Subaru-powered Toyota FT-86 gets closer to production...

Siliconslave · 6 Dec 2011 at 11:26

Pistonheads are loving it too (link) sounds like to just go by the stats is to totally miss the point:

The GT 86 is the sort of car that restores your faith in the world. It feels fantastically intuitive on the track, with the purity and transparency of an early MX-5 but sharper and lower in inertia. In fact I can't think of another car that has felt this good, this all-involving in years outside the realms of Caterhams and Elises, yet this one has a roof and you can use it for any journey you like.

If you want something to brag about over a pint then yes, the 370Z or a tuned 10year old car will (unsurprisingly) give you more power, but its sounding like its a very well sorted car to drive.

ubersonic · 6 Dec 2011 at 11:31

On the plus side in 10 years time these should be bargains for the money as they should be very reliable, and once they hit the £2-3k bracket roll on the good times

sigma · 6 Dec 2011 at 11:33

I'm under no illusion that power is everything.

Kenai said:
It won't stop those people being uninformed muppets who have completely missed the point of the car.

I thought the problem was that the mainstream market is mainly number/performance driven. Perhaps I am wrong.

200bhp in a light car with great handling should be pretty good for most enthusiasts, even more so if they release higher performance models. I'd imagine that 90% of people who will be purchasing these new will have differing views though? I mean it's hardly an amazing looking car that will attract random, non-performance demanding people to it. How do the figures compare to most hot hatches?

ubersonic said:
On the plus side in 10 years time these should be bargains for the money as they should be very reliable, and once they hit the £2-3k bracket roll on the good times

Depends how many they sell I guess? Not seen a huge amount of 370zs about.

Kenai · 6 Dec 2011 at 11:33

ubersonic said:
The problem is the point is to try and recreate the magic of a car from a quarter of a century ago which sounds good but with only 197bhp its a high 20 something thousand pound car that (apart from running costs) appears no better on paper than an RX-8 and from a £ per fun pov looks to be out gunned by tuned S14's or stock S15's.

I don't think its people on this forum who have missed the point I think its Toyota.

If fun boils down to how much power your car has then like I say, you've missed the point of this car entirely and you'll be entirely more happy with your 10 year old turbocharged Nissan with too much power.

sigma said:
I thought the problem was that the mainstream market is mainly number/performance driven. Perhaps I am wrong.

200bhp in a light car with great handling should be pretty good for most enthusiasts, even more so if they release higher performance models. I'd imagine that 90% of people who will be purchasing these new will have differing views though? I mean it's hardly an amazing looking car that will attract random, non-performance demanding people to it. How do the figures compare to most hot hatches?

I may be wrong but the MX-5 has essentially created a legacy from being a better car than paper stats would imply, there is certainly the market out there for cars that are more than just POWER.

Comparing figures, again, is to miss the point of this car. It probably won't out drag a Golf GTI from the lights, it's not meant to, it's meant to be an incredibly enjoyable drivers car, not a spreadsheet of impressive numbers.

ubersonic · 6 Dec 2011 at 11:39

Kenai said:
If fun boils down to how much power your car has then like I say, you've missed the point of this car entirely and you'll be entirely more happy with your 10 year old turbocharged Nissan with too much power.

I think you misread my post, power isn't the most important thing but it does help to have a bit more than the coupés of the early 1990's (like FTO, Prelude, S13). No doubt this will be a great car in spite of being underpowered but £28k for a car that's as good as an RX8? I think id just buy the RX8 rebuild the engine and pocket the change.

And you missed the point about the Nissan's, I wasn't just talking about power with "tuned" I meant handling/etc too. this car is aimed at a niche market and when it comes in £20k+ more expensive than alternatives (yes a 10 year old car is an alternative when it has the same features/performance) potential buyers will decay further.

sigma · 6 Dec 2011 at 11:43

Kenai said:
I may be wrong but the MX-5 has essentially created a legacy from being a better car than paper stats would imply, there is certainly the market out there for cars that are more than just POWER.

Comparing figures, again, is to miss the point of this car. It probably won't out drag a Golf GTI from the lights, it's not meant to, it's meant to be an incredibly enjoyable drivers car, not a spreadsheet of impressive numbers.

The Mx-5 has many years of sales behind it though, it has a reputation.

I'd hazard a guess that most new buyers, especially in the current climate, won't know what an AE86 is.

I'm not missing the point of the car (I've stated that several times now), you're missing my point regarding the potential new buyers of these cars.

Kenai · 6 Dec 2011 at 11:49

sigma said:
The Mx-5 has many years of sales behind it though, it has a reputation.

I'd hazard a guess that most new buyers, especially in the current climate, won't know what an AE86 is.

I'm not missing the point of the car (I've stated that several times now), you're missing my point regarding the potential new buyers of these cars.

