Spanish Grand Prix 2012, Catalunya - Race 5/20

Mr Men said:
Yeah he did, a drive through off course never helped and missing out on the top ten by 4 tenths behind Alonso in Q2, it really is not a massive gap considering Alonso is simply much better than Massa, I just don't understand those who think Massa should challenge Alonso on a regular basis. They either seriously over rate Massa or seriously under rate Alonso.
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I don't think it's either of these to be honest, and it's not that Massa should be pushing Alonso for evey point – he's simply under-performed against even modest expectations of his own potential.

Most people will accept that Alonso is the best driver in F1 and he's doing an amazing job of dragging an awful car into good finishing positions.

Now I doubt many people would expect Massa to be matching these results but equally most people would expect him to be doing better than he is, because despite my dislike of him, he shouldn't be that bad.

If he IS that bad, he shouldn't be driving in Formula 1 anymore.
 
pcoltrane said:
Having read some of the arguments on the autosport forums regarding this subject, you can't help from feel that a lot of the bitterness towards pirelli is discomfort that peoples favoured drivers are being beaten by "rubbish midfielders" like Maldonado, Perez, Grosjean etc. What I don't think most people appreciate is that at this level the drivers are much closer in ability than they would like to believe. There is barely more than a few tenths on average in pure pace between the very best and the worst on the grid - in the past car performance differences have flattered the "quick" drivers more than is fair. This year we may actually get a chance to see just how good some of the other drivers in smaller teams are too.
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I think there's definitely something too this. For all the talk of the sheer "randomness" of the season, I've still yet to see a Caterham challenge the midfield teams like they keep claiming they'll do, or a HRT not finish dead last. I also don't think* we'll see a Toro Rosso or a Force India win a race, because they don't look up to the standards of everyone else.

What we simply have are seven incredibly well-matched teams, with little to choose between them. Maybe it's the tyres that separates them, or maybe it's one of the million other components that make up each car?

I think we're going to see a real arms race this year, as everyone rushes to try whatever features they think might give them a tenth or two per lap. Personally I can't wait.

*I fully await being proven horribly wrong when Vergne laps the entire field for victory at Monaco.
 
arknor said:
its not schumachers pace that is the problem
http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page=chart&gp=868&graf=3&dr1=Michael Schumacher&dr2=Nico Rosberg

badluck , techincal failures and wheel nuts

schumacher really needs to stop putting faith in drivers like senna and kobayashi doing what he would expect alonso , hamilton , vettel etc to do though
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If you can't anticipate what a young driver on old tyres is going to do any more after 20 years in the sport I think its time to look at hanging up your helmet.
 
dannyjo22 said:
No but I'm not the one claiming the drivers are telling lies and discounting their information on the tyres because it suits my argument. Clearly people on here know better.
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No-one is claiming the drivers are lying; we're just not buying your interpretation and extrapolation from what they're saying.
 
Williams fuel rig. Spotted this on the show, but this is the first picture I've seen of it.

http://t.co/YB0sGyuV

One Williams person still in hospital with burns. Should return to the uk in the next 2 days though.

It's also pretty cool that McLaren have offered Williams any help and kit they may need to be ready for Monaco. If they offer any pit stop gear, I'd personally politely decline that offer. ;)

They are going to have one hell of an uphill battle to get ready. Just all the IT and comms gear that was destroyed will take a while to restore. They're not simple systems. Will be interesting to see what they have running, it may well be in a fairly cut down state for the next couple of races.

Caterham also suffered some damage in their garage, but nothing overly serious.
 
Glaucus said:
They don't crash because of the cliff, they are crashing before the cliff.
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It's easy to understand really.. Lewis done a 1’21.707 pole lap with 2 1/2 of laps of fuel and he pushed himself and the tires
BUT the tires could never do a lap like that again. The option tires are only good for ONE LAP.

Now bridgstone could last about 10 laps then they fall off very slowly about 30 laps.

edit=I forgot to say that Rubens done a 01:18.926 at the same track with bridgestones :)
 
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Flibster said:
It's also pretty cool that McLaren have offered Williams any help and kit they may need to be ready for Monaco. If they offer any pit stop gear, I'd personally politely decline that offer. ;).
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:D

Very nice of them to club together, they finally get a race win and this happens. Amazing bad luck for all involved :(
 
deuse said:
It's easy to understand really.. Lewis done a 1’21.707 pole lap with 2 1/2 of laps of fuel and he pushed himself and the tires
BUT the tires could never do a lap like that again. The option tires are only good for ONE LAP.

Now bridgstone could last about 10 laps then they fall off very slowly about 30 laps.
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Bridgestones for the most part would only do 1 qaulifying lap. The only difference is drop off rate requiring more pitstops. So yes it's easy to understand. You lot are talking rubbish.
Just because the times are get slower does not mean they are not pushing. Also remember fuling in bridgstone days.
 
Skeeter said:
If you can't anticipate what a young driver on old tyres is going to do any more after 20 years in the sport I think its time to look at hanging up your helmet.
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you dont expect them to turn in a braking zone for a start and senna shouldnt just assume the guy will come up the inside without looking which i suspect is pure BS.

i didnt see anyone calling for hamilton to retire when nearly every race he was smashing into the same driver race after race
 
That's another thing I don't understand, the hatred for senna. I don't think he's done too bad, fair enPugh he hasn't set the world alight. But I don't think he's dreadfully either
 
arknor said:
you dont expect them to turn in a braking zone for a start and senna shouldnt just assume the guy will come up the inside without looking which i suspect is pure BS.
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It was clearly MS's mistake.


Glaucus said:
That's another thing I don't understand, the hatred for senna. I don't think he's done too bad, fair enPugh he hasn't set the world alight. But I don't think he's dreadfully either
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Yep.
 
Senna hardly moved. Schumacher made a bad judgement call. His aggressive refusal to admit any fault strikes me as coming from a man who is desperately trying to hide from the fact his come back has been far from the success he thought it would be.

Pretty much the same attitude as some of his fans, interestingly...
 
arknor said:
you dont expect them to turn in a braking zone for a start and senna shouldnt just assume the guy will come up the inside without looking which i suspect is pure BS.

i didnt see anyone calling for hamilton to retire when nearly every race he was smashing into the same driver race after race
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There was never a point where there was less than a car's width on either side of Senna. Moving a few inches either way is not weaving.

Schumacher went left, probably though he'd tricked Senna into covering that side, and then barrelled into the back of him because he left the move right too late.
 
are we seeing the fastest car each weekend win or are we seeing the car that makes the tires work at the particular track and temperature.

theres no way the field can swap about so much.

one week vettel is winning the next scraping a top 6.

williams no were then winning with comfort

mercedes do the most dominant win this season then disappear of the grid.


the only car that is consistently fast over 1 lap is hamiltons.

has any team shown consistent race pace this season?

hard to tell who has a quick car when the standings are so topsy turvy each week.
 
he might have hardly moved but it was at the last second and left the car behind second guessing where he was going to go so i wouldnt say senna is blameless.

schumacher has had a habit of misjudging the situation when trying to overtake people whos tyres are completely cooked though.

it comes to a point where its not really safe for a car to be on these tyres anymore even coulthard was suprised when senna didnt pit just before the collision happened.

in my view 70% schumacher - 30% senna

i wouldnt say schumacher should retire over it though....
 
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