Singapore Grand Prix 2013, Marina Bay - Race 13/19

That's what they did mid-season. Before the tyre change, RBR were on par with Lotus and Ferrari. Once the durable tyres came in, RBR were in a different league.

Think of it this way, in today's race, if tyres were more durable, Vettel would've continued lapping 2s/lap faster than everybody. Would like to see this?

Why do you keep saying this, the RBR was not even close to on par with the Lotus and Ferrari.

Vettel has dominated all year, there are tracks that suit the car and ones that suit others. EXACTLY like last year the Lotus is a very up and down car the best spell Kimi had last year was 3 podiums in a row, his one win came out of the blue. In the last 8 races he won the one race and didn't finish higher than 5th in the other 7. Was that because of some tyre change, or a car that is great on only a minority of tracks throughout the year and a bit crap on others?

This year Kimi up to the tyre change had a 7th, 10th, 9th and 5th. Since then he has finished one race above 3rd place(and had one stupid failure thanks to a piece of plastic). In what way was the Lotus brilliant and competitive before the change and rubbish since? In that before the tyre change he had 4 podiums in 8 races, or that he has had 3 podiums in 4 races(excluding the retirement) since the tyres changed and that he came second in the first race with the new tyres?

Look up last years and this years results. Kimi did great in Spain, sucked in Monaco, Canada, great back in Spain, meh at Silvertone, great in Germany and Hungary... what did he do this year, great in Spain, crap in Monaco, Canada, Silverstone(in those three races it was 10th/9th/5th one year and 9th/8th/5th the other year....) then great in Germany/Hungary again(3rd/2nd last year, this year 2nd/2nd... so improved.....

Should we do Alonso, before the tyre change two wins, but also an 8th and a 7th, since the change, no lower than 5th and that was in the first race on new tyres, three second places since then on the new tyres... definitely not working for him at all.


The tyre change has changed pretty much nothing. Hamilton didn't suddenly get good in Hungary and Ferrari/Lotus weren't by any stretch of the imagination on par with Red Bull before the change, only in dream land.


In terms of being on the limit and engines being a limit of tyres are.... thats fine. Engines can blow, the cars are designed by the team, we want to see what the TEAMS can do, not what Pirelli can do. It's F1, not the Pirelli championship. We WANT to see guys push the limit on the cars, on the track, on the engines. THe season would be vastly more exciting if Vettel could be put under pressure in some races, cruise in others, and fail in others due to having to go a bit faster. When the car and engine are on the limit the drivers can be too, they'll take corners faster, brake later, overtake on corners, not screw their entire stint by going onto the marbles. We'll see real driving, not "cruising", and we'd likely see more failures and less predictability which is all good for the sport.

One of the reasons DRS has become so important is because of the tyres, diving late into a corner and locking your tyres does more harm than good, but doing a great overtake in a corner is where the real racing used to happen. A better driver could judge braking zones, limits and take a different line better. Now you both have marbles off line so less grip and locking up can ruin an entire stint rather than one corner.
 
A new all time low for the sport, the stewards are constantly getting things wrong now, penalties when none are required for on track incidents, no penalties when there should have been, and now this with Webber. The one bloody time that something happens that puts a smile on most F1 fans across the world's faces and they wipe that smile off with a kick to the teeth.
I do love F1, but the stewards decisions over the last few years have been really hard to swallow and they should all be fined with bringing the sport into disrepute if you ask me.
 
They didn't penalise it with a grid penalty, they penalised it with a reprimand which is perfectly fair imo, it's Webbers fault he already had 2 reprimands and hence gets the grid penalty.
 
Im no fan of the penalty either. But...

I think because Webber was already reprimanded its made this incident more worse than it should be.

Had it been his first reprimand, no one would have said anything more on the subject.

I think the stewards made the absolutely right decision. If they had kept quiet about it, it would have set a precident for others to do the same.

Yes its nice to see this kind of comaraderie as it was in the past (Senna/Mansell), but that was not at a time when a team of a fizzy energy drink company is dominating other pedigree teams who have been in this sport for decades.

I.e. times change.
 
Concerning Seb Vettel and the booing.

2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004

Schumacher won each of those WDCs, and I could not recall one boo at him during those seasons (apart from events like Austria and Indy - Im sure there maybe one or two others that I cannot recall).

But the point is despite his domination, I dont think he was hated for it.

Now Horner says that the fans should not boo Seb for dominating.

Thing is, are they booing him for dominating? Or are they booing him for being Seb Vettel?
 
Should we do Alonso, before the tyre change two wins, but also an 8th and a 7th, since the change, no lower than 5th and that was in the first race on new tyres, three second places since then on the new tyres... definitely not working for him at all.

