****Star Wars: Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker - Official Thread****

Of course it's that simple - anyone who didn't absolutely vehemently hate every second of it must be some kind of casual non-genuine fan :rolleyes:

If you went into the film knowing that the whole franchise was inherently broken from VII you can enjoy it in the same way as I enjoyed the Fast and Furious films as a mindless action film with Star Wars nostalgia. Yes I was sitting there as a nerd wondering how the hell a Tie fighter without hyperdrive has just made that trip to Palpatine but then since George Lucas sold it all to Disney it was bound to happen. He was wealthy enough as it was so why did he have to do it in the first place apart from obvious greed?
 
If you went into the film knowing that the whole franchise was inherently broken from VII you can enjoy it in the same way as I enjoyed the Fast and Furious films as a mindless action film with Star Wars nostalgia. Yes I was sitting there as a nerd wondering how the hell a Tie fighter without hyperdrive has just made that trip to Palpatine but then since George Lucas sold it all to Disney it was bound to happen. He was wealthy enough as it was so why did he have to do it in the first place apart from obvious greed?

I assumed I would be able to accept the trilogy was broken and enjoy it but I didn’t.

You can’t just make a terrible film and expect everyone to like it just because it’s set in the Star Wars universe.

I really hope people stop swallowing rubbish like this as it might force film makers to have a rethink
 
Of course it's that simple - anyone who didn't absolutely vehemently hate every second of it must be some kind of casual non-genuine fan :rolleyes:

There's going to be people in between, ofc - but for the most part this is the case. It's hard to argue the recent trilogy wasn't a mess in terms of scripting and direction. That's basically been admitted. The last episode in particular could have been directed by Michael Bay. Stick every SW reference possible in a 2 hour movie with constant action and little space for dialogue and characters. If I wasn't a SW fan I wouldn't have cared and treated like Transformers. The contrast is particularly obvious as Rogue One, Solo and Mandalorian did things so much better. Properly crafted stories that built up interest and tension and give characters time to develop.

Even Marvel films are no different.

Marvel moves have been leagues better than the recent SW trology in this regard. I'd argue that's where Marvel particularly shine and why the DC movies seem to poor in comparison. Time needs to be spent building up characters otherwise we don't care what happens to them.
 
Marvel moves have been leagues better than the recent SW trology in this regard. I'd argue that's where Marvel particularly shine and why the DC movies seem to poor in comparison. Time needs to be spent building up characters otherwise we don't care what happens to them.

For every good Marvel movie there are 3 sub par ones. I agree on the character building point.
 
For every good Marvel movie there are 3 sub par ones. I agree on the character building point.

I may be cherry picking a little, but for the most part Marvel do a good job. Especially with the more recent movies. Guardians of the Galaxy is almost a masterclass in introuducing and establishing a bunch of new characters in a short space of time.
 
See much as it feels like I'm just disagreeing with you all now on principle, I genuinely find the Marvel movies to be exactly like you are all saying the Star Wars ones are... I have watched them all and even right up until the end I fail to really care all that much about any of the characters - the movies feel like episodes of one big TV shows rather than movies to me... and that isn't to say I wasn't entertained and I think some of them are fairly good; I just don't get the high praise - I wouldn't refer to any of the Marvel movies as a "masterclass" in anything (except how to churn out exactly what the audience wants) (and I wouldn't refer to any of the new Star Wars trilogy as a "masterclass" in anything either for the record, I just don't think they're "utter trash" or whatever the current hyperbole happens to be)
 

:D

Interesting theory about Palpatine, the one in this movie hooked up to the machine is the original, possibly hundreds of years old and the Palpatine in the original trilogy was a clone.
 
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So, found some time to expand upon my thoughts.

