Summer Transfer Window 2020/21 - Rumours & Signings *please quote sources*

[omnomnom]

That’s what I don’t understand about city. They spent a lot of money on their facilities and scouting etc and they seem to want to be Barca MK.2 yet Rosen is about the only player their academy has produced in the last 10 years. That’s something I would like to see. Homegrown player quotas.

It will bite them in the arse as they wont stick around. If your Jayden Braaf isseen as the next big thing you arent going to stick around until your 20+ to get a game. He still has a few years left but it wouldn't surprise me to see him join a rival in a year or so.

I dont think Ake is any better then what they have now so for me its pointless. Stones will probably want out and thats fair enough but surely they have someone coming through, Garcia for eg, that can fill that squad place. Awful management.

 

[Biz.Kid09]

God forbid they do any scouting or look to their youth. Is Ake any better then what they already have? Id argue no tbh.

Pep has no faith in Stones (partly because he rarely can get on the pitch), Otamendi is not getting any younger and has regressed massively and there is good talents in Harwood-Bellis and Garcia but neither are ready for 50+ games and CL opponents. I don't think you will find anyone arguing that Stones or Otamendi are better than Ake at the moment.

Ake ticks a lot of boxes and is available.

I have no doubts we will buy someone e.g. Koulibaily for the RCB slot alongside Laporte.

That’s what I don’t understand about city. They spent a lot of money on their facilities and scouting etc and they seem to want to be Barca MK.2 yet Rosen is about the only player their academy has produced in the last 10 years. That’s something I would like to see. Homegrown player quotas.

99% of players in an academy aren't going to make it in the first team, we have made tidy profits on plenty of players that have been through our academy and are now playing elsewhere. You get the odd diamond e.g Foden, TAA, Greenwood, Rashford, Mount and Tomori and so on who become first team players. By and large the academies at any top club are there to make money, if a player breaks through its a bonus.

 

[fez]

99% of players in an academy aren't going to make it in the first team, we have made tidy profits on plenty of players that have been through our academy and are now playing elsewhere. You get the odd diamond e.g Foden, TAA, Greenwood, Rashford, Mount and Tomori and so on who become first team players. By and large the academies at any top club are there to make money, if a player breaks through its a bonus.

Thats only true when you have 0 intention of playing your youngsters unless they happen to be the right age and ability when you have an injury crisis. Its no coincidence that United and Liverpool do give their youngsters a chance and both teams have far more home grown players in their first XIs than Chelsea, City and Arsenal.

United have:

Rashford, Greenwood, Williams, Lingard, McTominay, Mensah, Tuanzebe who have all played either a lot of at least a bit part role recently. You then have another 4-5 that have been given the chance like Gomes, Chong etc.

Thats not luck, that a concerted effort to progress your youth players into the first XI. Teams either do it or they don't. You can't tell me that United and Liverpool simply have way more talent in their youth setups than City who have invested massively in it over the past decade or more.

 

[Shamikebab]

Don't forget Pogba, I'd wager no top clubs have a youth academy to make money.

 

[BaZ87]

Utd signed Pogba when he was 16 years old? You can hardly class him as a product of Utd's academy.

As for the general point regarding City's academy. It's a very similar story to what we've seen at Chelsea. Both clubs invested massive amounts in their academy but it takes years for that investment to pay-off. City's Etihad campus opened less than 6 years ago - it's only going to be kids reaching 17-18 in the last couple of years that would have really benefited from City's investment in their academy and in that time they've produced two of the most exciting talents in the country.

I've no doubt that City's academy have got several Williams, Lingard, McTominay, Mensah, Tuanzebe's of this world too but because of the finances at City and the approach from the ownership, it's always going to be harder for these players to break through. City want immediate success and have the finances in place that allow them to sign tried and tested players, rather than take chances on prospects. Your Utd's and Liverpool's don't want to go out and sign squad players if they feel they can get 90% of the output from an academy player. Money is no object for City so why risk it when they can sign a safe option in Delph, Mahrez or Ake?

