Soldato
I have an old 2015 Solaredge inverter, will it still work with that - if so have you got a link to how to set it up please? Presume the API pulls the info from SolarEdge web portal.
Solar panels and battery - any real world reccomendations?
- Thread starter GinG
- Start date
Soldato
@refist Just been looking for that, I've got no options for admin or site access, only settings option I have is "User Settings" if I click my name at the top right, user settings just allows me to change basic stuff such as my name, contact details and password, also display units type, nothing else. This was all set up by my installer many years ago. Any suggestions?
Soldato
The basic defaults some of the vendors offer especially with this cloud coontrolled data is poor. I was going to inctercept the traffic but its not a great use of time so I have almost got the API access from the inverter maker and will see if I can automate some of the useful data and break out one of my Pi's.
Soldato
Yes it frustrates me, its my data and I want full access - I've emailed my installer, if I don't hear anything I'll have to email SolarEdge Support.
Soldato
how do you do that - i got a growatt, what do i need to do to get the data automatically sent to PVoutput
When I look at the webpage there’s three main options to the left, dashboard, layout and admin. Maybe back the the old days installers weren’t thinking people would want access to smart things like these. Hopefully either the installer or solaredge can help.
Hopefully just set it up on thier website, doing a quick Google and they do have a api which you should be able to use. Within the pvoutput under settings there is options to have the key there.
Soldato
where do i get that from??? im not good at this automating stuff
Soldato
Have a read through this, hopefully it will help - it shouldn't matter if your inverter is different - the API accesses the data that is uploaded to Growatt.
Help Required Uploading Growatt Inverter To PVOutput
I’ve recently had a Growatt 1500-S inverter installed and would like to upload the data to PVOutput. The inverter is “on-line” via an Ethernet dongle (ShineLAN) and is uploading 5 minute data to the Growatt cloud monitoring service Shine Server (https://server.growatt.com/). I see that there is...
forum.pvoutput.org
Last edited:
Or try to give the tech support a call.
unit 1, The Cromwell Centre, Hainault Business Park, Roebuck Rd, Ilford IG6 3UG
Growatt New Energy Technology Limited
[email protected] (sales)/[email protected] (service)
07955405063/07384028681unit 1, The Cromwell Centre, Hainault Business Park, Roebuck Rd, Ilford IG6 3UG
Soldato
sorry ron - all gobbly gook to me.....i will upload manually lolHave a read through this, hopefully it will help - it shouldn't matter if your inverter is different - the API accesses the data that is uploaded to Growatt.
Help Required Uploading Growatt Inverter To PVOutput
I’ve recently had a Growatt 1500-S inverter installed and would like to upload the data to PVOutput. The inverter is “on-line” via an Ethernet dongle (ShineLAN) and is uploading 5 minute data to the Growatt cloud monitoring service Shine Server (https://server.growatt.com/). I see that there is...
Soldato
Try @redfist suggestion then.
Soldato
Well that was quick, installer replied at 13:22, just had an email from SolarEdge and I can now access the admin section and get an API key
So I will be joining the team on PV Output over the weekend.
Associate
My solar Journey
This post is designed to help newbies and people who have solar already installed. Allowances should be made for location, orientation and shading.
In October 2011 we had a 4kw system installed on a south facing unshahded roof in the PO9 area. We joined the FIT scheme. The primary purpose was enviromental. We bought the best panels available at the time which were 235 Sanyo HIT, 17 in all. They have since been rebranded Panasonic. The extra cost was £3k above the standard panels at that time.
In the first 10 years our panels had produced 43,650kw. In January 2021 the 4th cable bringing the UK electricity from the continent went "live". In enviromental terms we had completely failed to invest for our children's future so I decided to go all out for solar. During the summer we bought an EV and in September we installed a further 10.4KW of solar panels. 4.8kw was on our East roof and the 5.6kw was on the south roof. I also bought a second Aurora inverter for our original system second hand on ebay. This was identical to our existing one. Our original one was fine but at £125 it seemed like a good idea as the MEL (Minimum Expected Life) of an inverter is 10-15 years.
For anyone in a similar position I would recommend replacing their existing inverter with a Hybrid model. This is more expensive but will enable a battery back up to be fitted at the same time or later. If you can install more panels then taking a system up from 4kw is a good idea............but don't go mad as I did
Here are the results from the 1st year of the new system and 11th year from the start.
The spreadsheet was adapted from just the original panels to include our new ones which are Hyundai. Highest daily output was 87kw.
