Spanish Grand Prix 2010, Circuit de Catalunya - Race 5/19

I just don't see how anyone can be denigrating Button given that we're just over a quarter of the way through the season and he's leading the championship.

Yes, his raw speed might not be on a par with Hamilton. But there have been and will be days where raw speed just won't cut it - you need brains, guile, and the ability to make tyres last. Hamilton has at least one of those, but he doesn't have all of them.

Yet.

I think Button did pretty well in the end - no dashboard, pitstop issues, a car that is nowhere near the Red Bull in terms of all-out pace on a dry track. And hell - so he couldn't get by Michael Schumacher, a 7 time world champion who knows every trick in the book (and a few more that aren't) about keeping someone behind. Not exactly a stick to beat him with is it? I don't think anyone could have overtaken him on that track on that day. An in-his-prime Mansell maybe, but not anyone out there in the race yesterday.
 
JRS said:
I just don't see how anyone can be denigrating Button given that we're just over a quarter of the way through the season and he's leading the championship.

Yes, his raw speed might not be on a par with Hamilton. But there have been and will be days where raw speed just won't cut it - you need brains, guile, and the ability to make tyres last. Hamilton has at least one of those, but he doesn't have all of them.

Yet.

I think Button did pretty well in the end - no dashboard, pitstop issues, a car that is nowhere near the Red Bull in terms of all-out pace on a dry track. And hell - so he couldn't get by Michael Schumacher, a 7 time world champion who knows every trick in the book (and a few more that aren't) about keeping someone behind. Not exactly a stick to beat him with is it? I don't think anyone could have overtaken him on that track on that day. An in-his-prime Mansell maybe, but not anyone out there in the race yesterday.
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Indeed, I seem to remember a certain Mr Hamilton who couldn't pass a Force India and sat behind it for lap after lap just a few weeks ago.

I think I'll just try and mentally block the majority of Button criticism for now on because the majority of people just make up their own (double)standards as they go along
 
Lopéz said:
I think I'll just try and mentally block the majority of Button criticism for now on because the majority of people just make up their own (double)standards as they go along
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I think thats actually very sensible - I hope I can do the same, unfortunately I doubt it , some people just wind me up with disparaging comments
 
sunama said:
Which tricks are you referring to - could you elaborate?
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He moves around in the braking zone a lot more than other drivers tend to. Not enough to gain him a penalty, but enough to really unsettle the guy trying to pass him. Most drivers will finish moving before the braking zone starts.

Sometimes this doesn't work. Often it does. And it certainly worked on Button, who wasn't about to go charging in with no dashboard readout to tell him what his car was doing.
 
JRS said:
He moves around in the braking zone a lot more than other drivers tend to. Not enough to gain him a penalty, but enough to really unsettle the guy trying to pass him. Most drivers will finish moving before the braking zone starts.
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My own personal fave is, "when the car behind manages to overtake you, you ram into the side of the car, taking him and yourself out of the race."

In 1994 it worked. In 1997, it didnt.
 
People are slating Button for getting stuck behind Schumacher, but people seem to be forgetting the part where Hamilton couldn't for life or limb get past Sutil a couple of races ago :o
 
sutil is faster than schui :p

i think the main reason button couldn't get past was because they have the same engine, with the straight/first corner the best place to overtake button didn't have enough speed advantage to make a move stick.
 
JRS said:
I just don't see how anyone can be denigrating Button given that we're just over a quarter of the way through the season and he's leading the championship..
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Clearly for the 2nd year on the row he's been lucky, according to this forum anyway.

Lopéz said:
Red Bull's qualifying advantage is way more than anything Brawn had last year.
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Exactly.

A random name said:
People are slating Button for getting stuck behind Schumacher, but people seem to be forgetting the part where Hamilton couldn't for life or limb get past Sutil a couple of races ago :o
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You see the way this forum works is to pull their todger off in excitement when a driver starts at the back and overtakes right up until they hit a similar paced car. This has happened to gods such as Alonso and Hamilton. When this happens to Button you hear how driver X or Y would have gotten past MS, forgetting how drivers X and Y stopped overtaking when they hit similar paced cars.

I suggest Button starts at the back in the next race so we can marvel at his overtakes on the bottom 5 teams.

I don't care who you are if MS has drive like that coming out of corners without a decent power advantage or straightline speed advantage you aint getting nowhere. Clearly evident by how close to the first corner it was before JB got anywhere near with a tow.