On the point about academies making money. The primary focus will always be to develop players for your side but I'm sure clubs have one eye on the business side of things too. You're lucky if you can bring through a player every 2-3 years that's good enough to be a squad player at a side that's aim is to challenge for the League and if you can get a genuine first team player every 10 years you've done well. Whether it's your Chelsea's and City's or your Liverpool's and Utd's, all these sides are handing out contracts to 16, 17 an 18 year olds that they know will never make it in their first team and that's because they hope they can sell them for £3-4m a few years down the line.

 

[IronSpider]

That’s what I don’t understand about city. They spent a lot of money on their facilities and scouting etc and they seem to want to be Barca MK.2 yet Rosen is about the only player their academy has produced in the last 10 years. That’s something I would like to see. Homegrown player quotas.

Who aside from one foot Rashford have united brought through that is of the class needed to be at a team like united in the last 10 years? Granted United have had a few promising players that then end up playing for a Sunderland or Arsenal. It's not like United are producing anything like the quality required since one spell nearly 20 years ago. If you were you wouldn't be paying player after player ridiculous wages.

99% of players in an academy aren't going to make it in the first team, we have made tidy profits on plenty of players that have been through our academy and are now playing elsewhere. You get the odd diamond e.g Foden, TAA, Greenwood, Rashford, Mount and Tomori and so on who become first team players. By and large the academies at any top club are there to make money, if a player breaks through its a bonus.

Exactly this, one of my colleagues has a boy that was wanted by all the top clubs, United, City, Liverpool etc. Day one at City he was told he not be playing for the first team. He would not be breaking into the first team. They were upfront with what they use the academy for, generate talent and sell on.

 

[Biz.Kid09]

Thats only true when you have 0 intention of playing your youngsters unless they happen to be the right age and ability when you have an injury crisis. Its no coincidence that United and Liverpool do give their youngsters a chance and both teams have far more home grown players in their first XIs than Chelsea, City and Arsenal.

United have:

Rashford, Greenwood, Williams, Lingard, McTominay, Mensah, Tuanzebe who have all played either a lot of at least a bit part role recently. You then have another 4-5 that have been given the chance like Gomes, Chong etc.

Thats not luck, that a concerted effort to progress your youth players into the first XI. Teams either do it or they don't. You can't tell me that United and Liverpool simply have way more talent in their youth setups than City who have invested massively in it over the past decade or more.

We have intentions of playing youngsters if they are good enough e.g. Foden and Garcia. If you are not quite good enough you have had X years of great coaching, private education (if at the right age) and probably above average wages for the time spent in the club. No doubt playing in City's academy looks good on paper for prospective moves also.

Out of that list, Rashford and Greenwood are the ones with genuine talent and ability. The others are in the squad because of years of poor transfers and squad management I would argue.

We have invested a lot of money into the academy and we have had two real breakthrough talents in Foden and Garcia. Meanwhile we have sold players such as Ihenacho, Gunn, Maffeo, Diaz, Denayer, Rekik, Lopes and others for around 75m. They are not all homegrown born in Manchester lads but they joined at a young age for practically nothing and played a few years in the U23s etc and have since moved on so its a tidy profit on the books (not take into account cost of wages and all those things)

 

[omnomnom]

Who aside from one foot Rashford have united brought through that is of the class needed to be at a team like united in the last 10 years? Granted United have had a few promising players that then end up playing for a Sunderland or Arsenal. It's not like United are producing anything like the quality required since one spell nearly 20 years ago. If you were you wouldn't be paying player after player ridiculous wages.



Exactly this, one of my colleagues has a boy that was wanted by all the top clubs, United, City, Liverpool etc. Day one at City he was told he not be playing for the first team. He would not be breaking into the first team. They were upfront with what they use the academy for, generate talent and sell on.