In a nutshell, I liked the world building and the sense of adventure. There was a huge amount going on in this film - it makes TFA and TLJ seem almost claustrophobic in comparison. It was occasionally very funny - well used humour. The newer characters were fleshed out. The old ones were used sparingly (good). I was genuinely routing for the 'good guys' :eek:

I guess it's best to deal with it in a rough 'chronological' order and then say things I like and don't like etc. I won't be exhaustive because it's just a forum post.

Chronology (just for misc. thoughts):
Intro - OK so there is a new threat that's apparently on nobodies side. Both the first order and the rebellion (or whatever they are called) are worried. That's the scene set.

Kylo gets to the Sith planet. Wow, they made Star Wars grim dark. Almost a horror tone - completely fresh for the series. I thought it was creepy and fun. Anyone else feel that they raided the Warhammer 40,000 universe for the Sith planet? At the end, the emperor reminded me of Bellasairus Cawl :p

Then, to my recollection, we have the falcon getting info and being chased, in a light speed jump sequence which seemed to have caused some confusion. It was a very fast paced scene and short in duration, probably for the best as otherwise these things outstay their welcome (and beg even further disbelief). As for the tracking itself, it was made pretty clear in the last film that the First Order now has the ability to track ships through hyper speed so it's not a huge step to say they have developed the technology to just generally lock on to wherever the falcon was going. The 'good guys' were stating how absurdly dangerous it was during the sequence. Something that requires the suspension of disbelief for the audience too, for sure, and probably the low point of the film.

We have Rey training and being distracted again by her past. She has great strength but is still unrefined - she can't tap into the power of the past Jedi, as she discusses with Leia.

They go off to the desert planet which is quite fun. Kylo finds them by exploiting the 'link' (explained later). C3PO gives such an awesome line here: "bones! ..... never a good sign" - lol, it's so true and such an understatement - it's had me giggling for a couple of days :D

Rey shows her healing power. The film goes on to explain that her and Kylo have this, and are so hyper powered, and have the ability to see each other / grab each other (as seen in the last film) because of the 'once in several generations' link that binds them. This power is what the emperor is drawing on when he heals himself.

Off to the snow planet to translate C3PO. Here we get backstory for Poe and find out about his former partner / lover. More amusing scenes with the funny mechanic robot.

Mission to save Chewie / retrieve the dagger. Kylo and Rey have another 'link' moment.

Off to the wave planet (moon of endor I presume) - this was visually awesome. Finn is able to find himself as he realises that there are many others link him that abandoned the First Order. He gets a sense of belonging. Great to see the old Death Star and ROTJ throne room. Leia realises the only was to save her son is by dying, therefore making him feel grief and question his actions. Was really cool to see Harrison Ford back.

Final section was using Kylo's ship to get to the Sith planet and the whole thing has been set up to lure Rey in and to take over as the new empress. I thought the two of them using the link power to teleport the light sabre was great. Rey finally taps into the juicy Jedi power and becomes 'Saitama'. New colour light sabre to show she is balanced and the whole 'good and bad' side is just a bit outdated.

The End.

So, things I really liked:
Horror elements felt fresh. Felt like 40k!
A fast paced adventure vibe, not bogged down with undue brooding.
Poe's backstory was welcome.
Rey's power and backstory explained (Palpatine plus link powers = mega powered).
Desert and wave planets were both great settings.
I liked the 'link' scenes which were substantially built-upon from the Last Jedi.
Fun fleeting cameos.
R2D2 shunted away with minimum screen time.
Heavily inferred that the good guys need not be '100% pure goodies'.

OK bits:
Lesbian kiss was a bit needless but whatever.
Finn's 'resolution of sorts' and finding people like him could have been fleshed out.
I liked the quibbling between Finn and Poe (which was heavily inferred to be male competition over Rey) but I feel that should have been resolved.
I liked the implication that Finn was force sensitive but this wasn't built on much.

Bad bits:
Umm, I guess they got rid of her due to her own preferences but, Rose was really relegated! Seemed a bit odd. Feel sorry for the actress.
The lighspeed jumping sequence wasn't great / just a bit silly. Less is more.
I would rather they left Chewie dead.