Here is a piece I produced to help people local to me.
We installed a 4kw system in October 2011 on our south roof where there is very little shade. We joined the FIT (Feed in tariff) scheme. After exactly 10 years we had generated 43650kw with a yearly low of 4104 and a high of 4528. In September 2021 we installed a further 10.4kw of new panels giving us a total of 14.4kw. 4.8kw is on our east roof with 5.6kw on the south roof. In addition we have 4 x 6.5kw of battery storage
Inescapable facts
Good quality panels on a south facing roof will produce over 1000kw/year per 1kw installed capacity
70% of solar production (with a variation of no more than 1% each way) will be produced between the spring and autumn equinoxes.
The cheapest item to buy and the most expensive to fit are the panels. Fitting as many high efficiency panels as possible is an absolute must. It is virtually unknown for panels to fail.
1kw of installed capacity will take up approximately 5 square metres on a roof. If panels you look at do not have a output of 1kw in less than 5 square metres, then find some which do.
Helpful Info
Inverters
Standard Inverters use the energy from the solar panels to produce AC current. When the panels are producing more electricity than you are using, this is exported to the grid. When you are not producing enough electricity ,you will be buying the difference between what you need and what the solar panels give you. Typically you will use about 20-25% of your output but this can be higher/lower.
Hybrid Inverters are designed to be used with storage batteries. They convert Solar energy into AC but will also charge up batteries with any surplus and draw down current when needed. This will significantly increase the amount you use of your solar generation. Hybrid inverters have 2 crucial figures. There is the max input from the solar panels and the max charge/discharge to the battery.
Batteries
Key to a long life for a battery is the BMS (Battery Management System). Nearly all of these will stop any discharging once the 10% is reached to preserve the battery longevity. They will also reduce the charging rate once the battery reaches about 80%. My Hybrid Inverter is capable of charging/discharging 6kw. Each battery is able to be charged/discharged at 3kw. If the batteries need charging, and my solar panels are producing 8kw, then 2kw will be sent to the grid.
Most systems tend to come in at a max of 7-8kw for a variety of reasons. At this level, sensible battery storage would be 7-12kw.
My view is that the maximum output is not as important as minimum output/efficiency.
Our use can be split approximately
Hot water for 3 showers/day 1800kw/year
7500 miles in our electric car @ 5 miles per kwh 1500kw/year
Kettle oven Microwave 800kw/year
Washing machine and dishwasher 500kw/year
Everything else 1500kw/year
In December we will only produce about 300kw and it is when we use most electricity, so our actual savings are lower than the figures above. Production peaked at 1988kw in July. As our electric production drops we switch our hot water back to gas as it is cheaper.
We export over 2/3rds of our output to the grid.
Payback
Our output this year has exceeded our target of 14,000kw. (We have 4.8kw facing east and this reduces our total equivalent panels if they were all facing south to 13.4kw)
Over the first year of installation our East facing panels produced 888kw per installed kw. Our new panels on the south were 1061kw per installed kw and for comparison our original panels produced 1105kw per installed kw. It has been a good solar year. Our original panels totalled 4415kw for this period.
Money from solar generation sold back to the grid is tax free.
A year ago solar panels failed to add any significant value to a house (electricity was 12-14p/unit). Not sure what the current situation is, but with an increasing reliance on electricity and the cost unlikely to dip below 30p/kwh, I think solar now adds value. Australia is the biggest market for solar and the fastest growing one. Solar does add value there, but their climate is better suited to solar than ours so they can generate more, and they do use summer generation for air con. Often the two are installed together.
Solar Panels
Getting good quality panels means really efficient ones. Our new panels are all Hyundai 400 watts each They measure 1719 x 1140mm with an efficiency of 20.4%. Hyundai are a good large company and the panels have a 25 year warranty. The same size panel comes with lower outputs. The clincher for me is that (as far as I know) Hyundai are the only company who supply shingle panels. Shingle panels (Hyundai’s name) are subdivided into 10 sections of 40 watts each. When there is shading on part of the panel, only those affected areas will drop instead of the whole panel. We have shading issues the East roof. We also have trees from the west affecting the south roof.