So what happens when you want to sign the next big thing? Jude Bellingham has gone to Dortmund because Dortmund have a history of developing their youth.

If you had a young 16 year old now having to choose between Man City and Liverpool then its a no brainier. They are choosing Liverpool all day long.

 

[omnomnom]

We have intentions of playing youngsters if they are good enough e.g. Foden and Garcia. If you are not quite good enough you have had X years of great coaching, private education (if at the right age) and probably above average wages for the time spent in the club. No doubt playing in City's academy looks good on paper for prospective moves also.

Out of that list, Rashford and Greenwood are the ones with genuine talent and ability. The others are in the squad because of years of poor transfers and squad management I would argue.

We have invested a lot of money into the academy and we have had two real breakthrough talents in Foden and Garcia. Meanwhile we have sold players such as Ihenacho, Gunn, Maffeo, Diaz, Denayer, Rekik, Lopes and others for around 75m. They are not all homegrown born in Manchester lads but they joined at a young age for practically nothing and played a few years in the U23s etc and have since moved on so its a tidy profit on the books (not take into account cost of wages and all those things)

What about the players that have left? Sancho being the key one. Instead of playing youth and saving yourselves some money you kept Zabaleta in ahead of Trippier is another example to then replace Zabaleta by spending 50mil.

Sooner or later these prospects will just go elsewhere to begin with.

 

[Biz.Kid09]

What about the players that have left? Sancho being the key one. Instead of playing youth and saving yourselves some money you kept Zabaleta in ahead of Trippier is another example to then replace Zabaleta by spending 50mil.

Sooner or later these prospects will just go elsewhere to begin with.

Sancho left, can't keep everyone. He was a cut above the other youngsters and backed himself to go to Dortmund. Fair play to him, probably the one player who has left and gone on to do well in all honesty.

Trippier, is that a serious comment?
We kept Zabaleta because he was quality, why on earth would we replace a Rb at the peak of his ability just off the back of winning a premier league title with Trippier, who was nowhere near/still nowhere near good enough to play in any City team in the past decade. We signed Sagna on a free and those two went onto win a few more trophies whilst Trippier did well at Burnley then got a move.

Then we got Walker in who again has so far given 3 very good years of service and contribution to more success. Walker won't be around forever so we have recently signed Pedro Porro and Yan Couto, two supposedly very talented RB's for about 20m combined I think so be interesting to see either makes it.

I don't think players will be turning us down that often anytime soon, we offer perks to youngsters that most clubs can't get anywhere near. If Sancho had never joined City and stayed at Watford would he now be at Dortmund, its unlikely. City gave him the platform to perform in the YCL and that was where he got really noticed. You get the odd transfer e.g. Bellingham but by and large if you join a big club at academy level you are going to end up higher up the football ladder if you don't crack the first team.

 

[sigma]

I wonder if a lot of these home grown youngsters don't make it far because they go off the rails/lazy with all the money they get? I had a quick look earlier and some clubs pay 16 year olds as much as £11k PER WEEK!

 

[Biz.Kid09]

I wonder if a lot of these home grown youngsters don't make it far because they go off the rails/lazy with all the money they get? I had a quick look earlier and some clubs pay 16 year olds as much as £11k PER WEEK!

I read a really good article recently about Michael Johnson, ex City youngster who looked like he was going all the way to the top before injuries and mental health issues meant he retired aged 23 I think it was. In Johnson's case he struggled with self esteem his whole life despite knowing he was the best footballer around and when he made it to the prem he felt he had nothing more to achieve and so when he had a few bad injuries he just didn't have the drive to come back. It is massively underestimated in my opinion just how important mental strength is when trying to make it as professional footballer or anything in life really.

I am sure there are thousands of examples of youngsters just getting lazy because of the money etc but not always the case.