My response to some of the criticisms recently made. Cheers for expanding on your thoughts!

1. Terrible pacing, we were leaping from scene to scene constantly, as has been mentioned above it's a common trend of late and it's not one I appreciate.

It was very fast paced, definitely. As I mentioned above, I liked that it felt like an adventure (with minimum brooding). One of my favourite films of all time is Indiana Jones and The Last Crusade, which goes all over the place too, so that's not something that bothers me.

2. Rey never evolved as a character, she was a Mary Sue from start to finish. This could be expanded on but I'd be here for quite some time. I found it difficult to become invested in any of the main cast, bland, boring, soulless.

Well, it did explain her powers were from being a Palpatine and also due to the force link between her and Kylo. I thought Poe was really expanded upon in this film.

3. Fan service for the sake of fan service. The old cast were clearly included in large for this reason, but they might as well have not been there. Leia came across as awkward for obvious reasons, frankly I think it'd have been better to kill her off screen prior to the start of the movie, she stood out like a sore thumb. Bringing Han back, either Kylo was hallucinating or suddenly non-force users can become force ghosts. Lando might as well not have been in it, you could literally replace him with any random character and little to nothing would change. Luke's scene also felt rushed. Bringing Palpatine back is the epitome of this, they knew how negative the response to TLJ was so they shoe horned Palpatine in to generate hype. The inclusion of them all just came across as forced.

I don't think any of them had much screen time other than C3PO. I like that they ditched R2. I'm sort of neutral on this because I wanted the series to progress and I think they deliberately toned down the importance of the 'old cast'.

I'm not offended by bringing back Palpatine and really like how he was given a horror 'grim dark' vibe.


4. Overuse/Misuse of force. I'm not a fan of the force heal mechanic, if done subtly I would be more forgiving but like much of the movie it came across as ham-fisted. Dragging flying ships out of the sky, the level of force lighting. I don't buy the "he was ALL THE SITH!" excuse, it's poor writing hiding behind flashy Michael Bay style movie-making. The teleporting objects also came across poorly. The force used to be part of the charm of Star Wars, in TROS it became a crutch for poor storytelling.

I don't think this is something you can really say is specific to this film. The use of the force certainly was bombastic but it didn't bother me. I didn't feel that way about the teleporting objects - I quite liked the new 'link' powers.

5. Lack of care for previous installments, by bringing Palpatine back they rendered the initial six movies pointless. Anakin brought balance to the force by finding redemption and ending the threat that was Palpatine. Does that mean that the Sith can't come back? Of course not, but bring them back with a different antagonist, clearly that was supposed to be Snoke until Rian Johnson crapped all over the setup of TFA but it doesn't mean you need to resurrect Palpatine. Do something new for gods sake, I could forgive TFA for essentially copying A New Hope because it brought together the old cast with a new generation, but I expected actual progression from the next two movies.

There really isn't much to have a discussion about on that - it's your thoughts, fair play, and we disagree.

6. Lack of payoff from past characters/plot elements. The Knights of Ren were absolutely garbage, they're built up in TFA, forgotten about in TLJ, and when they turn up in TROS they're throw away and largely pointless, like a bunch of things in this movie they felt shoehorned in.

I didn't have any expectation of them or care for them at all.

Then there was all the other stuff, the light speed skipping was pure Michael Bay film-making, trying to hide the fact everything is a bit poo by throwing a flashy visual spectacle at the audience. The entire thing felt like two movies crammed into one, with plenty of committee/higher up Disney involvement dumped ontop. It was bland and lacked heart, from a visual standpoint it was certainly beautiful at times but that's not enough.

