Star Wars VIII : The Last Jedi [WARNING: SPOILERS]

No1newts · 18 Dec 2017 at 17:20

Heisenberg said:
In what way has he always been a very flawed creature out of interest? He is a guy who in Empire cuts short his training to help his friends. He then gets the bombshell that Vader is father. Next we see him rescuing another friend in RotJ. He then goes to face his father and the emperor in the hope that he senses good in his father and he can be turned. He is obviously successul in redeeming his father. Fast forward to now and we get the revelation that a little while later he had completely changed character and was ready to murder his nephew in his sleep as he felt a little darkness inside him. C'mon if that isn't a complete change in character then nothing is.

or it can be equally interpreted he arrogantly ignored the advice of his master to hare off after his friends. Arguably if he had completed his training he would have been better prepared to face the task of training people.

In return he lost his **** fighting Vader showing he is not “balanced” as a Jedi should be, he can be influenced by the dark side still in a similar manner to his father.

He does not necesssroly redeem his father. Vader turns back but he didn’t thrn back because of a nuanced argument he reacted to an extreme situation of his son being murdered. This wasn’t exactly Luke’s plan.

Same situation, different interpretation but equally plausible and is entirely in character with his actions in the future.

Five.Stars · 18 Dec 2017 at 17:24

Shamikebab said:
In the sense it was a battle on a planet yes. But nothing happened the same, the setting was different and the circumstances (rebels trying to organise an evacuation instead of running to the base to try and contact allies) were all completely different

It was almost identical. Even the setting, they had to have some random guy declare "It's salt" to tell us that it was indeed salt and not snow.

Shamikebab · 18 Dec 2017 at 17:28

Five.Stars said:
It was almost identical. Even the setting, they had to have some random guy declare "It's salt" to tell us that it was indeed salt and not snow.

Really, there were speeders towing cables around AT-AT's were there? Luke grappling up to an AT-AT to cut into it and disable it was there? The only similarity was it was a battle on a planet, with some AT-AT's which given it was the same force is hardly unreasonable. Even the speeders were nothing alike, the ones in ESB were able to fly and leave the surface.

Heisenberg · 18 Dec 2017 at 17:30

No1newts said:
or it can be equally interpreted he arrogantly ignored the advice of his master to hare off after his friends. Arguably if he had completed his training he would have been better prepared to face the task of training people.

In return he lost his **** fighting Vader showing he is not “balanced” as a Jedi should be, he can be influenced by the dark side still in a similar manner to his father.

He does not necesssroly redeem his father. Vader turns back but he didn’t thrn back because of a nuanced argument he reacted to an extreme situation of his son being murdered. This wasn’t exactly Luke’s plan.

Same situation, different interpretation but equally plausible and is entirely in character with his actions in the future.

There was nothing arrogant about the way he went against his masters wishes. He pleaded with them that he had to at least try and save his friends. He was willing to die for his friends. He was also ready to die in an attempt to redeem his father. He knew if his father did not help him he was walking to his death. Seems family and friends are deeply important to Luke. Now we get an explanation that he is willing to murder his nephew, son of his twin Sister and best friend. Can you really not see anything wrong with that??

MissChief · 18 Dec 2017 at 17:34

Luke sensed Smoke and the dark side in Ben/Kylo and didn'[ want that to happen again after seeing the misery it caused and knowing the effect it would have had on Hand and Leia. It's also worth remembering that he realised the error of his ways and stopped short, only for Kylo, no doubt influenced by Snoke, to turn on him.

No1newts · 18 Dec 2017 at 17:35

Heisenberg said:
There was nothing arrogant about the way he went against his masters wishes. He pleaded with them that he had to at least try and save his friends. He was willing to die for his friends. He was also ready to die in an attempt to redeem his father. He knew if his father did not help him he was walking to his death. Seems family and friends are deeply important to Luke. Now we get an explanation that he is willing to murder his nephew, son of his twin Sister and best friend. Can you really not see anything wrong with that??

No, but we quite clearly have different interpretations of how Luke acted and his motivations for doing so.

Five.Stars · 18 Dec 2017 at 17:37

MissChief said:
Luke sensed Smoke and the dark side in Ben/Kylo and didn'[ want that to happen again after seeing the misery it caused and knowing the effect it would have had on Hand and Leia. It's also worth remembering that he realised the error of his ways and stopped short, only for Kylo, no doubt influenced by Snoke, to turn on him.

What kind of effect do you think having their brother/ brother-in-law murder their only son would have had on them?

Five.Stars · 18 Dec 2017 at 17:38

No1newts said:
No, but we quite clearly have different interpretations of how Luke acted and his motivations for doing so.

His motivations for travelling to Bespin? I am interested what you think his motivations were, if not to save his friends?