That reputation didn't just spring up out of thin air though did it? It garnered that reputation through it's own abilities. There is a market for pretty looking, fun, reasonably quick sports cars, that is the point. The common man on the street isn't overly bothered by 0-60 times that rival old Ferraris.

You can say 'im not missing the point' as many times as you like but when you're sat wanting to compare the paper stats to hot hatches, I really can't help but feel you have missed it.

sigma · 6 Dec 2011 at 11:55

Kenai said:
The common man on the street isn't overly bothered by 0-60 times that rival old Ferraris.

Hmm, I'm not sure I agree with that.

Kenai said:
You can say 'im not missing the point' as many times as you like but when you're sat wanting to compare the paper stats to hot hatches, I really can't help but feel you have missed it.

I've highlighted the bits in bold for you here:

sigma said:
I agree with what you're saying. It won't stop people from saying it needs more power though.

sigma said:
I'm under no illusion that power is everything.

I thought the problem was that the mainstream market is mainly number/performance driven. Perhaps I am wrong.

200bhp in a light car with great handling should be pretty good for most enthusiasts, even more so if they release higher performance models. I'd imagine that 90% of people who will be purchasing these new will have differing views though? I mean it's hardly an amazing looking car that will attract random, non-performance demanding people to it. How do the figures compare to most hot hatches?

I've driven an Mx-5 and totally understand the whole idea behind it. I find the mk2 Mx-5 lacking in power though, power and handling go hand in hand, no point in having one without the other; if the opposite was true, it had crap handling but loads of power, I would say the exact same thing. Slightly different case with the GT86 thought because it has more power than the Mx-5.

Hopefully it will a) sell like hot cakes and b) come with a range of different style rear lights c) be produced with more power later on in its life-cycle and I may well be interested in one in a few years.

NeverWinter · 6 Dec 2011 at 12:19

sigma said:
c) be produced with more power later on in its life-cycle and I may well be interested in one in a few years.

Yes.

alexisonfire · 12 Dec 2011 at 18:54

While im not really a fan of the wheel choice, i can see a set of BBS CH etc really setting this car off....one in the video looks lowered too. Lovely looking car imo

ScoobyDoo69 · 12 Dec 2011 at 22:09

People can buy them already?!

That one has some mods very quickly, from what I can see: Brembos from an STi, coilovers, exhaust, who knows what else?!

What it does need however is an unequal length manifold, that thing sounds like my old Impreza Sport did.. until I put an unequal manifold on that anyway

acemastr · 12 Dec 2011 at 22:16

it just sounds like it hits the redline when it gets good

Housey · 12 Dec 2011 at 22:37

I admire the fact they've gone RWD and aimed for lightweight, that is really good but I think it needs something really high revving, like a VTec. The engine is the mundane thing on the MX5, just gets louder and louder whilst never sounding good or feeling that special.

sunny007 · 12 Dec 2011 at 22:40

I think the car will look better in flesh, then in pictures !

Uriel · 12 Dec 2011 at 22:43

If it wasn't for the Toyota badge, I'd think it was a Mazda.

Edit: actually scratch that. FT86 looked like a Mazda. GT86 looks like a Hyundai.

grudas · 12 Dec 2011 at 23:38

toyota back in the game?

DB_SamX · 13 Dec 2011 at 00:24

alexisonfire said:
While im not really a fan of the wheel choice, i can see a set of BBS CH etc really setting this car off....one in the video looks lowered too. Lovely looking car imo

I have to say, this video has made it gone up in my estimations...maybe it is the artificial photos/renders that don't make it look as goo. Not 100% sold on the look of the bonnet but nvm; do like the curves towards the back and lowered look. I think it a small rear spoiler might give it an extra edge too. Really hoping they'll offer options along those lines.

Kerming · 13 Dec 2011 at 10:05

DB_SamX said:
I have to say, this video has made it gone up in my estimations...maybe it is the artificial photos/renders that don't make it look as goo. Not 100% sold on the look of the bonnet but nvm; do like the curves towards the back and lowered look. I think it a small rear spoiler might give it an extra edge too. Really hoping they'll offer options along those lines.

I feel the same.............who ever did those renders should be dressed up as a clown as a punishment.

Malc · 14 Dec 2011 at 00:38

I'm literally frothing at the mouth with anticipation for this. It's planned in as my next car when I can pick one up just out of warrantee. I love the looks, it's standing in the market place and just it's general idea. I hope it brings Toyota into an era of making some fun cars again.

tom_nieto · 14 Dec 2011 at 02:39

I think it looks stunning from the back, but the front is definitely missing something. 200 horses is plenty for most people, I would imagine these will tune very well indeed if you were that way inclined. If the handling is as good as they say it will be an excellent package.

At 28k it's expensive. Even at 25k it's expensive IMO. If I had 25k to spend on a sporty RWD coupe it would go on a Porsche cayman S without a second thought. The 370z a close second. Only if I were commuting or doing more miles would I think of the BRZ.