Star Wars VIII : The Last Jedi [WARNING: SPOILERS]

Steampunk said:
I'm not so sure. I think Johnson has broken any story arc. With the problems reported over the Han Solo film, I think that Disney has lost their way. Like DC, they are looking at the success of Marvel's MCU and are trying to replicate it, but failing to understand the source material. They've let directors come in and mess about with everything, even though there is a store of background material to take from.

Marvel has fought hard for their corner and really seem to understand their characters and take from the comics canon that has been build up over decades. Their independence and insistence on doing movies the way they've been going has proven successful. Yet when Disney/Lucasfilm throw out all the previous canon and Kasdan scripts and let and incoming director do his own thing, we get TLJ.
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I don't like the speculate, so will see what happens in a couple of years' time.
 
Raymond Lin said:
Heard it on the Kermode and Mayo show which I think is off reddit.

This is Star Wars fans in a nutshell. :D

"To help JJ plan the next film here is the the perfect formula.

Make it the same as the original trilogy, but also make it different. But don’t change anything, make sure to include surprises but not surprises we don’t want, in fact, avoid surprises but don’t rehash anything, also don’t try something new because we won’t like that. Make sure we do justice to the cast but we don’t say how. Make sure we get it right. I want it exactly the way I want it but just a bit different, also the same. Make sure we know the backstory to all the characters, even the incidental ones because we are all speculating and you better be reading my mind but leave it mysterious at the same time. No CGI, keep it practical. Make sure to expand the universe like the Prequel did, you know, using CGI. Also don’t do anything the Prequels did, or the Force Awakens, or the original Trilogy but make it like those films too. Give it some humour but don’t make it too funny. Show us some new force powers but not the ones we haven’t seen before because new powers are ridiculous. Don’t kill anyone, it betrays my childhood but also make it unpredictable by killing off a few characters.

Clear? Good."
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Yup. That about sums it up. Rehash the same old plot(s) but make it a bit different and add new characters that parallel the old and plots - emperor, sorry Snoke, tries to turn Luke, sorry Rey - make Dark Vader, sorry the Other Guy - turn against him. Except this time give it an added twist that Other Guy kills the Emperor, sorry Snoke instead.

Luke, Sorry Rey is now the Last Jedi. Etc. Etc.

I can imagine in another generation's time exactly the same plots being rehashed all over again.... seriously, when did big Studios becomes so risk averse to new ideas? You can almost imagine the boardroom discusions:

"Lets remake it but not make it so different that we risk alienation/flop. Stick with tried and tested formula. Wait for the money to roll in! All agreed? Good."
 
..checks that spoilers are allowed now...

Kylo Ren left Luke's Jedi training camp with several other trainees. Where did they go? Maybe the situation is reversed now with many Sith and only a couple of Jedi (Rey and ?)
 
I've watched TFA around six times, maybe seven and it really isn't that great of a film. Daisy Ridley is poor at the beginning and only gets slightly better towards the end, Poe is, well, Poe and Fin just seems like a write in. It doesn't really stand up to repeated viewing. Now I've only watched TLJ once and enjoyed it. Sure there were a few hokey moments like Space Leia and I agree that Fin's trek to the gambling planet was completely unrelated and felt like it had been written for the additional Chinese market interest and him to do, but, IMO, it was a better film than TFA, but I will watch it again a few more times for my overall and complete opinion.

Ridley is far better in this film comparted to TFA, as is Adam Driver and I loved the Forceapp talks they had. They seem linked in some way, I'm not sure any previous unrelated Jedi have been able to communicate so freely with each other in the past but Johnson has played it rather hard and loose with established canon.
 
Blackjack Davy said:
Yup. That about sums it up. Rehash the same old plot(s) but make it a bit different and add new characters that parallel the old and plots - emperor, sorry Snoke, tries to turn Luke, sorry Rey - make Dark Vader, sorry the Other Guy - turn against him. Except this time give it an added twist that Other Guy kills the Emperor, sorry Snoke instead.

Luke, Sorry Rey is now the Last Jedi. Etc. Etc.

I can imagine in another generation's time exactly the same plots being rehashed all over again.... seriously, when did big Studios becomes so risk averse to new ideas? You can almost imagine the boardroom discusions:

"Lets remake it but not make it so different that we risk alienation/flop. Stick with tried and tested formula. Wait for the money to roll in! All agreed? Good."
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Did you read it properly I wonder? It's satire of the fans attitude, not the movie studio.
 
Nitefly said:
I feel the opposite - TFA was, as Easyrider said all along (notoriously!), a total rehash of the original film. By comparison, TLJ was much ‘fresher’ and I was genuinely intrigued as to where it was going. I didn’t get any real sense of intrigue with TFA. Loved it in the cinema but I didn’t make it through the the second time at home. I’m intrigued to see how I find TLJ at home.

The ‘plot holes’ in TLJ are overstated, save for the legitimate point of ‘why didn’t they get another ship to light speed ahead to be in front of the rebels?’ - you can make up reasons to cover this but on face value it is kind of goofy, I concede.
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well said, TFA is a joke. a remake. no ideas nothing!
 
In my opinion both TFA and TLJ are extreme opposites with TFA being to similar to the originals and TLJ being way to different and crapping all over what has come before it.

Both have some good bits and some very poor bits but the problem is I (and please keep in mind I am talking about what I wanted here and not trying to put my opinion across as what everyone should want!) wanted something in-between, something that connected with and stayed in line with the what had come before it in regards to legends and rules for how things work in the SW universe but at the same time introduce new characters and stories to push the whole thing forward.