Suppose you could forget he was 8th due to his DRS breaking and having to pit twice to fix it and then not being able to use it all race, otherwise he would have been fighting for the win.

All the talk prior to the tyre change was Pirelli saying they can change them and Red Bull will dominate again, they did change them and Pirelli were right what would happen. Is the racing better now than it was at Spain? not a chance but the whingers on forums and certain teams got their way and we have what we have now.
 
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Suppose you could forget he was 8th due to his DRS breaking and having to pit twice to fix it and then not being able to use it all race, otherwise he would have been fighting for the win.

All the talk prior to the tyre change was Pirelli saying they can change them and Red Bull will dominate again, they did change them and Pirelli were right what would happen. Is the racing better now than it was at Spain? not a chance but the whingers on forums and certain teams got their way and we have what we have now.

Did Pirelli really say that the change will benefit Red Bull?
Or was it just "whispers"?
Any sauce?

And I think your last sentance surmised the reality of the second half of this F1 season nicely.
 
Thing is, are they booing him for dominating? Or are they booing him for being Seb Vettel?

I think it's a bit of both... and the fact that they keep making a big deal of it and Vettel doesn't take it too well.

For a lot of people it'll be done in fun, Vettel is the pantomime bad guy at the moment, it's not nice and it is disrespectful but I don't think everyone doing it is doing so maliciously.
 
http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/formula-1-red-bull-benefit-pirelli-tyre-changes-201304076.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/todd-mccandless/formula-one-pirelli_b_3264419.html

"It's rather bizarre," Hembery added: "We're only doing what we've done for the last two years and we don't understand why you're [the press] so excited.

"Unless you all want us to give Red Bull the tyres to win the championship. It's pretty clear. If we did that, there would be one team that would benefit and it would be them.

"You have to bear in mind, if we make a change, we have a lot of teams who would be against it and one maybe for," he added.

"I know if we make a change, I am going to have the podium people today in Spain aren't going to be happy and then you're going to be at Silverstone telling me we have given the championship to Red Bull. It's damned if you do, damned if you don't."
 
Thing is, are they booing him for dominating? Or are they booing him for being Seb Vettel?

Schumacher was likeable. He didn't have irritating gimmicks like waving his finger about or crying on the team radio when everything doesn't go his way.

Vettel is just a spoilt kid and everyone hates him for it. The domination is annoying somewhat, but with F1 being down to probably 80% car, 20% driver, he seems really cocky.
 
Schumacher was likeable. He didn't have irritating gimmicks like waving his finger about or crying on the team radio when everything doesn't go his way.

Vettel is just a spoilt kid and everyone hates him for it. The domination is annoying somewhat, but with F1 being down to probably 80% car, 20% driver, he seems really cocky.

All valid comments.

So I guess the above + the Multi21 episode, has answered that question!
 
Hmm, I wouldve thought not, but after thinking about it a little more, you could be right Orch.

I think so (well I would wouldn't I :D )

No matter who you follow/support, Webber is a well respected and well liked driver by almost everyone I'd say.

F1 also has a history of great sportsmanship (yes some dirty as well clearly). The images of people getting lifts back to the paddock, that dark dark day of the driver trying to rescue his friend from a burning car etc etc. To see Seb completely **** on webber like he did, despite orders to the contrary left a sour taste in everyone mouths. At that moment he considered himself more important than his team mate, his boss, the whole company, it was all about him.

F1 fans do not tolerate such behavour. I'm a good example, I was never a fan (like my missus is) but thought Seb was a good guy. Not now. Not after that.

Him winning a lot is dull and frustrating, but it was that action that slipped him into the pantomime baddy role.
 
That said, although I don't feel sorry for him, he only has himself to blame afterall, I certainly wouldn't boo. It's disrespectful and I don't really like it.
 
Schumacher was likeable. He didn't have irritating gimmicks like waving his finger about or crying on the team radio when everything doesn't go his way.

Vettel is just a spoilt kid and everyone hates him for it. The domination is annoying somewhat, but with F1 being down to probably 80% car, 20% driver, he seems really cocky.
LOL! Err, no he wasn't... not after his blatant cheating driving into the side of people to put them out of races.
 
Schumacher was likeable.

You could have fooled me. Schumi was arrogance personified, and had controversial and unsporting moments that were far worse than multi21.

He was, however, undisputably the best driver in F1 during his dominance, while during Vettel's dominance the popular opinion is that he is somewhere between 2nd-4th best of the current field. Not many at all rate him higher than Alonso, some rate him above Lewis, some rate him below Kimi. Maybe that's why they boo him?
 
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