Star Wars VIII : The Last Jedi [WARNING: SPOILERS]

clearly JJ/ RJ has brainstormed a whole story over 30 years about how Luke got to where he is now, but the audience hasnt, to us the last time we saw him he is an awesome jedi knight who just redeemed the unredeemable vader and witnessed the end of the the emperor / empire, 30 years pass and he is about to kill his nephew in cold blood and then sulks on his own while the galaxy falls apart
its the same problem we had with TFA, where the last thing we see is the end of the empire and a possible new republic, 30 years pass and the republic we never even saw is gone and the empire is inexplicably back and more powerful somehow,
this way of writing doesnt "bring the audience" along with it, its like watching the first and last episode of a tv series and being confused at what happened between.
look at the PT - OT, there is a gap of many years but narratively not much changes between the ROTS and ANH

overall though i was fine with luke in TLJ, just disappointed that he didnt fight, then died for nothing
 
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NewGamer11 said:
Am I the only one who isn't that bothered about Luke? I like the SW movies as an ensemble cast rather than just one character. Not bothered about what happened to him but it could have been better.
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somewhat ironically, considering it’s the one point that makes me argue, I’m not all that fussed about Luke. Even in the originals he struck me as a bit of a **** and I never believed he could fix it all himself. So the film taking that digestion sits quite comfortably with me but clearly those who other expectations of the character loathe it.

gord said:
That didn't sit right with me either. Luke, the son that believed in a shred of good remaining in one of the most villainous villains, seemingly ready to execute his nephew at the first sign of the dark side affecting him. I feel like Luke's post-ROTJ past really needed more expansion, something to attach more emotion and understanding as to how Ben was influenced by the dark side and how Luke tried to stop it before resorting to killing him.
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perhaps I only picked it up so well on the second viewing but Luke does explain it all. Succinctly; he criticises Jedi for being arrogant fools, acknowledges that he to showed such traits, admits he didn’t know how to deal with failure and then over reacted. His self imposed exile was all because of the mistakes that he himself narrates as a form of self punishment for being a complete A hole and realising that he isn’t the god like figure his friends and allies have built him up to be.

Whether or not that is put in there as a deliberate subversion to throw long terms fans off is a separate debate but it was well explained.
 
I guess what really narks me about it (aside from the attempted humour) was all of the "let's move on" cues.

"Let the past die, kill it if you have to" - Kylo
"That's a cheap move" - R2 displaying Leia from Ep4
"We are, what they grow beyond" Ghost Yoda

No, I don't want to forget it all. Sure, move the franchise on, build new characters, but you don't need to reiterate and reinforce this throughout the movie for me thanks. I like my old characters, and I like them revered and respected.
 
well technically luke died buying time for a bunch of dumbasses and his sister to get out of a cliché back door, it was rubbish but it used kylo's hate to blind him. I guess it made a bit of sense all be it a cop out and very non what we know of the force.
 
kitkat9933 said:
I have a feeling that Luke isn't dead in the traditional sense and will still be part of the next film. Read somewhere online that Mark Hamil has a decent size fee for episode 9 still.
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Not really talking about that as such mate, but rather his entire characterisation throughout. Totally contradictory to the Luke we knew previously. Of course, I understand that it is 30 years later, a lot has happened to him etc. But it was totally not the same character that Lucas had created.
 
No1newts said:
perhaps I only picked it up so well on the second viewing but Luke does explain it all. Succinctly; he criticises Jedi for being arrogant fools, acknowledges that he to showed such traits, admits he didn’t know how to deal with failure and then over reacted. His self imposed exile was all because of the mistakes that he himself narrates as a form of self punishment for being a complete A hole and realising that he isn’t the god like figure his friends and allies have built him up to be.

Whether or not that is put in there as a deliberate subversion to throw long terms fans off is a separate debate but it was well explained.
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I was trying to think back to his explanation parts, but they just didn't hold that much gravitas for me to remember. I had originally written that the explanation needed to be much more visual. The flashback to him and Ben and some dead students laid across the lawn was ok, but it's not enough to reinforce the psychological turmoil that Luke apparently has gone through to make him think that isolating himself is the best action.
 
Heisenberg said:
What a complete load of tosh. They could have had Luke disengaged from the force but to have him as a hermit who it transpires was ready to kill his nephew goes so far against the character we got to know previously.
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it doesn’t at all. Kid who isn’t deified by half the galaxy as a great saviour. This is a kid who has shown to be arrogant as **** in empire and return. He then goes away thinking he is the **** and thinks he can train up the next generation despite his own issues and the fact he had no real training. It is absolutely no shock at all he then loses his **** when he realises he can’t deal with a problem. He gets angry (as he did in empire and return) the fact he redeems himself and tries to stop the act but it is all misunderstood by Ben was brilliantly executed and pretty heart rending in terms of this path is set off by his arrogance and a misunderstanding.