Maybe that's just asking for to much... :(
 
Listening to a pre-Christmas Kermode and Mayo on my way to work this morning and they mentioned something interesting.

Simon Mayo's brother (who didn't like it at all), watched it a second time to re-affirm what he hated about it, and ended up really enjoying it as his pre-conceptions about how the movie should have been were already shattered and he could enjoy it for what it was.

So my questions is to the posters here that absolutely hate it - Have any of you seen it a second time?
 
VincentHanna said:
Listening to a pre-Christmas Kermode and Mayo on my way to work this morning and they mentioned something interesting.

Simon Mayo's brother (who didn't like it at all), watched it a second time to re-affirm what he hated about it, and ended up really enjoying it as his pre-conceptions about how the movie should have been were already shattered and he could enjoy it for what it was.

So my questions is to the posters here that absolutely hate it - Have any of you seen it a second time?
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No, I'd rather not boost ticket sales any more than needs be and I saw TFA twice in cinema and a few times after. I didn't hate TLJ, it was at best a 'meh'. Some terrible bits, destroying what I've loved for years and some cool bits thrown in to ease the pain.
 
VincentHanna said:
So my questions is to the posters here that absolutely hate it - Have any of you seen it a second time?
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I've seen it three times. Second time around I've noticed things that my mind wiped out (in trauma ;) ) the first time around - the broken "sci fi physics": Paige lying in the open underbelly of a bomber in space, without the blue hue of a force field and dropping lines of bombs, as if in galaxy far far away gravity existed in space and decompression didn't, Leia Poppins actually not going through the air lock but opening the hatch and no one from the crowd rushing in to help her getting vacuum sucked out through the open door, the already mentioned in this thread mechanical hand disappearing with Luke, Skyping fighting Maz being filmed from multiple angles with editing cuts and such cowdunk. Then third time around I've noticed most of the glitches in McGuffin logics - both ones mentioned by many youtubers and some of my own - the holo-delay - as in holographic Luke handing holographic dice pendant to Leia, that then gets picked up by Kylo only for them to convenient-plot-delay dematerialise long after Luke's death, or Kylo getting the last ForceTime™ with Rey as she boards Millennium Falcon outside despite Snoke being long dead and so on...
 
I'm trying to recall.

Isn't the last 'Forcetime' similar to Luke/Leia talking in ESB? i.e they are just talking to each others minds, rather than appearing in front of each other as before?
 
The Running Man said:
I liked it. Sure not perfect but entertaining none the less.
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Shut up man, just shut up.
You were supposed to go into the film expecting to know exactly what was going to happen and then, when it didn't go that way, you were supposed to moan and complain - real tears you understand, enough to salt those plains.
If you could go and find the online petition, the one that is "calling for Episode 8 to be totally re-shot and removed from cannon" (yes, really) and sign it - just to get over how upset/crying/suicidal you are over all this.
You are impressing nobody with you "Yer, I thought it was OK" because all you're doing is agreeing with the majority of the people who watched the film and we all know that being in the vocal minority is the correct place to be.
 
VincentHanna said:
So my questions is to the posters here that absolutely hate it - Have any of you seen it a second time?
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I watched it a second time just before Christmas and I'll admit I enjoyed it the second time when I watched it as just a form of entertainment. When I think about it as a follow on from TFA/a Star Wars film I think it's terrible but as a film to just sit down and watch it was enjoyable.
 
v0n said:
I've seen it three times. Second time around I've noticed things that my mind wiped out (in trauma ;) ) the first time around - the broken "sci fi physics": Paige lying in the open underbelly of a bomber in space, without the blue hue of a force field and dropping lines of bombs, as if in galaxy far far away gravity existed in space and decompression didn't, Leia Poppins actually not going through the air lock but opening the hatch and no one from the crowd rushing in to help her getting vacuum sucked out through the open door, the already mentioned in this thread mechanical hand disappearing with Luke, Skyping fighting Maz being filmed from multiple angles with editing cuts and such cowdunk. Then third time around I've noticed most of the glitches in McGuffin logics - both ones mentioned by many youtubers and some of my own - the holo-delay - as in holographic Luke handing holographic dice pendant to Leia, that then gets picked up by Kylo only for them to convenient-plot-delay dematerialise long after Luke's death, or Kylo getting the last ForceTime™ with Rey as she boards Millennium Falcon outside despite Snoke being long dead and so on...
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I don't disagree with some of what you say though I don't think the broken physics of the bombs and the Rey/Kylo at the end are actual problems. The shield - I know the battle droids and personal shields appear blue but I don't ever remembering seeing a ship with a blue shield. I don't even remember seeing the capital ship with one (though you know it is there by where the canon shots 'splash' against it). That could just be my memory however turning to the dropping, it isn't hard to imagine that being in space where, as you allude to, there is little gravity that bombing ships would have some sort of launching mechanism to push the bombs out of the ship. It isn't said either way but equally nothing is ever said about how blasters, shields, FTL drives etc. work, I don't even remember the OT mentioning how lightsabers work either - we just know they do. Further to that I think it would be a pretty mundane and pedantic part of the movie to actually point out that bombs are 'launched' rather than 'dropped'.

The ForceTime with Rey and Kylo at the end - It is open to interpretation but I took that to be more of a Vader "I sense something, a presence I haven't felt in a long time" rather than a full blown ForceTime that Snoke had set up.
 
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