Our original panels (Sanyo) were the only Japanese ones available and the most efficient at that time. All manufacturers quote degradation rates. The Sanyo’s said 90% of the performance would be retained after 10 years and 80% after 20 years which is the warranty they came with. The Hyundai come with a 25 year warranty and quotes degradation of up to 0.55%/year. At 25 years the minimum guaranteed generation would be 84.8% output of the start. It is my opinion that our original panels are most unlikely to have degraded by more than 2-3% in the first 10 years, because our output is too good for any other explanation to be true. We have an official electricity meter connected to the output of these panels, which is certain to be accurate. It had to be installed under the FIT Scheme because we are being paid to produce electricity.
Panel sizes have grown over the last 10 years. Our original ones were only 235 Watts. Bear in mind that you may be able to increase solar capacity by choosing smaller panels, or mixing large and small panels They must be installed below the ridge line and above the gutters whilst still overhanging the roof.
For anyone living further north output will be lower.
This is written in December. The time is 1330. The sun is shining. The East panels have nearly fallen asleep but the south ones are producing about 6.6kw. We are charging both the house battery and car. With no sun and depending on how overcast it is, we will often be producing around 300-400 watts. As a guide our background use is somewhere around 250 Watts. The 150 watts will top up the batteries slightly but not enough for us to last overnight. 6 hours of 150 watts gives us 0.9kw. With at least 16 hours of no solar production using 250 watts makes a total of 4kw. A relatively short burst of sunshine will prevent us going into "solar overdraft". I have calculated that the time we are likely to have to go back on grid is somewhere on or after the middle of November. Last year this was overnight on the 4th /5th December. This year it was overnight on the 30th November. We are likely to be off grid again by the last week in January.
So the point is to max out on panels. Our battery storage is too big and we have wasted money for the marginal extra benefits it gives us. As a guide every extra £1 spent will give you less benefit than the prvious one. (Law of diminishing returns)
Moving forward I would like to see us invest properly in green energy, mostly wind turbines as these are most cost effective. If we were to achieve 200% of our current demand for electricity, we could store some of the surplus in doubles dams. This could be used to even out demand when the wind drops. The rest of the surplus could be made into hydrogen, that could power commercial vehicles and planes. Failure to act is a government speciality. Sadly there is no plan(et) B
This post is designed to help newbies and people who have solar already installed. Allowances should be made for location, orientation and shading.
In October 2011 we had a 4kw system installed on a south facing unshahded roof in the PO9 area. We joined the FIT scheme. The primary purpose was enviromental. We bought the best panels available at the time which were 235 Sanyo HIT, 17 in all. They have since been rebranded Panasonic. The extra cost was £3k above the standard panels at that time.
In the first 10 years our panels had produced 43,650kw. In January 2021 the 4th cable bringing the UK electricity from the continent went "live". In enviromental terms we had completely failed to invest for our children's future so I decided to go all out for solar. During the summer we bought an EV and in September we installed a further 10.4KW of solar panels. 4.8kw was on our East roof and the 5.6kw was on the south roof. I also bought a second Aurora inverter for our original system second hand on ebay. This was identical to our existing one. Our original one was fine but at £125 it seemed like a good idea as the MEL (Minimum Expected Life) of an inverter is 10-15 years.
For anyone in a similar position I would recommend replacing their existing inverter with a Hybrid model. This is more expensive but will enable a battery back up to be fitted at the same time or later. If you can install more panels then taking a system up from 4kw is a good idea............but don't go mad as I did
Here are the results from the 1st year of the new system and 11th year from the start.
| 2021/2022 | Output | Target | % of target | Actual Reading | Meter Reading | Plus/Minus KW | ||||
| Year 11 | for target | for target | Hy East | Hy South | Total Output | |||||
| October | 276.9 | 299 | 92.61 | 43809 | 43831 | -22.10 | 240.2 | 364.4 | 881.5 | |
| November | 216.5 | 179 | 120.95 | 44025 | 44010 | 15.40 | 154.3 | 290.0 | 660.8 | |
| December | 96.2 | 132 | 72.88 | 44122 | 44142 | -20.40 | 66.6 | 134.5 | 297.3 | |
| January | 172.3 | 153 | 112.61 | 44294 | 44295 | -1.10 | 108.3 | 227.7 | 508.3 | |
| February | 249.4 | 220 | 113.36 | 44543 | 44515 | 28.30 | 199.9 | 329.0 | 778.3 | |
| March | 394.4 | 398 | 99.10 | 44938 | 44913 | 24.70 | 372.3 | 553.7 | 1320.4 | |
| April | 493.8 | 500 | 98.76 | 45432 | 45413 | 18.50 | 527.4 | 679.1 | 1700.3 | |
| May | 499.1 | 513 | 97.29 | 45931 | 45926 | 4.60 | 516.4 | 679.2 | 1694.7 | |
| June | 539.8 | 536 | 100.71 | 46470 | 46462 | 8.40 | 585.2 | 720.1 | 1845.1 | |
| July | 578.9 | 510 | 113.51 | 47049 | 46972 | 77.30 | 636.7 | 772.7 | 1988.3 | |
| August | 542.8 | 472 | 115.01 | 47592 | 47444 | 148.13 | 520.1 | 692.6 | 1755.5 | |
| September | 381.8 | 389 | 98.14 | 47974 | 47833 | 140.90 | 377.6 | 487.0 | 1246.4 | |
| Total | 4441.9 | 4301 | 4305 | 5930 | 14677 |
The spreadsheet was adapted from just the original panels to include our new ones which are Hyundai. Highest daily output was 87kw.
