Summer Transfer Window 22/23
- Thread starter robfosters
- Start date
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 37,804
- Location
- block 16, cell 12
Out of curiosity why would we pay 6m for Dubravka.
We can't even get a fee for Ronaldo. We didn't get a fee for our Argentinian ex keeper or Matic or Mata etc.
And surely we weren't stupid enough to loan Henderson out without inserting a call back clause, where if De Gea gets injured we can bring Hendo back?
Everything we do is catastrophically wrong just on every level.
We can't even get a fee for Ronaldo. We didn't get a fee for our Argentinian ex keeper or Matic or Mata etc.
And surely we weren't stupid enough to loan Henderson out without inserting a call back clause, where if De Gea gets injured we can bring Hendo back?
Everything we do is catastrophically wrong just on every level.
A) Players can only move clubs during transfer windows. B) I'm 99.9% sure that there's a rule preventing loans between PL clubs having any such clause that would allow him to be recalled in January.
I don't see the issue with Dubravka, reasonably cheap on the whole and an above average backup keeper.
Given the outlay for Antony and Casemiro, I can't see any other business being done now, although we need Ronaldo out and a couple more players in.
Talk of Frenkie de Jong and Osimhen for €80-100m a piece this window are just fanciful, never happening.
Given the outlay for Antony and Casemiro, I can't see any other business being done now, although we need Ronaldo out and a couple more players in.
Talk of Frenkie de Jong and Osimhen for €80-100m a piece this window are just fanciful, never happening.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 37,804
- Location
- block 16, cell 12
Aren't there special rules for Goalkeepers around both the loaning of them in exceptional circumstances and the recall of their loans?
But anyway we didn't even get a loan fee for Henderson from what I can see. So surely the economics of NOT loaning him out and keeping him at the club wpuld have been better than loaning amd then buying Dubravka plus Henderson is better?
And as for 6m is cheap.
We are going to get less for Eric Bailey and thats IF Marseille qualify for the CL which is possible. This is a player who cost us 28m- so we're going to take a 22m loss on him amd he's not 30+ either?
Caporegime
- Joined
- 9 Mar 2006
- Posts
- 58,009
- Location
- Surrey
Nick I'll give you a maths challenge. What is better, a 22m loss or a 28m loss?
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 37,804
- Location
- block 16, cell 12
Buy players who are good and have resale value.
The challenge here is for UTD to stop over paying transfer fee wise and in wages.
Look at the other top clubs in the EPL, how is it they managed to buy AND SELL players for real money?
We can't keep taking 80%+ loss or 100% losses on so many players, surely you must see this?
Player loss %
Mata 35m 100%
Matic 30m 100%
Pogba 80m 100%
Bailey 22m 80%
(Lingard) 10m?! 100%
Potential losses:
Bissaka 40m 80%
Telles 15m 100%
Ronaldo 12m 100%?
Future losses
Fred 40m 80%
Casemiro 50m 80%
There's something fundamentally wrong. You have to accept that we are a business as well as a sporting club and that these losses are not acceptable.
It's like you think you're the only person who can see this. You aren't.
But you're never happy, we've just signed Antony who is 22 but he's "too expensive".
Yes of course we need a far better scouting system and recruitment going forward, but we are where we are.
But you're never happy, we've just signed Antony who is 22 but he's "too expensive".
Yes of course we need a far better scouting system and recruitment going forward, but we are where we are.
Soldato
- Joined
- 28 Jan 2008
- Posts
- 7,263
- Location
- Leeds
Whilst i understand where Nick is coming from he appears to be forgetting the fundamental issue with those circumstances. We would have to be either...
A) Development Club - Have a business model to buy cheap, nurture talent, perform as a team (compete for titles or good runs in CL) and then sell on - think Ajax, Dortmund, RB Leipzig, Athletico etc.
B) Successful Club - sell players who have contributed to success but either seeking to leave for a boyhood dream or are being rotated out through squad development - e.g Liverpool, City, Bayern, Real.
Nick appears to be forgetting that we do not see ourselves as a development club - we want to be the place people come to play their careers, the peak, the pinnacle and we were up until Sir Alex left. And we are certainly not a successful club at the moment - our players won't have sell on value until we start being successful again.
The reality is we're going to have to buy our way out of this hole somewhat - but we have to buy well and that's going to be a balance of finding gems and nurturing them around ETH project but also buying value for money now to provide success (Casemiro/FDJ etc).
A) Development Club - Have a business model to buy cheap, nurture talent, perform as a team (compete for titles or good runs in CL) and then sell on - think Ajax, Dortmund, RB Leipzig, Athletico etc.
B) Successful Club - sell players who have contributed to success but either seeking to leave for a boyhood dream or are being rotated out through squad development - e.g Liverpool, City, Bayern, Real.
Nick appears to be forgetting that we do not see ourselves as a development club - we want to be the place people come to play their careers, the peak, the pinnacle and we were up until Sir Alex left. And we are certainly not a successful club at the moment - our players won't have sell on value until we start being successful again.