 

[sigma]

I read a really good article recently about Michael Johnson, ex City youngster who looked like he was going all the way to the top before injuries and mental health issues meant he retired aged 23 I think it was. In Johnson's case he struggled with self esteem his whole life despite knowing he was the best footballer around and when he made it to the prem he felt he had nothing more to achieve and so when he had a few bad injuries he just didn't have the drive to come back. It is massively underestimated in my opinion just how important mental strength is when trying to make it as professional footballer or anything in life really.

I am sure there are thousands of examples of youngsters just getting lazy because of the money etc but not always the case.

For sure, I wonder what the stats are, regarding the reasons people fail. As you say, at the very top of most fields it can come down to the psychological differences. Some players are never the same after a serious injury, some boxers don't know when to quit or never are the same after a big KO etc.

 

[MissChief]

I read a really good article recently about Michael Johnson, ex City youngster who looked like he was going all the way to the top before injuries and mental health issues meant he retired aged 23 I think it was. In Johnson's case he struggled with self esteem his whole life despite knowing he was the best footballer around and when he made it to the prem he felt he had nothing more to achieve and so when he had a few bad injuries he just didn't have the drive to come back. It is massively underestimated in my opinion just how important mental strength is when trying to make it as professional footballer or anything in life really.

I am sure there are thousands of examples of youngsters just getting lazy because of the money etc but not always the case.

Plenty of stories of youth players getting into trouble when just playing for the U18’s, U21’s and U23’s before even playing a game for the first team. Wasn’t there some kid who got his brother stabbed in a local park or something recently? When you give someone 18 or 19 years old even £5k a week it instantly makes them rich to all their mates and the temptations involved in that all go along with it.

 

[Biz.Kid09]

For sure, I wonder what the stats are, regarding the reasons people fail. As you say, at the very top of most fields it can come down to the psychological differences. Some players are never the same after a serious injury, some boxers don't know when to quit or never are the same after a big KO etc.

Plenty of stories of youth players getting into trouble when just playing for the U18’s, U21’s and U23’s before even playing a game for the first team. Wasn’t there some kid who got his brother stabbed in a local park or something recently? When you give someone 18 or 19 years old even £5k a week it instantly makes them rich to all their mates and the temptations involved in that all go along with it.

Definitely, agree with you both. A lot of factors go into making it at the top level or indeed any level of football. Off topic for this thread but yeah its interesting none the less.

 

[BaZ87]

So what happens when you want to sign the next big thing? Jude Bellingham has gone to Dortmund because Dortmund have a history of developing their youth.

If you had a young 16 year old now having to choose between Man City and Liverpool then its a no brainier. They are choosing Liverpool all day long.

You're kidding yourself here. City, like Chelsea before, are hoovering up the majority of the best 13-16 year olds in the country. Because investments into the academy don't count towards FFP they're able to pay way in excess of what the likes of we pay. Yes, there will be some that take a more measured, long term approach but the majority will take the big pay day. I remember the stories years ago of Loftus-Cheek earning £20k per week at Chelsea before he'd even kicked a ball in their first team.

 

[BaZ87]

Birmingham have retired Bellingham's number 22 shirt following his transfer to Dortmund. Really, I'm not taking the ****.

 

[Tombstone]

For sure, I wonder what the stats are, regarding the reasons people fail. As you say, at the very top of most fields it can come down to the psychological differences. Some players are never the same after a serious injury, some boxers don't know when to quit or never are the same after a big KO etc.

I always thought that of Amir Khan, he was never the same after someone handed his arse to him.

 

[planty]

Birmingham have retired Bellingham's number 22 shirt following his transfer to Dortmund. Really, I'm not taking the ****.

Oh that is really tragic

He scored 4 goals in 44 appearances at senior level - no one wearing the number 22 will ever get close to that kind of return, rightly retired.

 

[Hive]

Birmingham have retired Bellingham's number 22 shirt following his transfer to Dortmund. Really, I'm not taking the ****.

This is so very stupid and out of left field. Bizarre!