and the coffee (to the 30-50ppm) tastes great to me. I have previously faffed about with distilled water and third wave sachets but decided the taste benefits weren’t high enough to continue given the cost and faff.

Personally wouldn’t be without the osmio now. It’s replaced our kettle and we use it for all our drinking water hot or room temp.

tom_nieto · 3 Jan 2024 at 20:04

Siliconslave said:
The big things that help your espresso are:

Bean and roast quality (partly down to taste)

grinder quality - more even particles means less over and under extracted stuff

machine quality - consistent temperature and pressure mean you can make adjustments to the grind level to get the right level of extraction

Bean & puck prep

Spritz the beans with water to minimise static

WTD (stir the grinds with one or more needles) to get rid of lumps and even out the distribution

tamp to pre-compress and level out the grinds - gives more even extraction across the puck (so the water flows more evenly through) - as mentioned before the most important thing is its level, not exactly how hard you compress.

puck screens or paper above and below also help even out extraction.

Thank you for the detailed reply. Machine and grinder quality are pretty fixed at this point and I think I’m at a point where I can work out which beans I like the taste of. Enjoying Chatswood blend from Rave and a random one I picked up from London called “for the good of the people”

Further to your advice - when would you advise spritzing the beans? Just before putting them through the grinder? Worried that any moisture on the beans might affect the grind.

Will have a go with lighter pressure tamping and concentrating on a level puck. I’ll look into a puck rake as it makes sense to me why you’d want to even things out. Maybe in the fullness of time a self level tamper might be a good investment.

Food for thought! Still quite impressed at how much my espresso has come on since getting the machine all those years ago!