The reality is we're going to have to buy our way out of this hole somewhat - but we have to buy well and that's going to be a balance of finding gems and nurturing them around ETH project but also buying value for money now to provide success (Casemiro/FDJ etc).
The inner muppet in me thinks that United might be going massive this window because they finally have a plan for the long term and a manager they truly believe in.
If we can get FdJ in as well as Antony we would be very well placed to get top 4, spend far less next summer on a RB, GK and forward and be ready to compete for trophies again.
Thats very much wishful thinking though
- Joined
- 1 Dec 2010
- Posts
- 53,734
- Location
- Welling, London
We need players fast! Now Elneny and Partey are injured for a while and Saka is underperforming.
If we don’t get a quality CM and winger, our promising start will screech to a halt and it would be shocking incompetence from Edu and Arteta
If we don’t get a quality CM and winger, our promising start will screech to a halt and it would be shocking incompetence from Edu and Arteta
Thought we needed a DM before Elneny got injured, hopefully this will force Arsenal's hand into getting a solid DM in.
As to right mid, doesn't Vieira play on the right, sure i read he was right mid / second striker? Thought Marquinhos was a right mid too. ESR can do a job there too so don't see it as much a priority as DM.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 37,804
- Location
- block 16, cell 12
No you just need to set boundaries.
If you are going to spend 100m euros on someone he better be:
22-26 years old
Scoring 25-40 a season
Be a generational talent
If you are buying someone 29-30 years old, you don't spend more than 10-20m because it will never be recouped. We saw no one would take Mata or Matic so I presume the same will be true of a 32 year old Casemiro in 2 years time.
Sure there might be the odd exception here and there. But you can't buy a 30 year old for 60m, a 12 goal a season unproven for 99m euro and a 5ft9 defender for 55m all in the same transfer window.
Where you just let go for free:
Pogba
Matic
Mata
Lingard
Bailey 5m
Lindleoff ? I don't even know what we would get for him
It's like we saw these players leave/their values get slashed and then went out and committed the exact same mistake again 3 times. You have to learn from past mistakes.
If you are going to spend 100m euros on someone he better be:
22-26 years old
Scoring 25-40 a season
Be a generational talent
If you are buying someone 29-30 years old, you don't spend more than 10-20m because it will never be recouped. We saw no one would take Mata or Matic so I presume the same will be true of a 32 year old Casemiro in 2 years time.
Sure there might be the odd exception here and there. But you can't buy a 30 year old for 60m, a 12 goal a season unproven for 99m euro and a 5ft9 defender for 55m all in the same transfer window.
Where you just let go for free:
Pogba
Matic
Mata
Lingard
Bailey 5m
Lindleoff ? I don't even know what we would get for him
It's like we saw these players leave/their values get slashed and then went out and committed the exact same mistake again 3 times. You have to learn from past mistakes.
- Joined
- 1 Dec 2010
- Posts
- 53,734
- Location
- Welling, London
All this threads been this year is Ronaldo, FDJ and Antony lol
Why are you obsessed with money being recouped? That's often not the case with transfers at the top clubs. The huge revenues mean you can swallow losses in order to have the best players available.
Transfer fees are different these days. £50m is the old £20m. Ultimately it all comes down to how a player performs as to whether they've been worth it or not.
You've also decided that Casemiro will be useless when he's 32, there are many midfielders far beyond that age who are still great players.
Trust the process. Believe in youth etc etc.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 9 Mar 2006
- Posts
- 58,009
- Location
- Surrey
Nick go support Sevilla, Ajax or Dortmund. They're clubs that try and make money on players they buy, you'd be in heaven.
Outgoings :
Edinson Cavani
Reece Devine
Lee Grant
Ethan Laird
Dylan Levitt
Jesse Lingard
Juan Mata
Nemanja Matic
Paul McShane
D'Mani Mellor
Andreas Pereira
Paul Pogba
Connor Stanley
Martin Svidersky
Paul Woolston
Loans:
Alex Telles
Eric Bailly
Alvaro Fernandez
Dean Henderson
Dermot Mee
In:
Casemiro
Eriksen
Malacia
Martinez
Antony
Even without Ronaldo going, I'd be pretty confident from a purely financial perspective we're far better off. In terms of quality players on evidence so far, a massive improvement. Still got plenty of dead wood to shift, but good progress.
Barring another CDM, I don't really see how we could have done better so far. Very happy with this window, and there are plenty more to come.
Edinson Cavani
Reece Devine
Lee Grant
Ethan Laird
Dylan Levitt
Jesse Lingard
Juan Mata
Nemanja Matic
Paul McShane
D'Mani Mellor
Andreas Pereira
Paul Pogba
Connor Stanley
Martin Svidersky
Paul Woolston
Loans:
Alex Telles
Eric Bailly
Alvaro Fernandez
Dean Henderson
Dermot Mee
In:
Casemiro
Eriksen
Malacia
Martinez
Antony
Even without Ronaldo going, I'd be pretty confident from a purely financial perspective we're far better off. In terms of quality players on evidence so far, a massive improvement. Still got plenty of dead wood to shift, but good progress.
Barring another CDM, I don't really see how we could have done better so far. Very happy with this window, and there are plenty more to come.