There's countless pages of people giving reasons as to why they dislike the movie, there's a number of links to negative reviews/breakdowns that go into depth that a lot of people agree with. To willfully ignore that and claim nobody is explaining why they dislike the movie is incredibly poor form.
Eh, you're not referring to me are you? As I said, people haven't really gone into huge depth on it beyond a few little things, until your post. One member gave many posts of thoughts on it though, that's true. I even said that I didn't go into depth myself.
Well for me I enjoyed it because other than the beginning which felt a bit rushed to set things up (I'm kind of hoping when it releases the deleted scenes might stretch this part out a bit) it felt like everything fit together nicely, the characters acted in ways that made sense to me and there weren't any bits that had me rolling my eyes over how they were trying to make some kind of social commentary (e.g. the fembot in Solo, or the Casino "rich people are evil" part of TLJ)... not even the lesbian kiss? :p That took me out of the movie a little but meh it didn't 'bother me'. The "Marvel"-eque jokes were dialled back as well so I didn't find myself distracted by weirdly placed humour (e.g. the "Is that General Hux's mother?" or whatever it was in TLJ - it feels like Rian Johnson doesn't really "do" humour so they pulled in some Marvel writers to add a few jokes or something) and the humour really "felt" like Star Wars humour to me (maybe the "they fly now!" that people are latching onto in all the hate was a bit weak but it was part of a rapid action sequence so went by fairly quickly without time to hang/dwell on it) C3PO especially was perfect... agree :) The conclusion of the arc with Ben + Rey felt very satisfying and was brilliantly acted throughout the whole trilogy, particularly Adam Driver who really did such a great job... Since I had no idea the Emperor was going to show up I was immediately shocked by the mention of him in the crawl and then seeing him at the start, and I think the movie did a good job of linking things together...

There are a few bits that from a continuity/technical perspective I found myself thinking about afterwards and can pick apart a bit (and have seen people discuss most of online since):

* The "light speed skipping" - it was cool but it seems like the point of it would be to throw other ships off your trail because they can't be sure what distance you are going to travel with each "skip", and yet the TIEs seemed to be perfectly matching them anyway; I think maybe they could have made this better by having a much larger squadron of TIEs following and show more clearly that with each "skip" the amount of them that successfully followed was dropping (e.g. show some shots of TIEs emerging from a "skip" with no-one else in sight, and other shots that clearly show a before/after skip from a fixed angle where there are less TIEs remaining afterwards) They could have given more explanation but ultimately any explanation required yet more suspension of disbelief. Perhaps they thought the less it was explained the easier it was to explain... or something. Yes, it was my low point of the movie.

* How did Palps survive? Well indeed, moreover if we go that route how did so much of the shell of the Death Star survive and somehow fall into the Ocean on Endor? In ROTJ it blows up into virtually nothing. If Lucas could have had all the effects we have now maybe he'd have gone with the Death Star splitting apart and falling onto the planet, wiping out swathes of Ewoks under a huge Tsunami? (re-re-re-release anyone :p) Ultimately I am happy to just accept it; it made for an interesting final act in the story that tied things together (and frankly any other main villain could never live up to Palpatine in this series) Same.

* The ships all arriving at the end; my impression was that it wasn't easy to get to the Sith Homeworld (even if you knew the way or could track someone) - I think I'd have preferred if the Final Order fleet had launched and headed towards the civilised part of the galaxy before meeting the Resistance fleet, or something like that; and do away with the "Radar" contrivance; just say this huge fleet is heading for a bunch of planets to start destroying everything (not with a planet killing weapon, just by huge numbers of troops + ships) and have the massive Resistance fleet turn up like a blockade to hold them back from doing so The whole thing was sort of a set up for converting Rey, so the Final Order fleet wasn't really in a rush to get anywhere. There was a bit of time shenanigans with the arrival of the cavalry but that's just for pacing.

* The healing thing; I'm happy to accept it as George effectively set this up, in a way, in the prequels. My issue is just that with the big centipede/snake thing that Rey heals (and was effectively setting it up for us for later) I think perhaps she should have failed to heal it; like she gives it a good go but can't do it - almost make it seem like it's an ability she has been trying to learn but hasn't quite got it yet (and then maybe when she manages to heal Kylo/Ben we could believe that she was being helped by Leia and finally cracked it) That's a good alternative.

