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That seems to have been the case, particularly in the first half. Although with Hibs fielding such an unfamiliar and inexperienced back four, Celtic were bound to score goals.

In unrelated news, Rangers face UEFA sectarian charge. UEFA should clobber them if the allegations are true. Isn't this about the fourth or fifth such case in as many years?

Ibrox chiefs claim the UEFA delegate at that game PRAISED Gers fans in his report.


They believe the potential punishment has come as a result of an internet campaign designed to put the boot into the club.

SunSport understands that UEFA delegate Geir Thorsteinsson's dossier was NOT overly scathing of RANGERS fans behaviour although he did highlight 'anti-IRA chants'.

Look at Spurs game. Alleged Racial abuse. UEFA well it wasnt in our observers report and the police and security raise the issue. The same could be said for the Ranges game so who made the complaint? We all have our own ideas of who is leaging this agenda.

Didnt know chanting against a terrorist organisation who killed innicent men women and children was deemed sectarian.
 
Ibrox chiefs claim the UEFA delegate at that game PRAISED Gers fans in his report.


They believe the potential punishment has come as a result of an internet campaign designed to put the boot into the club.

SunSport understands that UEFA delegate Geir Thorsteinsson's dossier was NOT overly scathing of Gers' fans behaviour although he did highlight 'anti-IRA chants'.

Look at Spurs game. Alleged Racial abuse. UEFA well it wasnt in our observers report and the police and security raise the issue. The same could be said for the Ranges game so who made the complaint? We all have our own ideas of who is leaging this agenda.

Didnt know chanting against a terrorist organisation who killed innicent men women and children was deemed sectarian.

Police now saying they're going to do a crackdown at the next Old Firm game with a list of songs that'll be banned. Will probably be retrospective punishment through CCTV footage as I doubt they'll want to arrest dozens of supporters during the match.

Also, from reading that story it's clear that other SPL delegates/clubs(?) aren't willing to report fans singing sectarian songs out of fear of punishment. Looks like if an internet campaign was behind all of this then it's going to come back on all of the clubs not just Rangers. :)
 
your serious as well , thats the sad part , you must be hiding in the toilet at celtic park when they sing their sectarian songs , what an agenda :( get a life mate.

If Celtic fans sung sectarian songs, I would want the same things done.

But we don't.

If you want to be more specific within the rules of the forum i.e without the personal insults which I'll not report this time as it doesn't bother me :p, I can give you a more in depth reply?

I also think this opinion of Rangers fans that we sing sectarian songs also comes from the same Internet forums as presumably Rangers fans don't spend their weekends at Celtic park all that often.

Also, IF you can look past Celtic for a moment, I would be interested to hear your opinion on the songs Rangers fans sing and how you think they should be dealt with?
 
If Celtic fans sung sectarian songs, I would want the same things done.

But we don't.

If you want to be more specific within the rules of the forum i.e without the personal insults which I'll not report this time as it doesn't bother me :p, I can give you a more in depth reply?

I also think this opinion of Rangers fans that we sing sectarian songs also comes from the same Internet forums as presumably Rangers fans don't spend their weekends at Celtic park all that often.

Also, IF you can look past Celtic for a moment, I would be interested to hear your opinion on the songs Rangers fans sing and how you think they should be dealt with?
feel free to report me i have made no personal insults here , it seems you are offended by everything , you say celtic fans dont sing sectarian songs , now that is a blatant lie.
you ask me to look past celtic and claim its only rangers that have this problem and ask me how would i deal with it, are you serious here or at the wind up ? you are in denial about your own club but still want to put the boot into rangers and for me to participate in this charade.

parity is all i ask for .
 
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feel free to report me i have made no personal insults here , it seems you are offended by everything , you say celtic fans dont sing sectarian songs , now that is a blatant lie.
you ask me to look past celtic and claim its only rangers that have this problem and ask me how would i deal with it, are you serious here or at the wind up ? you are in denial about your own club but still want to put the boot into rangers and for me to participate in this charade.

parity is all i ask for .

Celtic DON'T sing sectarian songs... if you have heard something sung that you think is sectarian, why don't you tell me what it is and we can discuss it normally? Instead of you making fantastical and false accusations.

If you keep saying that, I obviously have to keep setting the record straight. Making statements like it's a blatant lie and saying you want parity, it's an Old Firm problem etc. wont cut it here. That's a poor excuse trotted out by Rangers fans and the media but not based in reality otherwise Celtic would be in front of UEFA.

Yes I am serious, no wind up. I don't see how it is putting the boot into Rangers if it is an action to get rid of songs no decent person wants to hear, will allow your fans to support you in European games next year, don't you want that?