Shamikebab · 18 Dec 2017 at 17:39

Luke even tried to kill Vader in ROTJ before stopping just short and controlling himself. Sounds pretty similar to me.

CaptainRAVE · 18 Dec 2017 at 17:39

Gerard said:
Anyone else think the final battle scene on the salt plains was a ripoff from the the opening scene on Hoth in the ESB.

I liked it.

what I didn't notice was that Luke didn't disturb the salt. Actually quite clever since he wasn't there. Plus he had his blue light sabre and was younger/thinner as kylo would have known him.

Also...

nope

And

nope

But most importantly,

nope

Because

nope

Yes,

i am tired of these stupid tags. The 'spoilers' are everywhere now anyway.

Heisenberg · 18 Dec 2017 at 17:39

No1newts said:
No, but we quite clearly have different interpretations of how Luke acted and his motivations for doing so.

Go on, what were his motivations in Empire and RotJ? I honestly didn't think there could be different interpretations since it's pretty much spelled out in his dialogue what his intentions and motivations are.

Shamikebab · 18 Dec 2017 at 17:42

CaptainRAVE said:
I liked it.

what I didn't notice was that Luke didn't disturb the salt. Actually quite clever since he wasn't there. Plus he had his blue light sabre and was younger/thinner as kylo would have known him.

I came out of the film wondering why Luke's saber wasn't green. Then realised it was probably the mental image of him holding Anakin's saber against Kylo that he was going for, that was a neat touch.

ianh · 18 Dec 2017 at 17:44

I quite liked this video on Mark Hamills take on his storyline when he first saw Rian's plan for Luke -

Five.Stars · 18 Dec 2017 at 17:45

Make no mistake here, the Luke we saw in the original trilogy ran to an almost certain death simply because he couldn't bare to sit and do nothing whilst his friends were killed. That was his one and only motivation. The Luke we are treated to here, is told by Rey and Chewie about his oldest friend being murdered, his sister being in grave danger and he makes the exact opposite choice. He effectively turns his back on it all. Sorry, that is simply not the Luke Skywalker we saw previously, regardless of what went down between him and Ben Solo.

Shamikebab · 18 Dec 2017 at 17:48

You think Luke would want to face Leia after helping turn her child into a monster that murdered the other students and his father? You can't see why after that happens he might think they're better off without him? He even says he's gone there to die. He thinks he's failed everyone that trusted in the great Luke Skywalker.

Safetytrousers · 18 Dec 2017 at 17:49

Heisenberg said:
Now we get an explanation that he is willing to murder his nephew, son of his twin Sister and best friend. Can you really not see anything wrong with that??

In ROTJ we can see Luke's lapse into impulses of the Dark Side ('feel the hatred..') and previously 'he has too much of his father in him'. He has the example of the way Obi Wan's protégé turned into the grand scourge of the galaxy. I don't see anything implausible in Luke's action.

Five.Stars · 18 Dec 2017 at 17:51

Shamikebab said:
You think Luke would want to face Leia after helping turn her child into a monster that murdered the other students and his father? You can't see why after that happens he might think they're better off without him? He even says he's gone there to die. He thinks he's failed everyone that trusted in the great Luke Skywalker.

To save her life, yes I think he would have. In fact, I am certain he would have, which makes the direction they went utterly bizarre!

Heisenberg · 18 Dec 2017 at 17:55

Safetytrousers said:
In ROTJ we can see Luke's lapse into impulses of the Dark Side ('feel the hatred..') and previously 'he has too much of his father in him'. He also has the example of the way Obi Wan's protégé turned into the grand scourge of the galaxy. I don't see anything implausible in Luke's action.

So rather than talk him round and help him fight the urge to the dark side, he is just gonna murder him in his sleep lol. Exactly what Luke from the original trilogy would have done :rolleyes:

doodah · 18 Dec 2017 at 17:56

Definitely would have been more satisfying if Holdo or Acbar had done the light speed ram.

ianh · 18 Dec 2017 at 17:56

Safetytrousers said:
In ROTJ we can see Luke's lapse into impulses of the Dark Side ('feel the hatred..'). He also has the example of the way Obi Wan's protégé turned into the grand scourge of the galaxy. I don't see anything implausible in Luke's action. And if I remember rightly in Luke's version he changed his mind about carrying out the killing.

He was seconds away from murdering a child in their sleep! The fact he even "thought" about it for a split second is NOT who Luke is. In ROJT he felt how strong the dark side was and decided he'd rather give up his own life than turn to it yet now he's gone all "Anakin" and wanted to kill a child who, even worse, was also his nephew and got so far as to actually fire up his lightsabre to deliver the killing blow! It's not like he had a fleeting thought about it and pushed the thought back, he'd already made his mind up that he Luke Bloody Skywalker, was going to kill his own nephew - does that sound like the Luke of Star Wars, the moral heart of the films????