Summer Transfer Window 23/24

sigma · 8 Aug 2023 at 13:22

dannyjo22 said:
I'm not sure they want that **** storm. I saw the twitter post today of him training at United and his finishing being mocked but that was just a snippet and I'm not sure he would have regressed to my standard in 18 months. I think his best option is a loan deal with United paying half his wages to see how he goes. I'm actually surprised Everton haven't come calling. Firstly they usually take United's excess old baggage and secondly the owners can't get much lower, they may as well take a punt.

He'd fit in well on Saudi (assuming what happened was true

The_One said:
people saying oh they are still together means absolutely nothing, in most cases of domestic abuse and worse the partner stays with the alledged abuser thats the whole problem with domestic abuse

True but this behaviour is probably par for the course for fotooballers. Not trying to excuse it, just saying that the football teams are probably used to dealing with it all internally, if it didn't make the news we'd be none the wiser.

Ryan Giggs has entered the chat

BaZ87 · 8 Aug 2023 at 13:22

fez said:
If Greenwood is even close to the player he was then they would take a lot of bad press over writing off that large an asset. He was probably worth close to £100m with all the silly fees being thrown about these days.

I think the bigger concern would be the team harmony. Then you are weighing up real money.

I'm not sure team harmony is much of an issue. There's been accusations against another Utd player of domestic violence and then you've got that hooligan Harry Maguire awaiting trial for smashing up half of Mykonos and beating up poor innocent policeman trying to do their job, I'm not sure anybody in the squad really cares. The issue has always been about how much negative PR Utd will get and whether that will pressure sponsors to cut ties with the club. By dragging this process out and drip feeding news to the press Utd are hoping people just forget about it and or lose interest. While some supporters will truly care, most won't - very few had issues with Utd signing Ronaldo despite a huge cloud hanging over his head and to this day Utd fans still sing about George Best despite him beating the **** out of his wife.

Martynt74 · 8 Aug 2023 at 13:27

I'd take him back, but i have the ethical stance of an absolute dirtbag.

BaZ87 · 8 Aug 2023 at 13:28

sigma said:
True but this behaviour is probably par for the course for fotooballers.

This winds me up no end. This is complete *******s. It's not par for the course for footballers to be accused of rape and domestic violence. Most footballers, like most people in any other line of work, are decent people. Due to their high profile nature, when a football does something terrible and is a ****, it attracts a lot of headline and for some reason it's fair game to label all footballers as ****s. It's like during covid where footballers were targetted for their earnings all while every other high paid industry never had a word said against them.

Ayahuasca · 8 Aug 2023 at 13:30

BaZ87 said:
This winds me up no end. This is complete *******s. It's not par for the course for footballers to be accused of rape and domestic violence. Most footballers, like most people in any other line of work, are decent people. Due to their high profile nature, when a football does something terrible and is a ****, it attracts a lot of headline and for some reason it's fair game to label all footballers as ****s. It's like during covid where footballers were targetted for their earnings all while every other high paid industry never had a word said against them.

Indeed, it seems to get applied to everything now. All politicians are the same, all owners of football clubs are just as bad as eachother as 'Mericah dropped bombs in the middle east you know so FSG and the Glazers etc are just as bad as MBS!

dannyjo22 · 8 Aug 2023 at 13:34

BaZ87 said:
I previously thought that Utd wouldn't want to PR mess than his return would bring but over the last few months they've been drip feeding local Utd journo's little updates and stories about his troubled upbringing. It feels to me like they've been testing the water to see what the reaction would be and now just slowly preparing everybody for news of his return. I hope I'm wrong but I suspect Utd will decide that a few weeks of bad press is worth it.

Yeah following Montreal is interesting to see the comparisons the other side of the pond. We have a player who when 17 showed his team mates him having sex with an 18 year old girl. Like Greenwood he's a top level prospect. Almost 3 years later and the league still haven't confirmed he eligibility to be picked or put on the roster. He removed himself from the draft and then underwent evaluation to get him help. He cannot play again until the League clear him and over there very few people want him near the team. Which TBH I found odd compared to the stuff that goes on with out players!

Or Miller who was a bully while at school and a pretty horrible ****. Boston signed him and the fans demanded he was cut and he was. I wish our fans had as much integrity.

Mitchell Miller (ice hockey) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Anyway I think that's a far better way of handling it, get the players help and the league decide if he or she is rehabilitated. Remove the onus from the clubs.

bayo000 · 8 Aug 2023 at 13:37

omnomnom said:
He was charged with attempted rape,assault and controlling behaviour.

No one is disputing that, however he's not been found guilty as the case never went to court. As I said it's a difficult situation but at the end of the day he's a free man.

fez · 8 Aug 2023 at 13:50

I don't for a second believe that footballers are like you and I in their morals or behaviour. Money and power does bad things to people and yes, the wealthier people are, the more they indulge their darker side. There are plenty of good ones but would bet that the heady combination of huge salaries, having smoke blown up your ass from an early age, limited repercussions for your actions, almost any door opening for you (and legs) along with quite a lot of spare time doesn't make for a fantastic person.

sigma · 8 Aug 2023 at 14:14

BaZ87 said:
This winds me up no end. This is complete *******s. It's not par for the course for footballers to be accused of rape and domestic violence. Most footballers, like most people in any other line of work, are decent people. Due to their high profile nature, when a football does something terrible and is a ****, it attracts a lot of headline and for some reason it's fair game to label all footballers as ****s. It's like during covid where footballers were targetted for their earnings all while every other high paid industry never had a word said against them.

Giggs, Mendy (cleared), Ched Evans (cleared?), didn't a load of Leicester players record themselves abusing women? Loads of allegations, some may be true. Who knows what else.