You can use the lucky line to talk about any drivers world title. Even Hamilton. He was lucky it was a chimp driving the ferrari against him instead of alonso or Hamilton would still have no titles.;)
 
dannyjo22 said:
You can use the lucky line to talk about any drivers world title. Even Hamilton. He was lucky it was a chimp driving the ferrari against him instead of alonso or Hamilton would still have no titles.;)
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He won it against the full force of the FIA. Remember Spa?

Maybe if it was Alonso he was fighting in the Ferrari back then, the FIA wouldn't have needed to penalise Hamilton as much to keep the points close to keep the FOM happy.
 
A random name said:
People are slating Button for getting stuck behind Schumacher, but people seem to be forgetting the part where Hamilton couldn't for life or limb get past Sutil a couple of races ago :o
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Meh. Who's counting? :D

NathanE said:
He won it against the full force of the FIA. Remember Spa?
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Oh good Lord....

Still??? Really??? Lewisteric fans are still going to dredge that one up? God in Heaven, how many times do we have to go over this?

Yes, it was a ******* crap penalty with no real basis in common sense. Yes, it shouldn't have happened. And yes, I think you'll find that I was one of the people who declared it a complete joke on here (not that sunama ever remembers, OH WELL....). But remind me again, how many points did he lose in Canada? You know, when he drove into the back of a stationary car in the pitlane with the red light on and the team politely asking him over the radio to hit the sodding brakes?

I'll remind you. He lost a damned-near certain win. Ten points. Massa (his title rival that year you will doubtless recall) didn't score in that race due to a separate incident.

Oh, and remind me again - how many points did he drop to Massa in Bahrain? You know, when Massa won and Hamilton finished a lap down in 13th thanks to him fluffing the start and clouting Alonso up the chuff early on?

Oh, and please remind me because I may have this wrong. I seem to recall in Japan that year that Hamilton qualified on pole, got a poor start, flew into a blind panic and wrecked his tyres at Turn 1 before coming together with Massa further around the lap. How many points did he drop that day again?

*sigh*

Yes, what happened in Spa was a travesty. But pointing to the retarded stewards there as the sole reason that he had a hard time winning the '08 title....it's waaaaaaay beyond annoying guys. He won. Mad Max's FIA is gone. It's over. Can you let it drop now please?



***edit***

In the few rational braincells I have right now I do recognise that I've had rather a lot to drink tonight. So if the above offends - I'm terribly sorry.



.




Well, I'm not actually. But I will tone the post down if both JRS barrels was a little too much :)
 
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Forgive me for not reading all 7 man-size pages of this thread, I assume a lot is probably ranting anyway.

I found the race totally dull. First time in a while I was not interested in watching the outcome. I looked away on lap 15 to just start listening, then looked up again and it was lap 40, nothing interesting had happened. I know it's not a great overtaking track, which is why I despair when there was talk about silverstone possibly being dropped, which has been a much more interesting track to race on. There always seems to be plenty of F1 passion in spain though, just a shame they don't get an exciting race.

I look forward a lot to monaco, my favourite race of the year. It optimises everything F1 for me, the money, glamour, speed and danger. Yeah, it's hard to overtake, but it never fails to keep your attention.
 
sunama said:
My own personal fave is, "when the car behind manages to overtake you, you ram into the side of the car, taking him and yourself out of the race."

In 1994 it worked. In 1997, it didnt.
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well hey if it worked for senna its no surprise schumacher gave it a go :D
 
sunama said:
My own personal fave is, "when the car behind manages to overtake you, you ram into the side of the car, taking him and yourself out of the race."

In 1994 it worked. In 1997, it didnt.
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well hey if it worked for senna its no surprise schumacher gave it a go :D

anyway your on drugs if you think schumacher didnt drive fairly in spain button threw his toys out of the pram because he got caught napping waaa waa he needs to toughen up its racing not a rolling road if he hasnt had moves similar to that an worse on him then he musnt have raced in the other single seater feeder series
 
JRS said:
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all those still remember Spa because for once LH DIDNT completely balls it up, wasnt he due a brain fade at that point in the season :D

You are totally correct, Spa was an absolute travesty (as I said at the time) but dayum he threw away soooo many other points its untrue

Dont forget acoording to surnama the FIA / Stewards are always correct - because they never get anything wrong at all, or backtrack on a previous ruling and ignore it due to the magical Alonso overtaking in a Ferrari in a pitlane in a breathtakingly wonderful manouvre :D
 
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