Here is a piece I produced to help people local to me.
We installed a 4kw system in October 2011 on our south roof where there is very little shade. We joined the FIT (Feed in tariff) scheme. After exactly 10 years we had generated 43650kw with a yearly low of 4104 and a high of 4528. In September 2021 we installed a further 10.4kw of new panels giving us a total of 14.4kw. 4.8kw is on our east roof with 5.6kw on the south roof. In addition we have 4 x 6.5kw of battery storage
Inescapable facts
Good quality panels on a south facing roof will produce over 1000kw/year per 1kw installed capacity
70% of solar production (with a variation of no more than 1% each way) will be produced between the spring and autumn equinoxes.
The cheapest item to buy and the most expensive to fit are the panels. Fitting as many high efficiency panels as possible is an absolute must. It is virtually unknown for panels to fail.
1kw of installed capacity will take up approximately 5 square metres on a roof. If panels you look at do not have a output of 1kw in less than 5 square metres, then find some which do.
Helpful Info
Inverters
Standard Inverters use the energy from the solar panels to produce AC current. When the panels are producing more electricity than you are using, this is exported to the grid. When you are not producing enough electricity ,you will be buying the difference between what you need and what the solar panels give you. Typically you will use about 20-25% of your output but this can be higher/lower.
Hybrid Inverters are designed to be used with storage batteries. They convert Solar energy into AC but will also charge up batteries with any surplus and draw down current when needed. This will significantly increase the amount you use of your solar generation. Hybrid inverters have 2 crucial figures. There is the max input from the solar panels and the max charge/discharge to the battery.
Batteries
Key to a long life for a battery is the BMS (Battery Management System). Nearly all of these will stop any discharging once the 10% is reached to preserve the battery longevity. They will also reduce the charging rate once the battery reaches about 80%. My Hybrid Inverter is capable of charging/discharging 6kw. Each battery is able to be charged/discharged at 3kw. If the batteries need charging, and my solar panels are producing 8kw, then 2kw will be sent to the grid.
Most systems tend to come in at a max of 7-8kw for a variety of reasons. At this level, sensible battery storage would be 7-12kw.
My view is that the maximum output is not as important as minimum output/efficiency.
Our use can be split approximately
Hot water for 3 showers/day 1800kw/year
7500 miles in our electric car @ 5 miles per kwh 1500kw/year
Kettle oven Microwave 800kw/year
Washing machine and dishwasher 500kw/year
Everything else 1500kw/year
In December we will only produce about 300kw and it is when we use most electricity, so our actual savings are lower than the figures above. Production peaked at 1988kw in July. As our electric production drops we switch our hot water back to gas as it is cheaper.
We export over 2/3rds of our output to the grid.
Payback
Our output this year has exceeded our target of 14,000kw. (We have 4.8kw facing east and this reduces our total equivalent panels if they were all facing south to 13.4kw)
Over the first year of installation our East facing panels produced 888kw per installed kw. Our new panels on the south were 1061kw per installed kw and for comparison our original panels produced 1105kw per installed kw. It has been a good solar year. Our original panels totalled 4415kw for this period.
Money from solar generation sold back to the grid is tax free.
A year ago solar panels failed to add any significant value to a house (electricity was 12-14p/unit). Not sure what the current situation is, but with an increasing reliance on electricity and the cost unlikely to dip below 30p/kwh, I think solar now adds value. Australia is the biggest market for solar and the fastest growing one. Solar does add value there, but their climate is better suited to solar than ours so they can generate more, and they do use summer generation for air con. Often the two are installed together.