So if you can stop with the childish arguments and feeling like a victim for the 5 minutes it would take you to comment on your own club, I'd appreciate to hear what you really think.
 
Deny, deflect, deny. It's the Rangers way.

Their club actually had to issue a 'wee blue book' full of traditional, non-sectarian (if they don't ad-lib) songs for them to sing and it went ignored.

When Celtic fans (and I'm only talking about the away support here) sing songs that seem to offend others, it is only political songs not sectarian. I would rather they didn't sing these songs but let's face it, a small minority exists that revel in this. Over the city at Ibrox, it seems to be a large majority who belt out the sectarian anthems and this is why they are in trouble. Rightly so in my opinion.
 
Arguing that Celtic songs are just political not sectarian is as laughable as the attempts by the SPL to sort out this problem in our game, or arguing how many fans of each club are responsible for it.

The songs are all sectarian and are blighting Scottish football for years to the point it was a large reason for the EPL blocking the Old Firm joining their league and now thankfully the SFA/SPL/fans can no longer ignore it.

I'd like to know why the SFA/SPL didn't fine the OF clubs after the recent cup final though despite clear sectarian singing by both clubs' fans, yet police said fans were "well behaved". Yet again another example of officials ignoring the problem until UEFA get involved.
 
Arguing that Celtic songs are just political not sectarian is as laughable as the attempts by the SPL to sort out this problem in our game, or arguing how many fans of each club are responsible for it.

The songs are all sectarian and are blighting Scottish football for years to the point it was a large reason for the EPL blocking the Old Firm joining their league and now thankfully the SFA/SPL/fans can no longer ignore it.

I'd like to know why the SFA/SPL didn't fine the OF clubs after the recent cup final though despite clear sectarian singing by both clubs, yet police said fans were "well behaved".

There wasn't any sectarian singing from the Celtic end at the cup final. So your wrong there for starters.

I'm sorry, you need to be more specific if you are going to be throwing accusations of sectarianism at Celtic.

Given it's a serious problem, I don't think unfounded and uneducated opinions based on hearsay are very helpful contributions. This isn't the Clyde phone-in.

Anyway, the only neutral authority, UEFA, has said which team has the problem and it's Rangers and not Celtic and that's been their opinion 4 times over since 2006. I think this discussion has gone way off course into tit for tat instead of what I wanted which was to help find a solution for Rangers to deal with their supporters.
 
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Apart from the obvious songs I'd also argue most songs that are pro-Irish terrorism have their basis in sectarianism and should be on the list that police will publish for the next Old Firm game. While political with the whole problem at the heart of the Irish "troubles" is sectarian.

Granted with Celtics history and links to Ireland it's obvious their fans will sing songs that aren't sectarian and related to that past, as you say though going off topic.

Rangers need to show that they'll ban fans that are found singing these songs using CCTV or stewards and up to the league to discuss punishment if it happens in large numbers (like the cup final). It'll be interesting to see the reaction to both sets of Old Firm fans once the list of banned songs is published.

Anyway, almost full card today so hopefully some good football with the weather. :)
 
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Celtic DON'T sing sectarian songs... if you have heard something sung that you think is sectarian, why don't you tell me what it is and we can discuss it normally? Instead of you making fantastical and false accusations.

If you keep saying that, I obviously have to keep setting the record straight. Making statements like it's a blatant lie and saying you want parity, it's an Old Firm problem etc. wont cut it here. That's a poor excuse trotted out by Rangers fans and the media but not based in reality otherwise Celtic would be in front of UEFA.

Yes I am serious, no wind up. I don't see how it is putting the boot into Rangers if it is an action to get rid of songs no decent person wants to hear, will allow your fans to support you in European games next year, don't you want that?

So if you can stop with the childish arguments and feeling like a victim for the 5 minutes it would take you to comment on your own club, I'd appreciate to hear what you really think.
its an old firm problem , any reasonable person would agree with this fact , end of.
 
Fletch, just keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better. Name the sectarian songs that Celtic sing to continue your argument or keep quiet and stop tainting the name of Celtic.
 
WOW - close call for Celtic today - thought that would be tough.

Oh well, gives Hamilton something to shoot for now, watching the team above them in the relegation zone, drop points.

Aberdeen woeful again - whats happening there?
 
Full time scores for today:

Aberdeen 0-1 Hibernian
Celtic 1-0 St Mirren
Dundee Utd 2-0 St Johnstone
Hearts 0-0 Motherwell
Kilmarnock 1-1 Inverness

I can't help feeling that St Mirren and Aberdeen have been a shade fortunate that Hamilton are quite so determinedly cemented to the bottom of the table this season. By the sounds of it a pretty dull draw at Tynecastle today.
 