He was/is flawed and it makes sense if you look at it objectively though I do appreciate some find it hard as people genuinely love the character.
 
If the film had cut ten minutes of heist crap out of it and added ten minutes of explanation flash backs I think it would have lost half of its criticism. At least from me.
 
gord said:
I was trying to think back to his explanation parts, but they just didn't hold that much gravitas for me to remember. I had originally written that the explanation needed to be much more visual. The flashback to him and Ben and some dead students laid across the lawn was ok, but it's not enough to reinforce the psychological turmoil that Luke apparently has gone through to make him think that isolating himself is the best action.
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to be fair I agree they could have spent more time on that and less time on the BS Finn story. Would have been much enjoyable and informative but to be fair to the director he did get the information out there.
 
Efour said:
well technically luke died buying time for a bunch of dumbasses and his sister to get out of a cliché back door, it was rubbish but it used kylo's hate to blind him. I guess it made a bit of sense all be it a cop out and very non what we know of the force.
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Yes but he didn't even tell anyone he was creating a diversion. The entire plan was reliant on Poe having a eureka moment and thinking "hey perhaps he is creating a diversion, that must mean there is another way out". If they needed to use exposition like that to spell it out, have Luke very clearly relay that information to Leia. The force has told him there is a hidden exit and he will stall the enemy forces to give them time to escape. The way it was handled could have just as easily have seen the rebels stand there watching until Rey had discovered that Luke wasn't actually there and moved in to slaughter them all.
 
I think people are letting the perfect, deity-like Luke Skywalker from the old Extended Universe distort the actual canon story of Luke. He was always a very flawed creature and trained to be a weapon rather than an actual jedi. it's no wonder he failed to train others
 
Shamikebab said:
I think people are letting the perfect, deity-like Luke Skywalker from the old Extended Universe distort the actual canon story of Luke. He was always a very flawed creature and trained to be a weapon rather than an actual jedi. it's no wonder he failed to train others
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+1
 
No1newts said:
it doesn’t at all. Kid who isn’t deified by half the galaxy as a great saviour. This is a kid who has shown to be arrogant as **** in empire and return. He then goes away thinking he is the **** and thinks he can train up the next generation despite his own issues and the fact he had no real training. It is absolutely no shock at all he then loses his **** when he realises he can’t deal with a problem. He gets angry (as he did in empire and return) the fact he redeems himself and tries to stop the act but it is all misunderstood by Ben was brilliantly executed and pretty heart rending in terms of this path is set off by his arrogance and a misunderstanding.

He was/is flawed and it makes sense if you look at it objectively though I do appreciate some find it hard as people genuinely love the character.
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It says it all to me that Mark Hamill said to the writer that he fundamentally disagrees with everything they have done with Luke. This is the guy who played the character and he thinks it's an incorrect direction for them to take.
 
Mark Hamill doesn't necessarily know best just because he played him. George Lucas created jedi and he thought midichlorians were a good idea.
 
In the sense it was a battle on a planet yes. But nothing happened the same, the setting was different and the circumstances (rebels trying to organise an evacuation instead of running to the base to try and contact allies) were all completely different
 
Shamikebab said:
I think people are letting the perfect, deity-like Luke Skywalker from the old Extended Universe distort the actual canon story of Luke. He was always a very flawed creature and trained to be a weapon rather than an actual jedi. it's no wonder he failed to train others
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In what way has he always been a very flawed creature out of interest? He is a guy who in Empire cuts short his training to help his friends. He then gets the bombshell that Vader is father. Next we see him rescuing another friend in RotJ. He then goes to face his father and the emperor in the hope that he senses good in his father and he can be turned. He is obviously successul in redeeming his father. Fast forward to now and we get the revelation that a little while later he had completely changed character and was ready to murder his nephew in his sleep as he felt a little darkness inside him. C'mon if that isn't a complete change in character then nothing is.
 
Heisenberg said:
It says it all to me that Mark Hamill said to the writer that he fundamentally disagrees with everything they have done with Luke. This is the guy who played the character and he thinks it's an incorrect direction for them to take.
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So what? With all due respect to him (I like the bloke and the fact he had had a career resurrection of sorts the last 10 years is great) he isn’t the writer and is also probably heavily emotionally invested in what the character is.

To be fair it’s a pointless argument as I don’t expect to win around any of those who are heavily invested in Luke so we can round all day with this argument and neither of us will Be satisfied :p
 
ThundyCat said:
Anyone else think the final battle scene on the salt plains was a ripoff from the the opening scene on Hoth in the ESB.
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I didn't mind the fact we were having a battle on salt flats, but I audibly groaned at the lickity salt trooper, "Pah.. salt". No! Don't explain salt flats to me. If my kid needs to ask why the snow is bleeding then I'll bloody well explain the concept of salt flats to my child.
 
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