Solar Panels
Getting good quality panels means really efficient ones. Our new panels are all Hyundai 400 watts each They measure 1719 x 1140mm with an efficiency of 20.4%. Hyundai are a good large company and the panels have a 25 year warranty. The same size panel comes with lower outputs. The clincher for me is that (as far as I know) Hyundai are the only company who supply shingle panels. Shingle panels (Hyundai’s name) are subdivided into 10 sections of 40 watts each. When there is shading on part of the panel, only those affected areas will drop instead of the whole panel. We have shading issues the East roof. We also have trees from the west affecting the south roof.
Our original panels (Sanyo) were the only Japanese ones available and the most efficient at that time. All manufacturers quote degradation rates. The Sanyo’s said 90% of the performance would be retained after 10 years and 80% after 20 years which is the warranty they came with. The Hyundai come with a 25 year warranty and quotes degradation of up to 0.55%/year. At 25 years the minimum guaranteed generation would be 84.8% output of the start. It is my opinion that our original panels are most unlikely to have degraded by more than 2-3% in the first 10 years, because our output is too good for any other explanation to be true. We have an official electricity meter connected to the output of these panels, which is certain to be accurate. It had to be installed under the FIT Scheme because we are being paid to produce electricity.
Panel sizes have grown over the last 10 years. Our original ones were only 235 Watts. Bear in mind that you may be able to increase solar capacity by choosing smaller panels, or mixing large and small panels They must be installed below the ridge line and above the gutters whilst still overhanging the roof.
For anyone living further north output will be lower.
This is written in December. The time is 1330. The sun is shining. The East panels have nearly fallen asleep but the south ones are producing about 6.6kw. We are charging both the house battery and car. With no sun and depending on how overcast it is, we will often be producing around 300-400 watts. As a guide our background use is somewhere around 250 Watts. The 150 watts will top up the batteries slightly but not enough for us to last overnight. 6 hours of 150 watts gives us 0.9kw. With at least 16 hours of no solar production using 250 watts makes a total of 4kw. A relatively short burst of sunshine will prevent us going into "solar overdraft". I have calculated that the time we are likely to have to go back on grid is somewhere on or after the middle of November. Last year this was overnight on the 4th /5th December. This year it was overnight on the 30th November. We are likely to be off grid again by the last week in January.
So the point is to max out on panels. Our battery storage is too big and we have wasted money for the marginal extra benefits it gives us. As a guide every extra £1 spent will give you less benefit than the prvious one. (Law of diminishing returns)
Moving forward I would like to see us invest properly in green energy, mostly wind turbines as these are most cost effective. If we were to achieve 200% of our current demand for electricity, we could store some of the surplus in doubles dams. This could be used to even out demand when the wind drops. The rest of the surplus could be made into hydrogen, that could power commercial vehicles and planes. Failure to act is a government speciality. Sadly there is no plan(et) B
Soldato
I've just had this quote in for a new solar install. Any advice would be great and welcome.
Soldato
@Peteronthesouthcoast Nice write up, what I'd really like to know is your November total production, I can then enter you on the OC UK solar performance chart - I think you'll go straight to the top. Glad to see you are also comparing by kw of installed panels 
Also if you're not on PV Output would you consider joining our newly created team please?
PS. I'm adding more panels, using 12 JA Solar 395 half cell panels, which will compliment my 4kw SolarEdge system installed in 2015
Also if you're not on PV Output would you consider joining our newly created team please?
PS. I'm adding more panels, using 12 JA Solar 395 half cell panels, which will compliment my 4kw SolarEdge system installed in 2015
Soldato
I dont get why they are charging you 2.3k to plug the battery in???I've just had this quote in for a new solar install. Any advice would be great and welcome.
Associate
Hi Valo!I've just had this quote in for a new solar install. Any advice would be great and welcome.
I struggle a bit to judge the inflation/demand at the moment, but with the same guys I paid £14k for 18 X 410w, 5kw inverter and 2 X 9.5kwh battery - so feels like worth a haggle, but I think the world has changed a fair bit since earlier this year, so other may be able to give you a better sense of demand/inflation etc
Soldato
14x 390s, 5 kw inverter, 12.3kw battery (allegedly 10.9/11 useable but seeing in real world less I think), hot water diverter, bird netting, whole house EPS
£13.6k (quote around mid aug iirc)
£13.6k (quote around mid aug iirc)