Fletch, just keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better. Name the sectarian songs that Celtic sing to continue your argument or keep quiet and stop tainting the name of Celtic.
tainting the name of celtic ( read billy mcneills biography) i dont have to do that now do i eddie .

Rangers have no skeletons in the cupboard, but these songs do the Ibrox men little credit
By JOHN GOW

When the news that UEFA are looking to bring charges against Rangers for sectarian singing, there is hardly a Rangers fan who did not groan with displeasure. It's in the nature of being a supporter that you dislike bad PR for the club you love. It would be easy to metaphorically put your head under the pillow and wish it would all go away. Well it isn't going away. It was never going away.

Some fans pretended it was and nothing could touch the club. They are wrong.

There are people who spend most of their waking life writing about and trying to hurt The Rangers any way they can. In a world without meaning this is their raison d'être. However, let us be clear. Some of the songs Rangers fans sing have become unacceptable, and frankly bizarre, in modern society.

It's not necessary to sing about Chapels and Nuns considering there are more than enough Championships, Cups and victories against Celtic to cheer.

Rangers are standing at a crossroads that has two paths. The first is to blindly walk on the current course. It will be a 'death by a thousand cuts' with a long, slow degradation of Rangers reputation and standing. There will almost certainly be bans from UEFA and the SFA/SPL or Scottish Authorities will eventually be forced to make their mark. This road is exactly what many non-Rangers fans secretly desire.

The second option is to embrace Zero Tolerance, completely forbid the singing of those songs and chants like 'No Pope of Rome', 'The Billy Boys' and 'The Famine Song' but also in return demand Scottish football and society stop all offensive and sectarian songs. Including the terrorist-chic of IRA songs. The charge by some fans that if these songs are banned the club will start to lose part of it's identity is false. Singing about Rangers or even your pride in Britishness is not the same as pejoratively referencing another religion or nationality. In 1960, James Handley writing in 'The Celtic Story' wrote that:

until a Catholic centre-forward in a Rangers blue jersey scores a goal against a Celtic team the tension will persist. If that should ever come to pass then the rabble would be bewildered and all its fire extinguished. The notion that the mob can be ultimately educated to see the folly of its way is a hollow one, for the creatures who compose it are ineducable.

Not only is the text highly inflammatory and surprisingly reminiscent of Graham Spiers, he fails to understand The Rangers support. In the end when his Catholic Rangers player scenario once again came to life, the Maurice Johnston goal did not cause depression amongst Rangers fans but sheer joy. In fact it was even sweeter because it made the Celtic fans feel worse than usual after such a late decider. In the end it has always been about the club winning Championships and beating Celtic.

That is Rangers' identity. This is a crucial point.

Stopping songs about Catholicism or Ireland is not the same as asking Rangers fans to stop singing about Rangers and even of Britishness. Some fans have fallen into the trap of forgetting an identity is for something and not just against something. If the fans do stop then the club can legitimately defend the support. They have done this in the past when certain journalists questioned some pro-British songs. It soon became obvious that their query was not completely driven by an anti-sectarian stance, but to a reaction against any mention of British identity. In the end they had to back down. They had no case.

However if the singing does persist, Martin Bain can hardly be seen to be defending the support if fans mention Famines and Priests. No-one can. Not Bain or any other CEO in the future.

It doesn't matter if fans say they are not insulting those who died in a famine. If you mention a famine you can hardly blame people taking offence. If another fan group quoted the Ibrox Disaster - even if they were not belittling the tragedy - Rangers fans would still find it unacceptable.

It doesn't matter if you elaborate some response that you dislike Catholicism as a religion but have no problems with Catholics. If you sing about "No Pope of Rome" and "No Nuns and no Priests, **** your Rosary Beads" you will not be taken seriously. It doesn't matter if you sing 'The Billy Boys' and explain that Fenian does not mean Catholic and that Celtic fans sing in praise of Fenians. Society is not a debating chamber. Ideas are transmitted crudely. Sometimes those who make the most noise win.

It has already been decided Fenian means Catholic. Game over. And lets be honest, in the same way some people use Hun to mean British or Protestant and then pretend it only means Rangers fans.

There is no way a sizeable - especially young - section of the support does not equate Fenian with Catholic. Now before you get the impression I am just putting on a hair-shirt after a good beating with the big guilt-stick, I would like to re-emphasise - that as well as stopping those songs seen as offensive - Rangers FC and fans should demand zero-tolerance of sectarianism and discrimination from everyone. Demand that everyone should actually follow through on their strong zero-tolerance campaigns and expose them when they don't.