I think people assume that because they're highly paid sports professionals that they're upstanding members of society.

sigma · 8 Aug 2023 at 14:15

dannyjo22 said:
Yeah following Montreal is interesting to see the comparisons the other side of the pond. We have a player who when 17 showed his team mates him having sex with an 18 year old girl. Like Greenwood he's a top level prospect. Almost 3 years later and the league still haven't confirmed he eligibility to be picked or put on the roster. He removed himself from the draft and then underwent evaluation to get him help. He cannot play again until the League clear him and over there very few people want him near the team. Which TBH I found odd compared to the stuff that goes on with out players!

Or Miller who was a bully while at school and a pretty horrible ****. Boston signed him and the fans demanded he was cut and he was. I wish our fans had as much integrity.

Mitchell Miller (ice hockey) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Anyway I think that's a far better way of handling it, get the players help and the league decide if he or she is rehabilitated. Remove the onus from the clubs.

Dani Alves is current under arrest

the wopster · 8 Aug 2023 at 14:15

bayo000 said:
No one is disputing that, however he's not been found guilty as the case never went to court. As I said it's a difficult situation but at the end of the day he's a free man.

the guys as guilty as sin, we all heard the recordings and saw the pictures, the only reason he’s not been to court is because the poor girls father sold her down the river and followed the money

BaZ87 · 8 Aug 2023 at 14:18

sigma said:
Giggs, Mendy (cleared), Ched Evans (cleared?), didn't a load of Leicester players record themselves abusing women? Loads of allegations, some may be true. Who knows what else.

I think people assume that because they're highly paid sports professionals that they're upstanding members of society.

I'm not sure what your point is with those examples? And I certainly don't agree with your last sentence - footballers are continually attacked because they're footballers as you are doing now, rather than the other way around. As I mentioned, during covid it was fair game for anybody and everybody to attack footballers over their pay all while <insert any other well paid entertainer or industry> got off scott-free.

Pointing to examples of footballers that have been accused or even convicted of crimes doesn't mean footballers are all ****s. Some will be but no more or less than some politicians, bankers, builders or tesco shelf stackers are.

C Kent · 8 Aug 2023 at 14:18

sigma said:
Giggs, Mendy (cleared), Ched Evans (cleared?), didn't a load of Leicester players record themselves abusing women? Loads of allegations, some may be true. Who knows what else.

I think people assume that because they're highly paid sports professionals that they're upstanding members of society.

So you've got what 3 or 4 over the past decade that have been accused, hardly 'par the course' is it..

Robbo · 8 Aug 2023 at 14:23

The_One said:
people saying oh they are still together means absolutely nothing, in most cases of domestic abuse and worse the partner stays with the alledged abuser thats the whole problem with domestic abuse

hes a dirty **** and hope he never plays in prem again

While this is true, it further highlights the complexities of these cases. The fact is, you can't be absolutely certain what happened, nor of the context surrounding it.

We now have clubs owned by entire countries who treat women very poorly, but most of the fans turn a blind eye to it.

Plus, there's an Arsenal player who we won't name, but has faced similar accusations. I suppose you don't want him playing either.

The_One · 8 Aug 2023 at 14:24

Robbo said:
While this is true, it further highlights the complexities of these cases. The fact is, you can't be absolutely certain what happened, nor of the context surrounding it.

We now have clubs owned by entire countries who treat women very poorly, but most of the fans turn a blind eye to it.

Plus, there's an Arsenal player who we won't name, but has faced similar accusations. I suppose you don't want him playing either.

ive got an open mind regarding the arsenal player however if there had been a video like the one of greenwood then id think the same of him

Ayahuasca · 8 Aug 2023 at 14:26

The_One said:
ive got an open mind regarding the arsenal player however if there had been a video like the one of greenwood then id think the same of him

It was a deepfake, Mason is just a very misunderstood gentleman who had a rough childhood like most players from a similar background. Give him a break.

Robbo · 8 Aug 2023 at 14:32

The club have said they will make a decision before the start of the season, so that will be interesting. I would be very surprised if they terminated his contract, I suspect he'll be going out on loan somewhere.

BaZ87 · 8 Aug 2023 at 14:35

Robbo said:
The club have said they will make a decision before the start of the season, so that will be interesting. I would be very surprised if they terminated his contract, I suspect he'll be going out on loan somewhere.

The fact that he's not been convicted of anything probably means the club doesn't have grounds to terminate his deal. Either he gets loaned out or it'll be some guff about him carrying out a period of reintegration and he'll be back in the squad in a couple of months.

Robbo · 8 Aug 2023 at 14:39

BaZ87 said:
The fact that he's not been convicted of anything probably means the club doesn't have grounds to terminate his deal. Either he gets loaned out or it'll be some guff about him carrying out a period of reintegration and he'll be back in the squad in a couple of months.

I was thinking they would perhaps just pay him off. That being said, could they not argue the recording (assuming the police have verified its authenticity) falls under gross misconduct...?

sigma · 8 Aug 2023 at 14:45

BaZ87 said:
I'm not sure what your point is with those examples? And I certainly don't agree with your last sentence - footballers are continually attacked because they're footballers as you are doing now, rather than the other way around. As I mentioned, during covid it was fair game for anybody and everybody to attack footballers over their pay all while <insert any other well paid entertainer or industry> got off scott-free.

Pointing to examples of footballers that have been accused or even convicted of crimes doesn't mean footballers are all ****s. Some will be but no more or less than some politicians, bankers, builders or tesco shelf stackers are.

My original point said 'probably par for the course' at no point did I say all footballers are rapists.

I showed you other examples to show that clearly other footballers get up to dodgy stuff, and adds some weight to my comment that things like this do happen in football (and elsewhere of course) I wonder how much of it we don't hear about (just like normal life).

Either way he wasn't found guilty and is a free man as it stands.