Associate
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It does when England has 90% of the MPs in the UK parliament.
SNP to break up Britian?
- Thread starter jsmoke
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It does when England has 90% of the MPs in the UK parliament.
Soldato
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No of course they don't, and taking it as some kind of sweeping statement is ridiculous.
There's a vast quantity of scots that think its stupid, but there are some that support the idea, otherwise it wouldn't have the motion to have become this well publicised.
kd
Soldato
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Just give up Socrates. Your personal ignorance of the issues you lecture on are are obvious.
my argument right now is not with either side of the independence debate but with people that behave like you.
who the hell really knows what independence, if it happens, will bring but one thing must stop. the excuses.
if Scotland today manages so much of its own affairs and the Scotland bill was on the cards to hand over increased tax powers then blaming Westminster must stop.
you want talk about war? i'm with you. you want to talk about taxation? fine
but you and your ilk don't get to blame Westminster or tell each other that life will be magically better without justifying it.
Soldato
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I'd be careful what you wish for. Norway style welfare and progressive center right governments in the rest of the UK could mean Scottish city's are awash English down-and-outs rather than the other way round
And that's before you consider the deluge of English and Welsh students taking up your "free" university places before popping back to London to earn a living.
Socrates470BC might as well march down to the polling station with his face painted blue, wearing a kilt and shouting "freedom" every 2 minutes....
The cynic in me says they put Braveheart on the TV the previous night
Until Salmond shows us the figures, and I mean the actual costings i.e. income/expenditure for his little fancy, then it's a silly idea.
The cynic in me says they put Braveheart on the TV the previous night
Until Salmond shows us the figures, and I mean the actual costings i.e. income/expenditure for his little fancy, then it's a silly idea.
I'd be careful what you wish for. Norway style welfare and progressive center right governments in the rest of the UK could mean Scottish city's are awash English down-and-outs rather than the other way round
And that's before you consider the deluge of English and Welsh students taking up your "free" university places.
True, but the last point is only valid if Scotland stays in the EU. Still, from what I'm seeing Norway is doing very well. I'd live there if I could.
Associate
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Soldato
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i'd be more interested in the details.
Norway has an economy proportional to Englands without the weight of the union on it's back + the oil but scotland has an economy that requires 23.9% of it's economy to come from oil to keep pace with rUK.
I think we're mostly aware that Scotland pretty much single handedly got the industrial revolution up and running, and have done a LOT for the world for a tiny country.
But what has this got to do with the here and now?
But what has this got to do with the here and now?
As far as I'm aware, most of Norway's success comes from it's oil... which should be the same for Scotland.
Salmond's plan would be to unite with Norway and share a lot of resources/wealth, or so I hear.
Soldato
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then you are not aware of much.
to say that about Norway is an insult. they have a varied, modern economy and are able to create a wealth fund from the additional funds of the oil.
They are idiots yet your reason for voting against independence based on the leader of one party is a very simplistic way of voting for your country's future.
Once independence is gained you can go back to voting for someone else since the SNP's raison d'être will no longer exist therefore the party will have to either change or die.
Associate
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Socrates470BC might as well march down to the polling station with his face painted blue, wearing a kilt and shouting "freedom" every 2 minutes....
The cynic in me says they put Braveheart on the TV the previous night
Until Salmond shows us the figures, and I mean the actual costings i.e. income/expenditure for his little fancy, then it's a silly idea.
As of Q1 2012 the UK national debt is £1,278.2 Billion. (86.8%) of total GDP. The cost of servicing this debt is £43 Billion per annum (3% of GDP)
These are the current figures.
You want to tell people that it is right that the UK can be this much in debt, but that Scotland must publish figures showing that it will have no debt if you are to agree to Scottish proposals for independance. Really?
Those who argue against independance use the age old weapons of Fear, Uncertainty an Doubt. FUD to fudge the issue and derail any opposition to the status quo.
People tell us that we will not be able to watch the BBC. We pay our share of the BBC license fee.
The people of Scotland are given misinformation on independance every day.
Still none has picked up the challenge and dealt with the injustices Scotland has suffered over the centuries.
No one even wanted to deal with the injustices dealt to the people of Liverpool.
I think you may need to go back and read some history. Scotland's input to the industrial revolution is, without doubt, vital, but to say it was "pretty much single handedly" Scottish is frankly rubbish. Arkwright, Compton, Samuels, Trevithick were all English for example.
Im confused... Scotland is joined to england, its a very small island..
they speak english with an accent.. same as over 80% of places in england have varied accents....
Tbh they are as British as i am... and i speak like the queen
they should not be independent...
they speak english with an accent.. same as over 80% of places in england have varied accents....
Tbh they are as British as i am... and i speak like the queen
they should not be independent...
Norway's social differences to the UK and Scotland are massive, their entire approach of how things work would be completely alien to us here. This can be highlighted by the prison sentence handed to Breivik, 21 years for everything that he did because Norway admirably believes in rehabilitation, a sentence like that here would cause massive outcry and would lose the government in power the next election.
The Scandinavian mindset of survival in both literal and economic senses is again, to be admired, they do not expect the state to help them when they are perfectly capable themselves, I cannot see that transferring to a country that's been staunchly Labour.
There's also the tax aspect, Scotland would not bring in external investment with the rUK sat a few hundred miles south which would be able to offer lower costs across the board. Would the 'average Scot' be willing to have himself taxed at such a level?
The Scandinavian mindset of survival in both literal and economic senses is again, to be admired, they do not expect the state to help them when they are perfectly capable themselves, I cannot see that transferring to a country that's been staunchly Labour.
There's also the tax aspect, Scotland would not bring in external investment with the rUK sat a few hundred miles south which would be able to offer lower costs across the board. Would the 'average Scot' be willing to have himself taxed at such a level?
You what?
Did I say at any point I want the figures and they had better show Scotland in the black or it's a no go? ANY figures would be a start from the SNP.
Take your blue and white Saltire blinkers off and read people's posts properly.
I don't do much research into it. I just hear this from Norwegians haha.
Associate
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Did I say that Scotland would be better off.
What I do know is that a country does better if it has its own descision making powers. This is borne out if you have visited Ediburgh since the Scottish parliament opened.
The figures and benefits of Scottish Oil have been fudged since the 1960s when we were told by the westminster government that the oil would last only 10 years.
Scotland already has a government budget. Check it out for yourself.
Also note that even with proportional representation the SNP got elected by more than 50% of the population. All of those people may not want independance but they do recognise that the SNP will do more for them than a London based party.
The extra concessions made to Scotland since devolution have shown that a stronger political voice has its benefits. Many people outside Scotland appear to resent this.
It is right for Scottish politicians to represent the people of Scotland to the best of their ability.