Continue to ask questions if you see double-standards. Ask why it is a crime to be up to your knees in Fenian blood, but not Hibee or any other blood? Politely ask why offensive songs about the Pope are worse than offensive songs praising the IRA? Ask why journalists like Graham Spiers of The Times believes pro-IRA songs are "political" and why Andrew Smith of The Scotsman thinks "any acknowledgement of the Irish Republic can be viewed as pro-IRA" and that "The British Army are guilty of acts of terrorism in Iraqw" (sic) . Demand to know why glorifying guns and violence is acceptable? Query why IRA songs are "political" but UVF songs are sectarian? (Please note I am against both.)

Once questions are asked it will surprise you how many secretly support or defend the IRA, or their own form of bigotry. They get off lightly because they are never asked any difficult questions by a support too busy navel-gazing over a few indefensible songs. Only recently I came across an article by a St Johnstone fanzine interviewing the BBC's Stuart Cosgrove who said:

"One time we were through at Hearts, and we were at Falkirk station on the way, on the same day Rangers were playing Falkirk. It was Huns galore - thousands of them, and there were maybe 40 of us in the CYS from Perth. We got on the train at Falkirk Station, we just opened the windows as it started moving, and gave them "Orange ****ers" and all the rest of it, and of course as soon as we were moving - the train stopped and started moving back into the station! The driver must have been a Hun or something." http://www.blueheaven.org.uk/cos1/cos3.php
This is an employee of the same BBC who lecture others on sectarianism. This is the level of debate we are dealing with. It only needs the light of day for it to be exposed for what it is. (Ask yourself if you hear Stuart Cosgrove in the future discussing sectarianism that you won't be better informed about him by knowing that quote.) Rangers fans welcome fans and players from all religions and nationalities.

From Dubliner Alex Stevenson who went onto coach the Republic of Ireland national team to Nacho Novo of Spain and Lorenzo Amoruso of Italy. From the supporters in Rome called 'the Italian Gers' to the Dublin Loyal of Ireland. From a report that show 5% of Rangers fans in Glasgow are Catholic (4% of Celtic fans in Glasgow are Protestant) to the Gers proud Asian fans.

No-one cares because they share the support of The Rangers Football Club. However, wider society doesn't see this. They only see the stereotype projected and hear nonsense songs. They naturally assume the worst. So accept the challenge.

Take the opportunity to make the Ibrox experience noisy and colourful. Sing about the magic of Rangers history. If there are non-football songs make sure it is for a positive identity we can share together. Society wants Zero Tolerance so lets give it to them. Start demanding the zero tolerance of all offensive/racist/bigoted songs. Not only is it the right moral choice but it's the best action for the club.

There is nothing to fear. Rangers have no skeletons in the cupboard. Let us see if others can say the same.
http://www.theawayend.net/index.php...nity-for-rangers&catid=51:features&Itemid=109
 
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tainting the name of celtic , read billy mcneills biography. i dont have to do that now do i eddie .

I expected this would be the form of comeback you eventually come up with, which is a shame as I'd hoped you might have an opinion of your own. Unfortunately, it doesn't hold up to any scrutiny. Billy McNeill is out of touch with what is sung at Celtic Park as there isn't any pro IRA stuff sung there now. If you want to argue this point, I'd be keen to hear what you have to say? As I've asked you numerous times now.

However, IF they were sang, they aren't illegal or bigoted or sectarian. You just don't like them which unfortunately isn't a good enough argument to say we are in the same boat as you or have them banned.
 
Aberdeen woeful again - whats happening there?

Apparently they struck the woodwork a few times, so perhaps they were just a bit unlucky this afternoon.

The thing that strikes me about Hibs at the moment is just how young the majority of the team is. Today's starting back four had an average age of just nineteen!
 
And Fletch refusues to answer the question put before him but instead trots out the skewed view of John Gow who just happens to be a fellow Rangers supporter who has continually defended the indefensible by pointing a finger and saying 'but they do it too'.

Anyhoo, Celtic beat St Mirren to go five points clear in a very edgy game. St Mirren spurned several chances to go level as jitters seemed to get the better of Celtic. Chris Commons scored the goal, and what a goal, that seperated the teams.
 
And Fletch refusues to answer the question put before him but instead trots out the skewed view of John Gow who just happens to be a fellow Rangers supporter who has continually defended the indefensible by pointing a finger and saying 'but they do it too'.

Well to be fair Rotty has said the discussion stops at that point as the thread was going back into the old usual stuff.

Anyhoo, Celtic beat St Mirren to go five points clear in a very edgy game. St Mirren spurned several chances to go level as jitters seemed to get the better of Celtic. Chris Commons scored the goal, and what a goal, that seperated the teams.

Puts the pressure on Rangers tomorrow with their game against Hamilton so job done despite the performance lining up for another exciting Old Firm game in a couple of weeks time. Wonder how many twists and turns will happen to the rest of the season with league position? :)
 
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