Sir Alex Ferguson Retires

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Supporters are loyal to one club (well apart from G|mp) its not that hard to understand why they hope players/managers feel the same. It's blind hope obviously but whatever :p

Why are players expected to be loyal? They don't even necessarily support the club they play for or came through the youth system at, they are emplyed by the club, their loyalty only lasts until they stop being paid.

Fans, I get, they support their club whatever but I don't understand why not being loyal is a stick to beat players with.
 
:confused:

'So err he couldn't have done better because there were some better sides?'

Nonense, Ferguson had some amazing resources available to him and should have done better in Europe. I personally think that in private is the only regret he will ever have at Manchester United, he didn't equal Liverpool's European record.

I think that winning two European titles with the same club is a pretty impressive achievement, personally.

Ferguson is unfortunate in that his strongest Utd side came to fruition when the Barca team of the late noughties did the same, and that is the team that many people say is the best that has ever existed. He lost two finals to them, which implies that if the best team ever to exist did not, he would have won more.

I take your point that he can and should ultimately only ever be judged on results, but you've got to look a the circumstances to a degree, at least.

Take tennis, for instance. Greg Rusedski got to the finals of the US Open in 1997 (and won SPOTY that year!). Why? Because the field was incredibly, ridiculously weak. If he was playing now he'd struggle to get beyond the first couple of rounds. It doesn't mean that he would be a worse player now, simply that what would be around him would be stronger. From that perspective, achievements need to be judged in context.

e: The thing is, I'm not necessarily advocating Ferguson as the best ever. He was lucky, at least in part, to have such an incredible crop of young, "free" players come through so early in his time at Utd, which meant he could start winning without spending, and build a bit of a war chest. But I think that his European record is better than he is given credit for, even if he let himself down at times.
 
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I would agree that two European titles is impressive, however when you take in to account that's for the club at the top of British football and over 26/27 years it's a less impressive achievement.

Manchester United or rather Ferguson has just been found out in Europe more often than not. As I say, I think even Sir Alex himself would in private admit that he didn't do well enough in Europe.

None of this is here to belittle his domestic achievement, which is hugely successful, but I think more should have been expected in Europe.
 
Nobody can definitively say x, y or z is the greatest manager of all time. There are and have been plenty of great managers over the years and each one has worked under different circumstances, with different resources and achieved different things, making the decision as to who's the greatest hugely subjective.

Mourinho may go on to win more European Cups than Paisley and more trophies in total than Fergie, would that make him the greatest? Paisley only became a manager when he was 55 (5 years older than Mourinho is now) and only managed for 9 years before he retired but in those 9 years he won 6 League titles, 3 European Cups and 11 other trophies. But then again, he inherited a Liverpool side that had probably just about established itself as the best side in England. Re Fergie: Rodgers made a point in his press-conference when talking about Fergie (and Moyes) - he hasn't just built a side and won trophies, he's built/rebuilt Man Utd football club as a whole which is an achievement in itself. The reason why I'm not and never have been a big Mourinho fan is because he doesn't give a **** about the clubs he manages. He, like Hodgson and Redknapp, are short-term managers that are only interested in their self and make decisions geared towards their short-term benefit, not the long-term future of the club. But as above, he could very possibly win more than anybody else.

Fergie is without doubt one of the great managers of all time. He rebuilt Utd and dominated English football for a long time. Given his resources and the time he's been at Utd could he have won more (particularly in Europe)?Possibly but then again he could have won less too.
 
The European game evolved with a focus on midfield/pressing, and Fergie has unfortunately stuck to his 4-4-2 style counter attacking, leaving us without the ball in a lot of European games.

We also haven't coped well with teams pressing us. That's his only real flaw, he's nailed everything else.
 
I would agree that two European titles is impressive, however when you take in to account that's for the club at the top of British football and over 26/27 years it's a less impressive achievement.

Its really not as black and white as that though, firstly we've only been 'at the top' during the PL era so that's then 21 years, at the start of that period there was the foreigner rule in Europe which wasn't removed until 96 IIRC and then 3 years after that we did win it.

What I would say is it probably took Fergie till 2006/2007 to really master Europe and its that that doesn't reflect well on him imo as prior to that period we'd go into European ties and try to outscored the opposition, around 2006/2007 though we'd go away from home in Europe and come away with quite a few priceless 1-0 wins ergo the cliche of a 'good away European performance' and then just as it looked like he'd got it sorted we went and lost Ronaldo and you can see how over reliant Madrid and Barca are on him and Messi so loosing a player like that was always going to be a huge blow for us.

I know that will sound like a lot of excuses and don't think for a second I'm saying Fergie hasn't made mistakes himself (selling Beckham and Veron when he did in 2003, rotating the team far too much last season are two of the most obvious) but its not as simple as saying we've been at the top for 26 years so should have won it x amount of times. There was even a 3 year period between 03/04 and 05/06 where we weren't much kop at all even domestically (this period best known as the Djemba-Djemba period)
 
We didn't win enough European titles its true bit he nearly fixed that. We lost 2 finals did we not to the best team ever (possibly).

The one that got away was Porto and maybe when we got dumped out by Leverkusen
 
Tummy just doesn't like the fact that Fergie didn't play Tika-Taka :p

I have no problem with how Manchester United play, granted it's not been great this season :p.

The days of Man Utd being Tummy's 'second' team are well and truly over.

I would put money on me going to watch them more than many of the Manchester United posters on here still :p.

Remember when he said he'd rather lose a CL final unless his team could win it by playing beautiful football. :p

I wouldn't want to win playing ugly, negative football. Nothing has changed.

Being a Sheffield Wednesday season ticket holder, I'm a bloody expert on ugly negative football, espeically under Megson :p.
 
Thank you Sir Alex Ferguson.

All I want to see from Moyes at UTD is playing a more consistent team and formation with players playing in their right position. God knows how SAF managed to play roulette with his team and get away with it.

When Jones is playing higher up the pitch than Rooney then there is something wrong. Carrick needs help in the midfield and RVP cannot score all the goals on his own.

This team won't happen but I think a team as strong as this is the only way forward for Moyes and to be able to compete in Europe and against City/Chelsea. Chelsea have made UTD look like a complete shambles this season. This needs sorting out.

..............De Gea..............
Raf---Evans---Garay-----Bains
-------Carrick---Felliani-----
Kagawa-----RVP-------Bale ;)
--------Lewandowski---------

Can only dream but if we get at least one of those players then Moyes is going in the right direction.
 
hope moyes plays hernandez more the guy has a class attitude cant say the same about rooney!

I reckon we'll see a lot and I mean a lot of Welbeck up front next season, in fact it was only the other week (possibly the derby) that I thought to myself about how well Welbeck would probably do for Moyes' Everton side...
 
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