* The Chewie fakeout; I agree with the idea that they ought to have let his "death" sit for a while longer before revealing he survived; and maybe show more clearly that multiple ships flew off with only one being destroyed and have the characters react more like "Oh no! They got Chewie and he might have been on that ship you just blew up!!!" Similarly they could have not mentioned the R2 backup of C3POs memory to give his sacrifice a bit more weight (i.e. he let them wipe his memory with no knowledge of a possible "undo") and allow R2 to come to the rescue more unexpectedly Honestly just ****ing kill Chewie he is insanely boring, IMO :p There has also been way to much R2. Kill them all.

For the most part though I don't think any of those things took away from the story and my enjoyment of it (certainly not at the time) - it's no different to parts of the OT or Prequels that I could pick apart and come up with ways they could have been done differently

I already asked a load of questions earlier in this thread that can point to how nonsensical this film is.

Anyway, here's some more of my thoughts just in case anyone still thinks I went into this film wanting to hate it (the thought is ridiculous and frankly, insulting). Um, OK.

-The whole hide and seek with Palpatine. Just have him rock up, it would have been amazing and no need to make ridiculous plot constructs to hamstring his fleet. He was lurking there to create a trap to force Rey to kill him.
-The whole escalation of force/ghost powers. Quick reflexes, telekinesis and mentoring from beyond the grave was plenty. I was literally eyerolling at the lightsabre and necklace passing scenes and started to lose faith as to who was actually really in a scene. Yes Luke used it in TLJ but they could have kept it to just him. As I mentioned above, I quite like the link powers.
-Palpatine's death was just ridiculous. Disarm them or at least stop punching yourself in the face. Rey went super dooper pooper Saiyan - couldn't be stopped.
-The horsey woman's stupid expression. lol can't argue with that.
-The quick traitor turnaround part, totally jarred me out of the film. The ginger ninja? He was a right slug in the last film, seems natural that he would continue to be a worm / slug.
-The Power Ranger woman just happened to have that coin, was happy to hand it over and was just then necessary to rescue Chewie.
-Chewie's capture...pathetic, he does nothing. I agree but it didn't spoil the film for me.
-All the Leia parts were just bizarre and added nothing. They weren't pivotal but they didn't add nothing IMO.
-Snoke's clones hanging around...why? Just showing that the Sith had crazy cloning powerz.
-It just felt like the force power could ramp up whenever necessary to finish the plot. ROTJ has force lightning as a new power and it doesn't seem OTT. Hasn't that been the case for almost every single film in the series - the force has been involved in how it ends to a degree? Well, save for ESB.
-Ren travels to Palpatine the second time in a Tie Fighter with no hyperdrive. Seems a legit derp error.
-Wiping C3PO's memory just to bring it back again. I don't have any opinion on this, I'm neutral.

Even seeing Wedge in an X-Wing felt disappointing. The film was way too far gone. I could probably list a lot more but put enough time in here.

As I said earlier, Luke levitating his X-Wing was the best and only really good part in the film for me. I enjoyed the visuals and audio but visuals and audio alone do not make a film.

Anyway, surely nobody read all of that and, if you did, you deserve a medal for enduring my waffle :D
 
Went to see this today and have to say I was pleasantly surprised that JJ managed to salvage anything at all following the trainwreck of TLJ.
 
Watched it today. Was better than the first two films, so ended on a decent note.

However, their attempts at creating an Endgame like finish flopped. The audience has zero attachment to anyone but Rey and Ben.
 
Watched it today. Was better than the first two films, so ended on a decent note.

However, their attempts at creating an Endgame like finish flopped. The audience has zero attachment to anyone but Rey and Ben.

Kylo and Luke were the only characters I cared about in the whole trilogy.

Rey was just nobody to me as the film said she was.
 
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